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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on April 11, 2013, 01:58:02 PM

Title: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2013, 01:58:02 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/corruption-scandal-puts-hollande-and-france-on-their-heels-a-892965.html

QuoteTrouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic

France had hoped that President François Hollande could lead the country out of the swamp of scandal left behind by his precedessor Sarkozy. But accusations against his campaign manager combined with the offshore account held by Budget Minister Jérôme Cahuzac have destroyed that dream and triggered a crisis of democracy.

The most recent French political scandal started long ago, with a puzzling beginning worthy of a good film. Somewhere in the French province, in the house of a lawyer who wasn't home at the time, the phone rang. The answering machine clicked on and recorded nearly four minutes of a muffled dialogue between two men. They talked about a numbered account at the UBS bank and the fact that it was "a pain in the ass" to have to travel personally to Switzerland to give an authorized signature. Such are the hazy beginnings of this scandal.

The recording -- of an accidental mobile-phone call -- went unnoted for 12 years, before becoming politically explosive in recent months. A reporter working for the online news portal Mediapart stumbled across the recording in the summer of 2012. He had originally set out merely to form a clearer picture of the career of the new French budget minister, Jérôme Cahuzac, a rising star of the Socialist government, which has been governing the country since May.
What the persistent journalist, named Fabrice Arfi, discovered instead was a sordid web of political and personal deceit. The man with the numbered bank account who finds that traveling to Switzerland is "a pain in the ass" is none other than Cahuzac himself -- until recently the minister, guardian and auditor of French public finances. He is an attractive man, 60 years old, a sports enthusiast and a talented speaker. At the time, he was also the nation's self-styled champion in the fight against tax evasion and he gave repeated interviews in which he explained how French President François Hollande's promised "exemplary republic" could be achieved.

Last Tuesday, after four agonizing months, Cahuzac finally admitted that he had betrayed the country. Despite having solemnly assured French parliament last December that "I do not have, and have never had, a foreign bank account, not now, not previously," he has in fact had one for the past 20 years. Cahuzac's account was held in Switzerland until 2010 before he moved it to Singapore. It recently had a balance of €600,000 ($775,000). Over the weekend, allegations arose that he had used a falsified tax document to show that he had paid French taxes on the money.

Unsavory Business Practices

French daily Le Monde commented on the admission in a dramatic editorial, calling it "a profound democratic crisis" that adds to the economic and social crises already faced by the country. The newspaper contends that this breaks the "contract of confidence" between the people and its government.

That crisis of confidence deepened on Thursday when the international journalist project "Offshore Leaks" brought the name Jean-Jacques Augier to light.

Augier is an old friend and adviser of Hollande who, like the president, graduated as a member of the same "Voltaire" class at the elite École Nationale d'Administration (ENA), and he was the treasurer of his election campaign. He is also reportedly a shareholder in two shell companies based on the Cayman Islands. This alone has exposed him to suspicions of engaging in unsavory business practices, according to Le Monde. Augier responded immediately and rejected all allegations of illegal activities.

Augier said in a number of TV interviews that the spin-offs from his Eurane holding were established to handle transactions with his Chinese partners -- and he contends that everything was done aboveboard. "I have done nothing illegal," he insists. Yet the French president, who was on a state visit in Morocco, responded with the helpless words that he "knew nothing" about Augier's business transactions.

Additional accusations arose over the weekend that French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius possesses a secret bank account in Switzerland. He has vehemently denied the charges and vowed to take legal action against the French daily Libération, which published the charges.

Over the coming weeks, the focus will continue to be on who knew what and when, and the Cahuzac affair promises to overshadow everything. The liar's fall from grace has become a national crisis within just a few days -- a development that can only be understood by taking a step back from the endless daily stream of news reports and examining the bigger picture.

Political Cronyism

Cahuzac's fall spells the end of all hope that the rise to power of the Socialists last May marked the start of a political renewal in France. It was this hope that swept Hollande to power, despite his lack of charisma. His election victory showed that voters were fed up with the scandal-ridden clique system of his predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy -- and it was a sign that the French expected their new president to shake up decades of political cronyism.

Eleven months later, the French are beside themselves with disappointment. Cahuzac's behavior has put an end to the dream that the Socialists could return a sense of decency and propriety to the government's work. Instead, the electorate is increasingly coming to the alarming conclusion that it is living in a rotten republic, in the midst of a deep political crisis.

There is a general climate of suspicion that is cloaked in anxious questions: How could Hollande, how could Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault and Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici, not know that their prominent colleague Cahuzac had a sleazy bank account? President Hollande defends himself by saying that Cahuzac lied to him "face to face" about the affair.

In a poorly-lit, clumsy video message on Wednesday, the president invoked in a statesmanlike manner the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and pointed out that this must also apply to Cahuzac. This defense has prompted critics to accuse him of naiveté and raised the following question: In a ministry as sensitive as public finances, shouldn't the slightest suspicion have provided sufficient grounds for dismissal?

