Here :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2340714/The-Secret-Life-Cat-What-mischievous-moggies-gets-owners-backs.html
Some good stuff here :cool:
Very interesting. I am quite surprised that this kind of study isn't done more often.
"Feline Napoleons". Would be an interesting watch, I'm sure they'll air it here too at some point.
I wonder if cats go mad if I don't let them out.
I want one for my cats. I often wonder where they go when they head outside.
This makes me :ultra:
Our cats are strictly indoor cats.
Which I think kind of sucks for them, but the wife is adamant about it.
Quote from: merithyn on June 13, 2013, 10:05:44 AM
I want one for my cats. I often wonder where they go when they head outside.
Your cats told me that it's none of your fucking business.
Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
Our cats are strictly indoor cats.
Which I think kind of sucks for them, but the wife is adamant about it.
Yeah, I found out about this North American peculiarity on a visit to Canada in 1992. I was shocked.
Some even have them declawed so they don't shred the furnishings.
This is completely weird and insane from the British point of view where the independent streak that cats have is their most widely admired trait.
I think a lot of cats are fine being indoor only if you get them as kittens and keep them that way. In my experience though if you have a cat that is either accustomed to living mostly outdoors or being able to go outdoors throughout the day, it will never be happy as an indoor only cat and will scheme to escape constantly. I know outdoor cats don't live as long, but unless you've raised one as an indoor cat I don't really know that they can have great quality of life being cooped up.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
This is completely weird and insane from the British point of view where the independent streak that cats have is their most widely admired trait.
That doesn't change by living indoors. What changes about living outdoors is the mortality rate, when you find your cat dead.
As long as a cat owner remains engaged with their cat with playtime, attention and stimulation, an indoor cat can be a happy cat.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
Yeah, I found out about this North American peculiarity on a visit to Canada in 1992. I was shocked.
Some even have them declawed so they don't shred the furnishings.
This is completely weird and insane from the British point of view where the independent streak that cats have is their most widely admired trait.
I think declawing is on the wane big time, I know some vets will not do it and I think the American Veterinary Association is opposed to the practice. When I was growing up there was no such thing as a purely indoor cat. There were cats that chose to lounge around the house most of the time, but they always had the option to wander around the neighborhood. I think in America there is a streak of perhaps over-protectiveness from cat owners. Cats that live outdoors are much more likely to die early from getting hit by cars or injured in fights etc, so a lot of cat owners in America take the view that it's irresponsible as a cat owner to let them outside.
I think my wife has some kind of strange concern that they are going to wander away and get stolen or just not know how to get back home.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 13, 2013, 10:22:54 AM
I think declawing is on the wane big time, I know some vets will not do it and I think the American Veterinary Association is opposed to the practice.
It is. Even though declawing procedures have gotten "better" with laser surgery as opposed to the old method of pulling them out, its been determined that declawing leads to behavioral issues, particularly with litter box use.
And it's not like they're comparable to fingernails like the old argument goes, either; because of the way they operate, it's the equivalent of removing somebody's finger bones to the 2nd knuckle.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
Our cats are strictly indoor cats.
Which I think kind of sucks for them, but the wife is adamant about it.
Yeah, I found out about this North American peculiarity on a visit to Canada in 1992. I was shocked.
Some even have them declawed so they don't shred the furnishings.
This is completely weird and insane from the British point of view where the independent streak that cats have is their most widely admired trait.
Seriously? Tyr's mind is going to explodes when he reads this thread.
My sister in law has 6 cats, none of them are allowed outside. One has Kitty AIDS.
It's a trade-off, in my experience.
Indoor only cats are statistically likely to live longer, without a doubt - cars are a main killer for urban cats.
OTOH, indoor-only cats are, in my experience, FAR more likely to have behavioural issues. It is of course possible to entertain and otherwise stimulate an indoor-only cat so that they stay sane and happy, but most people lack the time and/or inclination - so they go stir-crazy. Which stands to reason, as most creatures so confined would.
Myself, I prefer indoor/outdoor cats, simply because I too find part of the charm of a cat is that you don't one hundred percent "own" it - in some part, it chooses to live with you; and also, because a sane cat makes a more enjoyable pet. Plus, keeps the mice down around the garage - ours isn't a birder.
Quote from: Malthus on June 13, 2013, 10:42:23 AM
Indoor only cats are statistically likely to live longer, without a doubt - cars are a main killer for urban cats.
And rural ones. We lost a few cats when I was growing up because though there's not many cars they drive a lot faster on an empty country road than in a town.
I'd never heard of indoor cats either :blink:
We used to have a cat that was half wildcat. She would not have tolerated being an indoor cat, it took her two years to tolerate sitting with or being stroked by a human.
