The irregular anti-clerical column: 'Abortion far worse than Child Abuse'

[DisturbedPervert]

If you have 40 million abortions in 23 years in a country like Spain, then obviously abortion is not that limited in practice.

Maybe they're including the withdrawal method.

[Drakken]

Even the Lord facepalms at this... 

[Berkut]

When asked about the massive cases of child abuse uncovered in Ireland, he lamented them in one (one!) phrase, proceeded to announce than in any case abortion was far worse and then delivered a stirring tirade on the 40.000.000 'children' 'murdered' in abortions in Spain in 23 years of very limited abortion (only three cases allowed under the law: rape, serious danger for the mother, grave fetus malformations)

If you have 40 million abortions in 23 years in a country like Spain, then obviously abortion is not that limited in practice.  Either the limitations are not followed in practice, or "serious danger for the mother" is interpreted very loosely.

That is what McCain was referring to - that "harm to the mother" ends up being so loosely defined that it becomes meaningless. That is ok with me since I don't support the government right to tell women what they can and cannot do with their body anyway, but I can certainly see why that "restriction" would be galling to the pro-life crowd.

It is an emotioanl fig leaf used to allow unrestricted abortion under the guise of a restriction that no politician can safely touch without being immediately mis-characterized. As ulmont so kindly demonstrated.

[ulmont]

It is an emotioanl fig leaf used to allow unrestricted abortion under the guise of a restriction that no politician can safely touch without being immediately mis-characterized. As ulmont so kindly demonstrated.

Accurately quoting McCain != mischaracterization.

[ulmont]

the 40.000.000 'children' 'murdered' in abortions in Spain in 23 years of very limited abortion

The 40 million number looks very suspicious to me.  The United States has run somewhere from 1.6 to 1.2 million abortions annually since 1976.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011603624.html

For Spain to have 40 million abortions in 23 years, they would have to have a higher absolute abortion rate than the US with less than 1/6 of the population.

And, doing more searching, I see it is bullshit.  In 1995, 49,000 Spanish abortions.  In 2004, 85,000.  Even the higher number would yield less than 2 million abortions in 23 years.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/28/spain.mainsection

[DGuller]

It is an emotioanl fig leaf used to allow unrestricted abortion under the guise of a restriction that no politician can safely touch without being immediately mis-characterized. As ulmont so kindly demonstrated.

Accurately quoting McCain != mischaracterization.

Not true.  Accurately quoting someone out of context is mischaracterization.  I don't remember the context of McCain's quote, but given that he's generally not stupid, he most likely did mean that health exception can be vague and extremely exploitable.

[DGuller]

the 40.000.000 'children' 'murdered' in abortions in Spain in 23 years of very limited abortion

The 40 million number looks very suspicious to me.  The United States has run somewhere from 1.6 to 1.2 million abortions annually since 1976.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011603624.html

For Spain to have 40 million abortions in 23 years, they would have to have a higher absolute abortion rate than the US with less than 1/6 of the population.

And, doing more searching, I see it is bullshit.  In 1995, 49,000 Spanish abortions.  In 2004, 85,000.  Even the higher number would yield less than 2 million abortions in 23 years.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/28/spain.mainsection

Well, we were going by Alatriste's numbers.  However, US abortion rate is nowhere near the maximum it can be.  In Easter Europe and China, abortion rate is many times higher than that in US.

[ulmont]

Accurately quoting someone out of context is mischaracterization.

I'm not sure how you can quote someone out of context by linking to a full video clip and a transcript of their remarks.

[The Brain]

Easter Europe?

[HVC]

Easter Europe?

It's a countrypopulated by bunnies and whose main export is chocolate.

[The Brain]

Easter Europe?

It's a countrypopulated by bunnies and whose main export is chocolate.

My main export is chocolate.

[Syt]

Would make a good campaign picture for anti-migraine medicine.

[Berkut]

Accurately quoting someone out of context is mischaracterization.

I'm not sure how you can quote someone out of context by linking to a full video clip and a transcript of their remarks.

It does make it harder, and yet you managed it anyway. Kudos!

I guess we can safely assume that you knew you were mis-characterizing his position anyway.

[grumbler]

Really.  You're going to listen to that quote and say McCain does not describe "health of the mother" as "the extreme pro-abortion position"?   Here, let me give you the transcript:

That's the extreme pro-abortion position, quote, "health."

http://www.wkrg.com/news/article/mccain_obama_last_debate_transcript_page_2/20027/

Again, quote mining doesn't really do you any good when everyone can see exactly what McCain is saying.  It isn't hard to take a sentence out of context and twist its meaning to suit one's intellectually dishonest position, but everyone can see you doing it.

Just again, the example of the eloquence of Sen. Obama. He's health for the mother. You know, that's been stretched by the pro-abortion movement in America to mean almost anything.

That's the extreme pro-abortion position, quote, "health."

So, the extreme position isn't the health of the mother, it is the "quote" health of the mother, which has been, according to McCain, stretched to mean most anything.

He is probably right about the stretching.  Not that that bothers me any, as I support abortion pretty much on demand, which is more extreme than McCain's "extreme."

[Alatriste]

When asked about the massive cases of child abuse uncovered in Ireland, he lamented them in one (one!) phrase, proceeded to announce than in any case abortion was far worse and then delivered a stirring tirade on the 40.000.000 'children' 'murdered' in abortions in Spain in 23 years of very limited abortion (only three cases allowed under the law: rape, serious danger for the mother, grave fetus malformations)

If you have 40 million abortions in 23 years in a country like Spain, then obviously abortion is not that limited in practice.  Either the limitations are not followed in practice, or "serious danger for the mother" is interpreted very loosely.

We don't have so many abortions, I thought it would be self-evident... there are only about 40,000,000 native Spaniards plus roughly 5,5-6 millions inmigrants... cardinal Cañizares is saying that without abortion Spain would be the most populated country in Europe with over 85,000,000 inhabitants about 60% of them under 23 years old... that 40,000,000 number would equal some 2,000,000 abortions each year (and at least 75-80% of all pregnancies ending in abortion).

In short, it is sheer madness!