The jokes almost write themselves...
QuoteA man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.
...
Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836#.UYFROeS-1I7 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836#.UYFROeS-1I7)
IQ of 33 seems a bit high, yes.
They are probably looking for the types that buy guns for their four year old kids.
They should've let him become one; his IQ would've dropped enough over time.
Seems reasonable to me. You need some way of amortizing training cost in the absence of indentured servitude contracts.
Mr. Einstein, you seem to have scored too high on the test to be a police officer. If you really want the job there is only one option. Here you have a paper bag and a stick of glue. Come back when you score below 30.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2013, 02:03:27 PM
Seems reasonable to me. You need some way of amortizing training cost in the absence of indentured servitude contracts.
Would it be illegal/unconstitutional for them to have required terms of service like the military?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
Would it be illegal/unconstitutional for them to have required terms of service like the military?
Don't know.
Quoteon the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
It is a pretty silly theory, though. I've known incredibly accomplished people from other walks of life--a college instructor, IT tards, a chemist, even a former MLB pitcher--leave their professions because they liked the concept of driving the car with the nifty light bar to fight crime and suppress evil.
Mainly because they wanted to do it ever since they were a kid and they finally had the chance whether through retirement, divorce, or the kids finally moved out of the house.
Shouldn't hold their intelligence against them; then again, police agencies aren't always known for flexing theirs.
If my company pays for training for me (specifically college costs), then I'm required to spend at least two years at my current company or pay them back. So, it's not illegal.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a police officer being forced to stay on the job longer than he/she wants to be there, however. That just seems like a receipe for disaster.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2013, 02:03:27 PM
Seems reasonable to me. You need some way of amortizing training cost in the absence of indentured servitude contracts.
Would it be illegal/unconstitutional for them to have required terms of service like the military?
Virtually all agencies now have you sign an agreement upon hire to reimburse the agency for training if you leave within 2 or 3 years as a condition of employment. I've never seen it enforced myself, though.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 01, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2013, 02:03:27 PM
Seems reasonable to me. You need some way of amortizing training cost in the absence of indentured servitude contracts.
Would it be illegal/unconstitutional for them to have required terms of service like the military?
Not sure what you have in mind but generally contracts of personal service cannot be enforced by an order of specific performance. They way most organizations get around this problem is contractual provisions which require the employee pay back x amount of training costs if they leave before x date.
The military has its own military law so that might be how they get around the problem.
Quote from: merithyn on May 01, 2013, 02:13:01 PM
If my company pays for training for me (specifically college costs), then I'm required to spend at least two years at my current company or pay them back. So, it's not illegal.
I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a police officer being forced to stay on the job longer than he/she wants to be there, however. That just seems like a receipe for disaster.
Would you be comfortable with someone in the military working with high-value weapons/explosives/top secret info, etc being forced to stay if they no longer want to be there? :sleep:
For language-training jobs (which can require upwards of two years, just in training), the USAF recently eliminated the 4-year enlistment option, and now requires the previously optional 6-year term.
I applied for a job that is about a 5 minute walk from my current apt. The interviewer flat out told me that he had concerns that I'd be bored and leave because of my intelligence. I was: not amused though he was right it was a boring job. :D
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2013, 03:42:00 PM
I applied for a job that is about a 5 minute walk from my current apt. The interviewer flat out told me that he had concerns that I'd be bored and leave because of my intelligence. I was: not amused though he was right it was a boring job. :D
That's why I got fired from the University. The woman in charge of me was afraid that I would quit due to boredom, so rather than wait for that, she fired me.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Who cares? I'm out of here.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Depends on the job. When I worked as a programmer for the Vanguard Group (first job out of college), I only lasted 9 months. When I went to give notice, the response was "Yeah, we could tell you were too bright to stick around here." In more challenging jobs, though, I've stuck around for 6 and 7 years...
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
I've no idea. I can tell you though in my case that I was likely to leave the job as it was boring and I just wanted something easy in the short-term.