Eleven months after taking office, Hollande already appears to be on his knees politically. On the Thursday before Easter, only a few days before Cahuzac's declaration of guilt, Hollande went on television for 75 minutes and attempted to respond to questions about why key economic figures have worsened during his tenure in office. He didn't have any good answers. The latest polls of Hollande's popularity -- published last week in Le Figaro Magazine, and three days before Cahuzac's confession -- revealed historically miserable ratings.

Rising Extremities

According to a poll conducted by TNS Sofres, 70 percent of the French have little or no confidence in Hollande's work, and Prime Minister Ayrault received similarly dismal ratings. At ninth place on the list of politicians who, in the opinion of the French, should play "an important role" now stands the leader of the right-wing populist National Front, Marine Le Pen, who has been consistently gaining in popularity for months. In the wake of the Cahuzac shock, she is calling for the resignation of the government, the dissolution of the National Assembly and immediate new elections, while left-wing populist leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon has been calling for a broom to sweep the "oligarchy" from the upper echelons of the state.

What is new in France these days is that one doesn't have to harbor extreme political views anymore to find such political soap-boxing attractive. There is a deep-seated sense of frustration with a system that appears incapable of renewal. The majority of the population is of the opinion that France has failed for decades to revamp its public administration and political establishment to prepare it for today's globalized world.

That is why it is hardly an exaggeration to speak of a crisis of state. The general mood in the country is one of abject pessimism, as if the current republic designated with the Roman numeral V has reached a phase of irreversible decadence. Off-handed comments about French democracy having aristocratic tendencies have long been prevalent. But they have always sounded a more charming than warranted by the true situation. Now, the French are paying a bitter price.

The fact that the office of president is endowed with virtually absolutist power has given rise to a political establishment that looks to the Elysée Palace the way the royal court once looked to the crown. Every moderately dedicated mayor must endeavor at all times to maintain direct ties to the presidential office, because it is really only there that decisions are made. Projects of every type and size -- in the regions, the départements and the provincial cities -- are rarely approved during the course of clear, transparent administrative processes, but rather at informal Parisian dinner parties marked by a spirit of nepotism. This is no stereotype, but rather France's constitutional reality.

More Difficult Times Ahead

This may give serious impetus to the constitutional debate over a new "Sixth Republic" -- a political project which has failed to make any significant headway for over 10 years now. France's ongoing erosion of democracy can only be halted with a strengthened parliament, a democratically-anchored head of government, a weaker president and, in general, a much wider distribution of power. Following the events of last week, there can no longer be any doubt that such changes are needed.
The "Cahuzac bomb," as all French newspapers are referring to the affair, has torn additional gaping holes in the political establishment, which can no longer simply be patched up using the old system. A major cabinet reshuffle, which was rumored to be under consideration in Paris on Friday, would only be a small, conventional solution -- and not well suited to tackling this serious crisis.

According to Mediapart, the mood at Elysée Palace is one of pure "panic." For the time being, there are only diverse extremists and populists who are prepared to fill the power vacuum with a political circus and contempt for politics. More difficult times lie ahead for France.

Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: derspiess on April 11, 2013, 02:20:24 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2013, 02:37:03 PM
And last month's news, because it kinda fits in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/17/french-lawyer-olivier-metzner-found-dead

QuoteTop French lawyer Olivier Metzner's body found near private island

Figure nicknamed the 'gangsters' lawyer', whose clients included Manuel Noriega, discovered near Brittany island of Boëdic

One of the giants of the French legal system was found dead near his private island in Brittany on Sunday morning. A suicide note was discovered at his home nearby.

Olivier Metzner, 63, nicknamed the "gangsters' lawyer", was a larger-than-life figure known for his spirited defence of high-profile and controversial defendants including the Panamanian former dictator Manuel Noriega, the "rogue trader" Jérôme Kerviel and Continental Airlines, accused of causing the catastrophic Concorde crash in 2000.

In recent years, he had argued for the former prime minister Dominique de Villepin in the Clearstream scandal, represented rock star Bertrand Cantat when he was accused of killing his actor girlfriend, and argued the case of Françoise Bettencourt-Meyers who tried to have her ailing mother, the the L'Oréal heiress Liliane Bettencourt, declared a ward of court.

Named France's most powerful lawyer by GQ magazine last year, Metzner was often to be seen standing at the top of the Palais de Justice's monumental steps, puffing away on his trademark cigar. Occasionally, he would ignore the no-smoking signs and light up inside, confident that no court official or police officer would dare challenge him.

Outside the courts, where he would pick holes in legal procedure to get his clients off the hook, often in the most blunt of terms and so successfully that Libération described him as the "criminal fraternity's specialist", Metzner was a discreet figure.

Born in 1949 to dairy farmers in Normandy, whose ancestors had fled Prussia in the late 19th century, Metzner described himself as the product of a modest but "rigorous Normand and Protestant education". All three Metzner children escaped the countryside; his brother became a scientist and his sister a teacher in Canada.

He chose law after devouring the works of Kafka and reading a story in his local paper about a shepherd who had been sentenced to death.