I really think it depends on where you live. We live in a smallish city with a lot of space for cats to wander safely. Most of my neighbors have indoor/outdoor cats, and so far as I know, none of us have ever lost one, though my cats are scrappers and often come home with cuts and bruises. :glare:
When I lived in the Chicago-area, though, I wouldn't have been as willing to let them wander freely. It, also, would have been illegal to do so, as there were laws against any pets being outside without a leash. (That included bunnies and ferrets, too.)
Cats have a special position in English law, they are not liable for trespass and are free to roam at will, while it is also illegal to trap, kill or injure them.
Lucky bastards :lol:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2013, 10:19:12 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
Our cats are strictly indoor cats.
Which I think kind of sucks for them, but the wife is adamant about it.
Yeah, I found out about this North American peculiarity on a visit to Canada in 1992. I was shocked.
Some even have them declawed so they don't shred the furnishings.
This is completely weird and insane from the British point of view where the independent streak that cats have is their most widely admired trait.
For Austria and Germany it depends on where you are. If you're in a rural setting you're more likely to let your cat roam. In the city, not so much.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 13, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
I think a lot of cats are fine being indoor only if you get them as kittens and keep them that way. In my experience though if you have a cat that is either accustomed to living mostly outdoors or being able to go outdoors throughout the day, it will never be happy as an indoor only cat and will scheme to escape constantly. I know outdoor cats don't live as long, but unless you've raised one as an indoor cat I don't really know that they can have great quality of life being cooped up.
Some truth to that. My Calico is an exception. She was declawed and abandoned to the streets and shows little interest in going out. Though every now and again she'll escape and wander around blindly.
We are very sub-sub urban. We live in a smallish development in upstate New York.
There are no predators of any kind arround, other than other cats.
Both cats are declawed though, so if they did get into a fight with another cat, they would be at a considerable disadvantage.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2013, 11:31:22 AM
Cats have a special position in English law, they are not liable for trespass and are free to roam at will, while it is also illegal to trap, kill or injure them.
Lucky bastards :lol:
He is your only defense from the return of the Black Death!!111
Well ok maybe anti-biotics might help to.
Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
Both cats are declawed though, so if they did get into a fight with another cat, they would be at a considerable disadvantage.
Well at least they do not have knives.
Damn, Valmy beat me to it.
I see quite a lot of cats around my bit of London and other areas I've lived in, so I don't think it's that common even in the cities.
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2013, 11:55:56 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
Both cats are declawed though, so if they did get into a fight with another cat, they would be at a considerable disadvantage.
Well at least they do not have knives.
Quote from: Maximus on June 13, 2013, 11:56:48 AM
Damn, Valmy beat me to it.
And that's how he won the respect of the guys in The Octagon.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 13, 2013, 10:28:18 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on June 13, 2013, 10:22:54 AM
I think declawing is on the wane big time, I know some vets will not do it and I think the American Veterinary Association is opposed to the practice.
It is. Even though declawing procedures have gotten "better" with laser surgery as opposed to the old method of pulling them out, its been determined that declawing leads to behavioral issues, particularly with litter box use.
And it's not like they're comparable to fingernails like the old argument goes, either; because of the way they operate, it's the equivalent of removing somebody's finger bones to the 2nd knuckle.
Why bother with ripping out the entire claw anyway? Just cut the top when it gets too long/sharp. I used a special claw cutter for my cat and never had any issues. He even seemed to enjoy the trimming but then he was a weird one who thought the medicine I got for one of his throat issues was the tastiest thing in the world.
To echo what Tricky said about cats not being 'chattels' we're responsible for, over here a fair section of the population don't regard their cats as belonging to them, it's quite common for cats themselves to move home and go live with the neighbours and this is generally accepted.
Maybe it's a cultural norm that cats are regarded as free spirits rather than as more like possession as in parts of North America ?:unsure:
Quote from: mongers on June 13, 2013, 12:57:55 PM
To echo what Tricky said about cats not being 'chattels' we'r responsiblefor , over here a fair section of the population don't regard their cats as belonging to them, it's quite common for cats themselves to move home and go live with the neighbours and this is generally accepted.
Maybe it's a cultural norm that cats are regarded as free spirits rather than as more like possession as in parts of North America ?:unsure:
IN Texas that would be enough for you to go your neighbors & kill them all to get back your belongings.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 13, 2013, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 13, 2013, 12:57:55 PM
To echo what Tricky said about cats not being 'chattels' we'r responsiblefor , over here a fair section of the population don't regard their cats as belonging to them, it's quite common for cats themselves to move home and go live with the neighbours and this is generally accepted.
Maybe it's a cultural norm that cats are regarded as free spirits rather than as more like possession as in parts of North America ?:unsure:
IN Texas that would be enough for you to go your neighbors & kill them all to get back your belongings.
So if my cat wanders into my neighbors house at night, by law in Texas I can just open up on their house, right?
I mean, they've stolen my property at night, so they are fair game.
That's how I read it. It's your property, they stole it. Death is the only option.