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#41

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - October 06, 2025, 02:14:36 PM

Climate wise I think it's quite recognised France has the best going, with its large temperate north but also with a sizable Mediterranean area and then in between grape friendly terrain.
It can grow basically anything in decent quantities.

Yeah. I think France is the ideal for me. Beer and butter and cream in the North, olives and wine and anchovies in the South, mountains and beaches.

#42

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by viper37 - October 06, 2025, 02:10:47 PM

How would someone in the 1930s have imagined drone warfare taking out economic infrastructure targets hundreds of miles behind enemy lines.

"The drone will always get through"  (?)

No, to damage the enemy at range required costly investment in the manufacture and development of bombers.  The opposite of what is occurring now.

That's still 30-40 million US$ per unit, plus the payload and the support infrastructure.

But they don't have the same purpose anymore.  Drones are more like dive bombers of WWII.

#43

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by Josquius - October 06, 2025, 02:10:18 PM

One thing where I see parallels with pre war thinking about bombers and drones is that so much of this Sci fi didn't think of bombers as these fragile things going on sortees with high casualty rates.
There was a lot more this idea of air battleships that just hovered over cities and destroyed at will (going back before the 30s there, I'm thinking of jules verne in particular maybe). Pilots as these untouchable uber men in the air above.

Which you might say ah but that's even more the complete opposite of drones....

But is it?
Conceptually in the tools it may be.
But the end result whether it's a big air battleship you can't shoot down or a constant never ending swarm of drones... Same same.

#44

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Josquius - October 06, 2025, 02:06:49 PM

Climate wise I think it's quite recognised France has the best going, with its large temperate north but also with a sizable Mediterranean area and then in between grape friendly terrain.
It can grow basically anything in decent quantities.

I suppose on a grand scope of history too that France is top in Europe for spurning it's advantages what with much of European history up until napoleon being about trying to stop French world conquest.

Britain is up there too though, I mean yeah we have to trade for fruit and wine but... That's why god gave us ships and the Portuguese.
And purely looking at the past century or so we've done a lot more to throw away a strong position.

#45

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by The Minsky Moment - October 06, 2025, 02:05:55 PM

No, to damage the enemy at range required costly investment in the manufacture and development of bombers.  The opposite of what is occurring now.

Sort of?

Germany had over 1500 bombers when the war started. By '42 Britain was producing about 5000 bombers a year.  US produced about 50,000 heavy and medium bombers during the war.

The airframes weren't that hard to build.  Finding good pilots and crew is another story; drones have an advantage there.

#46

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Grey Fox - October 06, 2025, 02:01:53 PM

Saying our climate a great positive for Britain is the most depraved thing I've ever seen on Languish.

Well, it's not a bad climate. UK farmers can plant seed when Canada is still covered by feets of snow.

#47

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by Josquius - October 06, 2025, 01:51:07 PM

Obviously it wouldn't be an exact comparison. It should go without saying that they were imagining manned flying machines rather than drones.
But the end result does seem quite similar.
The main difference I see is not being pedantic over drones but that even Russia is tiptoing away somewhat from a full "the bomber will always get through approach." Not quite levelling cities completely but doing it in a more limited way, seeking optimal terror and despair rather than death itself.

#48

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - October 06, 2025, 01:36:44 PM

Not one of your windy and freezing Pacific Northwest beaches though 

Anyway all you Brits who bitch about British Weather are welcome to come spend a summer in Texas or a winter in Minnesota. You'll be singing a different tune.

I have no idea - but my impression is the only bit of North America I'd be interested in from a climate perspective are some parts of California.

And on geographic blessings this is where I do think the Victorian encyclopedia has a point. It's a very benign, safe natural world in Britain - we're not on a fault-line, don't get hurricanes or tornadoes, (until now) rarely cold or hot enough to be dangerous, not really many poisonous things or animals that can kill humans at least as long as we ignore the Guardian:

#49

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by crazy canuck - October 06, 2025, 01:36:01 PM

How would someone in the 1930s have imagined drone warfare taking out economic infrastructure targets hundreds of miles behind enemy lines.

"The drone will always get through"   (?)

No, to damage the enemy at range required costly investment in the manufacture and development of bombers.  The opposite of what is occurring now.

You are ignoring the main point (which has merit as an interesting trivia) and instead get hung up on minor details and semantics.

On this forum of all places.

I am addressing the main point, and you are handwaving away the criticism.

#50

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by crazy canuck - October 06, 2025, 01:35:20 PM

I was about to say...people in the 30s suspected something like that. They just thought it would be bombers.

They just thought it would require something completely different.  Yeah, sort of the point.

Something different sure.

Though the idea of remote controlled flying bombs was certainly a concept back then. The Germans experimented with them during the war. So not exactly a huge stretch. The basic concept of winning via bombing while the front line is static is similar.

"During the war" not the claim Jos was making