And really while money was an issue at my last job, I always knew I'd leave at some point as the work was too easy.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Perception is reality.
I got out because I was smart enough to figure out I was too overqualified to put up with that monkey shit fight of a zoo department.
So maybe they've got a point. But it would never be about boredom, no matter where it is.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Yes, see my CV.
Hell, I've even 'walked out' on myself a couple of times. :rolleyes:
Quote from: mongers on May 01, 2013, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Yes, see my CV.
Hell, I've even 'walked out' on myself a couple of times. :rolleyes:
How do you walk out on yourself.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
With boring shit, probably. Smart people like to be intellectually challenged, that's probably why they're smart.
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 04:25:22 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 01, 2013, 04:00:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Yes, see my CV.
Hell, I've even 'walked out' on myself a couple of times. :rolleyes:
How do you walk out on yourself.
Fold the business, move on to something new and start afresh. :cool:
I like a "boring" job as long as they pay me lots of money for little work.
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 04:39:52 PM
I like a "boring" job as long as they pay me lots of money for little work.
No it ends up kinda soul crushing. Sure it beats being unemployed but it isn't very fun to spend a large chunk of time doing dull things.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Bored? I don't know.
I could definitely seem employers or managers being worried that potential hires are too smart to put up with their bullshit in the long term, and too talented to need to.
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 04:39:52 PM
I like a "boring" job as long as they pay me lots of money for little work.
No it ends up kinda soul crushing. Sure it beats being unemployed but it isn't very fun to spend a large chunk of time doing dull things.
That's why I say "little work". If there is a lot of down time on the job in between "boring" taks, I can do the main things in life that I enjoy, such as reading and writing.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 01, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Bored? I don't know.
I could definitely seem employers or managers being worried that potential hires are too smart to put up with their bullshit in the long term, and too talented to need to.
But it's not really an intelligence issue. It's a talent/qualifications issue.
I can understand thinking "this guy is way too qualified - he'll have too many other opportunities, and will leave within a few months". But talented is only very loosely connected to intelligence.
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 04:39:52 PM
I like a "boring" job as long as they pay me lots of money for little work.
No it ends up kinda soul crushing. Sure it beats being unemployed but it isn't very fun to spend a large chunk of time doing dull things.
That's why I say "little work". If there is a lot of down time on the job in between "boring" taks, I can do the main things in life that I enjoy, such as reading and writing.
Yeah but then you're just saying you'd like to make money and rarely have to do work. Hardly a radical statement.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 05:05:36 PM
But it's not really an intelligence issue. It's a talent/qualifications issue.
I can understand thinking "this guy is way too qualified - he'll have too many other opportunities, and will leave within a few months". But talented is only very loosely connected to intelligence.
In some lines of work it is, in some it isn't. The first half of that is relevant regardless, though. If someone has talent but doesn't realize they can do better, they won't try. Maybe that isn't directly an intelligence thing, but I think more intelligent people are more likely to recognize a bad situation and work to change it.
At the same time, I think in many lines of work, bad situations stem from failed management and not so much that management realizes the situation is shitty and parses out who will put up with it.
True. To do so consciously would be indicative of truly dysfunctional and sociopathic management. But, at least in the tech world, "cultural fit" has become a rage and I definitely see it happening unconsciously or indirectly under that guise.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 01, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
Maybe that isn't directly an intelligence thing, but I think more intelligent people are more likely to recognize a bad situation and work to change it.
Valid point. Intelligent people--willing to use that intelligence, that is--stuck in "boring" work wind up trying to "fix" things, and all they do is wind up pissing off the boss and everybody else around them.
:yawn:
People hate busybodies and do-gooders.
I now am part of a duo in charge of cleaning up my departments operational processes...or in other words getting Ops staff to do what we want in a way that they are okay with. My boss created it as a goal for me on my 2013 review.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 05:49:07 PM
People hate busybodies and do-gooders.
