Massive use of chemical weapons in Syria, 1,429 killed including 426 children

[Bluebook]

Both sides are the bad guys.  And I really don't see how our national interests are served by getting involved.

Can you see how your national interests are served if the entire world understands the "if you use chemical weapons, you die"-lesson?

Are we talking about using chemical weapons against the US or our allies?  If not, then no, I can't.

Interesting. And what is your opinion based on here? Pure self-interest, Im assuming?

[derspiess]

Interesting. And what is your opinion based on here? Pure self-interest, Im assuming?

National interest.  So, yeah. 

[Maximus]

Certainly not that all men are created equal.

[derspiess]

So anyway, what targets do we hit with our cruise missiles?  Are there any aspirin factories in Syria??

[Berkut]

I think it is certainly within US self interest to enforce the global ban on using WMDs.

[Bluebook]

Yeah so what are they going to bomb?

The Syrian government forces.

And for what purpose?

As punishment for using chemical weapons, which is a violation of not only the laws of war, but also is considered to be a crime against humanity.

Which faction are they helping with it? etc.

Since it weakens the syrian government forces, presumably all fractions fighting against those forces.

But that is also irrelevant to the fact that the bombings will be a punishment for acting in a manner that is unacceptable to the civilized world.

this is stupid.

Not to be overly rude or anything, but judging from your arguments in this thread and the scenarios you are prepared to invent in order to put the blame somewhere other than in the hands of the Syrian government, you seem to be pretty stupid yourself.

[Bluebook]

Interesting. And what is your opinion based on here? Pure self-interest, Im assuming?

National interest.  So, yeah.

And taking that position of yours and applying it to a hypothetical holocaust-type scenario, where does that leave you?

[Bluebook]

So anyway, what targets do we hit with our cruise missiles?  Are there any aspirin factories in Syria??

Taking out the Syrian airforce and all their air-defences seems like a no-brainer?

[Jacob]

I think it is certainly within US self interest to enforce the global ban on using WMDs.

I think derspiess' complaint is that it's not a Republican enforcing that global ban.

[derspiess]

And taking that position of yours and applying it to a hypothetical holocaust-type scenario, where does that leave you?

Hyperboleville, I guess.

Taking out the Syrian airforce and all their air-defences seems like a no-brainer?

From what I understand, we're likely to do a limited cruise missile strike.  And it would probably take a little more than that to remove the Syrian air and air defense capability.

[derspiess]

I think derspiess' complaint is that it's not a Republican enforcing that global ban.

[Legbiter]

So If I'm Assad, and I appear to be winning, then what do I have to gain by using weapons that will almost certainly attract vast amounts of negative international attention?  Don't give me the "HE'S CRAZY LOL!" excuse.  He can't be that crazy, or he would have been offed a while ago by some dude in his military.

He's stuck in a nasty stalemate. The Alawites don't even have full control of Damascus, he figured Obama was just blustering and wouldn't do shit if chemical weapons were used.

Yeah, he miscalculated on that last one but there have been so many atrocities committed by his faction that it's probably easy to slide into reaching for the sarin.

That or Assad dosen't have full control of his military.

[Berkut]

I think it is certainly within US self interest to enforce the global ban on using WMDs.

I think derspiess' complaint is that it's not a Republican enforcing that global ban.

Of course.

[Malthus]

My post wasn't meant to suggest I think there is some sort of conspiracy afoot here.

I am just struggling to understand Assad's motivation.  If I may compare him to Saddam, Saddam as we know had vast chemical stockpiles during the Iran-Iraq War but IIRC he withheld use of them until after 1982 when Iran went on the offensive, and the Iraqis felt that the fall of Baghdad was a real possibility.  He then gassed the shit out of his opponents toward the end of the war (Iran and the Kurds both) because he was trying to get Iran to the negotiating table as his country was totally exhausted by that point.

So If I'm Assad, and I appear to be winning, then what do I have to gain by using weapons that will almost certainly attract vast amounts of negative international attention?  Don't give me the "HE'S CRAZY LOL!" excuse.  He can't be that crazy, or he would have been offed a while ago by some dude in his military.

He may have very rationally reached the conclusion that negative international attention would not harm him one jot and that the US (and everyone else) will not, in  fact, do squat.

[Berkut]

My post wasn't meant to suggest I think there is some sort of conspiracy afoot here.

I am just struggling to understand Assad's motivation.  If I may compare him to Saddam, Saddam as we know had vast chemical stockpiles during the Iran-Iraq War but IIRC he withheld use of them until after 1982 when Iran went on the offensive, and the Iraqis felt that the fall of Baghdad was a real possibility.  He then gassed the shit out of his opponents toward the end of the war (Iran and the Kurds both) because he was trying to get Iran to the negotiating table as his country was totally exhausted by that point.

So If I'm Assad, and I appear to be winning, then what do I have to gain by using weapons that will almost certainly attract vast amounts of negative international attention?  Don't give me the "HE'S CRAZY LOL!" excuse.  He can't be that crazy, or he would have been offed a while ago by some dude in his military.

He may have very rationally reached the conclusion that negative international attention would not harm him one jot and that the US (and everyone else) will not, in  fact, do squat.

Could even be thinking that a relatively minor reaction (lob a few cruise missiles at him) might be a net benefit to him. Snubbing the Great Satan and all that, providing the populace with an external threat, etc., etc.