Ukraine's European Revolution?

[CountDeMoney]

The only thing less surprising than all the usual Languish pro-Russian cocksuckery is the typical Euro-racism against Ukrainians.

I hope you all wake up with a Turk in your bed, buttfucking you Jose Ferrer-style.

Dreaming up scenarios where Russians get slaughtered by, err, someone, isn't going to get us anywhere either.

It makes me feel better.  Particularly if you're caught up in it, cossack.

[derspiess]

Dreaming up scenarios where Russians get slaughtered by, err, someone, isn't going to get us anywhere either.

Helps pass the day.

[DGuller]

Indeed leaving aside how badly and corruptly Russia has been run over the last 25 years, the Ukraine must have been run even worse to be were it is economically. 

Poor governance kills.  Russia has been lucky with their oil wealth, solvency tends to increase your margin for error, but even fucking Belarus managed twice the GDP per capita, after starting at the same level when USSR broke up.  Seriously, you don't deserve to exist when you get trounced economically by a kolkhoz director.

[DGuller]

I just am continually shocked at how toothless Ukraine is, I knew they were not on par with Russia but they literally have a military that is non-functional. I don't understand how a country that borders a Russia that has in the past invaded other enemies and even referred to Ukraine as "not a real country" could basically have a military force weaker than a big city police department in the United States.

They're dirt poor.

Poverty is a result of their dysfunction, not the cause of it. 

[Queequeg]

I just am continually shocked at how toothless Ukraine is, I knew they were not on par with Russia but they literally have a military that is non-functional. I don't understand how a country that borders a Russia that has in the past invaded other enemies and even referred to Ukraine as "not a real country" could basically have a military force weaker than a big city police department in the United States.

They're dirt poor.

The irony being that Ukrainian dirt is probably the richest in the world.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the ukrainian incompentence on display is indeed staggering.
this is what compounding errors look like.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I just am continually shocked at how toothless Ukraine is, I knew they were not on par with Russia but they literally have a military that is non-functional. I don't understand how a country that borders a Russia that has in the past invaded other enemies and even referred to Ukraine as "not a real country" could basically have a military force weaker than a big city police department in the United States.

They're dirt poor.

Poverty is a result of their dysfunction, not the cause of it.

Right, and that's why I mentioned how far Ukraine as fallen. Per capita it was basically on par with Russia when the USSR collapsed, now it is vastly poorer.

[PJL]

Indeed leaving aside how badly and corruptly Russia has been run over the last 25 years, the Ukraine must have been run even worse to be were it is economically. 

Poor governance kills.  Russia has been lucky with their oil wealth, solvency tends to increase your margin for error, but even fucking Belarus managed twice the GDP per capita, after starting at the same level when USSR broke up.  Seriously, you don't deserve to exist when you get trounced economically by a kolkhoz director.

Quite, even Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo and Macedonia are richer than Ukraine

[Syt]

ITAR-TASS:

NOVO-OGAREVO, April 14. /ITAR-TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin is watching the situation in the east of Ukraine with great alarm, presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov says.

Asked about Putin's reaction to reports coming from eastern Ukrainian regions asking the Russian president to interfere, Peskov told journalistsб "Unfortunately, many such requests, addressed personally to Putin and asking him to help, interfere in this or that form, are coming from eastern Ukraine".

"The Russian president is watching the development of the situation in these regions with great alarm," Peskov said.

"That's all I can say on the issue," the spokesman added.

[Barrister]

I just am continually shocked at how toothless Ukraine is, I knew they were not on par with Russia but they literally have a military that is non-functional. I don't understand how a country that borders a Russia that has in the past invaded other enemies and even referred to Ukraine as "not a real country" could basically have a military force weaker than a big city police department in the United States.

That's one thing I do think Poland has going for it, they've spent a shit ton on their military and have been increasing that spending every year. Relative to the size of their country, they have a big military with advanced armor, anti-tank, anti-air and other equipment. I don't think Russia will actually try anything with Poland, because if Russian speaking dudes in unmarked uniforms started coming in I think the Poles would quite simply just kill them. If Russia wants to invade Poland it would have to do it the old fashioned way, and I suspect the losses in such an invasion would be enough to make it not worth it to Putin. It's possible it could even be repulsed given the high technological capacity of the Polish military.

But it will indeed be interesting to see how many countries Putin can just invade by sending special forces units over as "protesters" in organized actions. I think it can only realistically be done in countries with any kind of significant Russian minority, which probably also is something working in Poland's favor as they don't have any kind of major Russian population or Russian enclaves like the Baltics do.

Remember they did have a revolutin oh, one month ago, and that the people largely in power now were the ones the military was shooting up until then.

[grumbler]

Right, and that's why I mentioned how far Ukraine as fallen. Per capita it was basically on par with Russia when the USSR collapsed, now it is vastly poorer.

Not really a fair comparison - Russia has vast petroleum and gas reserves.

A better comparison is Belorus.  Belorus has most of the same issues as Ukraine, and lacks the resources of Russia.  It has nearly double Ukraine's per-capita GDP, while having only half of Russia's.

When your leadership is worse than that of Belorus, you have no leadership.

[The Minsky Moment]

The problem isn't Poland. The problem are the Baltic States. They:
-have significant Russian minorities
-are former Russian/Soviet Empire territory
-are NATO members

The Russians in the Baltics for the most part are not interesting in going back to Russia, which would involve joining a country with half the per capita GDP.  The situation in Ukraine is opposite.

[Tamas]

Mongers screwed up, we need one thread on this, not two. 

[Admiral Yi]

The Russians in the Baltics for the most part are not interesting in going back to Russia, which would involve joining a country with half the per capita GDP.  The situation in Ukraine is opposite.

Is this documented, or inference?

[DGuller]

Right, and that's why I mentioned how far Ukraine as fallen. Per capita it was basically on par with Russia when the USSR collapsed, now it is vastly poorer.

Not really a fair comparison - Russia has vast petroleum and gas reserves.

A better comparison is Belorus.  Belorus has most of the same issues as Ukraine, and lacks the resources of Russia.  It has nearly double Ukraine's per-capita GDP, while having only half of Russia's.

When your leadership is worse than that of Belorus, you have no leadership.

I just said that very thing in the other thread.