Isn't that what cops are?
No, They Fight What You Fear.
Which, in your case, happens to be sunlight.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:48:57 PM
No, They Fight What You Fear.
Which, in your case, happens to be sunlight.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51k-0X38dSL._SL500_AA280_.jpg&hash=7532a84cf8a837e604815837f189489457973d13)
Wow. That is bizzare.
You'd have thought they would have special streams for the intelligent folks where they get training in computer security or something of the sort.
When I saw the title I thought more of a problem would be the lack of smart kids going into police work- most kids with an ounce of brains being told their only chance in life is to go to university and the police being regarded as a mundane job (as if post-university jobs aren't...).
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on May 01, 2013, 04:39:52 PM
I like a "boring" job as long as they pay me lots of money for little work.
No it ends up kinda soul crushing. Sure it beats being unemployed but it isn't very fun to spend a large chunk of time doing dull things.
:yes:
Much of my current job is a form of paid unemployment. I was just musing this morning how it is sort of like being in prison (albeit emphasis on the sort of) and how I wish I could do something with my life. It sucks massively.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 07:48:57 PM
No, They Fight What You Fear.
Which, in your case, happens to be sunlight.
They hunt whales as well?
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2013, 08:07:31 PM
Wow. That is bizzare.
You'd have thought they would have special streams for the intelligent folks where they get training in computer security or something of the sort.
This is a local police force. They don't do that kind of thing.
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2013, 08:07:31 PM
Wow. That is bizzare.
You'd have thought they would have special streams for the intelligent folks where they get training in computer security or something of the sort.
Doesn't work that way. Law enforcement is a rank structure with a dysfunctional culture. Far too many in leadership exist--and always will--with the attitude of "I had to do it the hard way, so will you."
In short, you have to put your time in.
That's why they send sergeants from Traffic Enforcement to some computer camp, and they end up blowing forensics evidence because they don't know what they're doing. See: Anthony, Casey.
Mind you, they're getting more progressive. In the 60s, my Dad was always told that he'd go nowhere in the police department with a college education. You simply didn't mention it. Luckily, Commissioner Pomerleau didn't see it that way.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 01, 2013, 08:09:45 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2013, 08:07:31 PM
Wow. That is bizzare.
You'd have thought they would have special streams for the intelligent folks where they get training in computer security or something of the sort.
This is a local police force. They don't do that kind of thing.
They don't have any connection to a greater state/national police group?
Quote from: Tyr on May 01, 2013, 08:22:43 PM
They don't have any connection to a greater state/national police group?
They have their phone numbers in a Rolodex.
Quote from: Barrister on May 01, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
Is the thesis even true? Are smart people more likely to grow bored and quit?
Yes.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 01, 2013, 05:49:07 PM
People hate busybodies and do-gooders.
I know I did. I has one chick who would do a memo once a month with her ideas on doing a re-org of the entire office. I assume she is still there, cranking out memos.
Doesn't sound very intelligent.
Quote from: Tyr
Much of my current job is a form of paid unemployment. I was just musing this morning how it is sort of like being in prison (albeit emphasis on the sort of) and how I wish I could do something with my life. It sucks massively.
If you don't love kids and love teaching than this job is the wrong one for you. How you can actually teach kids and feel like you aren't doing something great with your life is mind boggling to me.
On topic, when I applied for the ed program they were very surpprised, I had the highest scores of an applicant in years.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2013, 07:35:28 AM
Quote from: Tyr
Much of my current job is a form of paid unemployment. I was just musing this morning how it is sort of like being in prison (albeit emphasis on the sort of) and how I wish I could do something with my life. It sucks massively.
If you don't love kids and love teaching than this job is the wrong one for you. How you can actually teach kids and feel like you aren't doing something great with your life is mind boggling to me.
I think I've known plenty of people who did teach for america who had mixed feelings on whether they made a difference (which makes a lot of sense given the particulars).