"He was from the mountains and incapable of explaining his defence in any understandable language. It made me want to be an interpreter for those who had difficult expressing themselves in front of the court and at the same time explain the justice system to them, because the incomprehension goes both ways," he once said.

After studying in Caen, he headed for Paris, saying two decades in the "damp countryside" was long enough, and a career that was rewarding in every sense. Decades after his first case, in which he successfully defended a thief, he admitted his hourly fee had risen to €450 (£390). His last case, last month, was defending the Swiss petrol group Vitol, accused of breaking the United Nations "food for oil" embargo in Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Metzner never married and described himself as "leftwing at heart".

In 2010 he bought Boëdic Island in the Morbihan Gulf in Brittany, which he described as a "magnificent, remarkable place". But at the end of last year he announced his intention to sell it, saying he had "more interesting plans". "I am a man of projects," he told AFP in November.

His body was found at about 10am on Sunday floating near the island.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
German paper Die Zeit has an op ed that basically calls for a new revolution in France. The whole government caught up in corruption scandals and subsequent cover ups, the mainstream parties tearing themselves up between internal fights, corruption and election fraud. Economy quickly going downhill, unemployment rising. And no change in sight.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Viking on April 11, 2013, 03:05:37 PM
Let them eat camel?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22092790

Quote10 April 2013 Last updated at 10:33 GMT Help
An officials says Mali is to send the French president a replacement camel after the first, given to him as a gift for helping to oust Islamist rebels, was eaten, Reuters reports.

Francois Hollande had left the creature with a family in Timbuktu for safekeeping, after it was presented to him by local residents in February.

These pictures, from February, show Mr Hollande arriving in Mali and being presented with the camel.

To be honest, France's colonies are crappier than normal country's colonies. Seriously, even Sierra Leone manages to not eat Tony Blair's Poodle.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: garbon on April 11, 2013, 05:01:12 PM
Not attractive :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Sheilbh on April 11, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
Time for a VI Republic :mmm:

Or Melenchon leading a Commune :mmm: :wub:

I'm amazed to see Germans agitating for a French Revolution :blink:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on April 11, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
Better yet: The Third Empire.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: derspiess on April 11, 2013, 07:57:10 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 11, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
Better yet: The Third Empire.

I like this idea better.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 11, 2013, 11:26:17 PM
A rather melodramatic reaction. Just throw the bums out. I know they're French, but not everything is an existential crisis. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Syt on April 11, 2013, 11:46:59 PM
Who to replace them with? 77% of French people, according to a poll, think that all politicians are corrupt.

(That's still a lower number than in Austria, though)
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: fhdz on April 11, 2013, 11:55:02 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 11, 2013, 11:26:17 PM
A rather melodramatic reaction.

Kettle, I've got a pot I'd like you to meet.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Queequeg on April 11, 2013, 11:59:42 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on April 11, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
Better yet: The Third Empire.
Unified EU that would be fit partner for US? 
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 12, 2013, 02:07:45 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
Or Melenchon leading a Commune :mmm: :wub:

:x He's just an apparatchik, only looking dangerous for bobos.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 02:18:33 AM
Seems like a smear campaign by speculators and traitorous ultramontanist elements.  :frog:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:32:34 AM
Populist lefties turn out to be corrupt? STOP THE PRESSES! CIVILIZATION IS ENDINGERING!!!!
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:32:34 AM
Populist lefties turn out to be corrupt? STOP THE PRESSES! CIVILIZATION IS ENDINGERING!!!!

So, how's your economy with your populist rightists turning out?
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:38:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:32:34 AM
Populist lefties turn out to be corrupt? STOP THE PRESSES! CIVILIZATION IS ENDINGERING!!!!

So, how's your economy with your populist rightists turning out?


1) you can't be serious pretending that I support my government
2) you can't label them "rightists", they are, like, formless. They take the most glaring socialist propaganda, wrap it in national colors and call it conservative
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Lettow77 on April 12, 2013, 02:49:00 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FN7SGeS6.jpg&hash=a7eeb1911b03dcdba49e8c57648d2d4ff562bb6e)

Glorious Le Pen-sama has been gradually turning into a Little Girl; when he finally completes his metamorphosis he will save france  :)

Edit: I got excited
Quote

Ensconced within their accustomed sin
They scarce believe their sentence
But the Patrie's patience has been worn thin;
the elites must do their Penance

With her silver scepter she casts her spell
none that see her can but bend the knee
our holy maiden, La Pucelle
ascends with demure dignity

in gibbets, decayed and unsightly
Muslims shriek and socialists curse
Le Pen de Lune does not deal lightly
With the agents of the Negaverse

"Lune de cristal de puissance!"
intones the guardian of Sacred France
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 12, 2013, 02:56:30 AM
disband france and divide the land amongst neighbours and successorstates. Or give it to Thatcher's zombieform
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: citizen k on April 12, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:38:50 AMThey take the most glaring socialist propaganda, wrap it in national colors and call it conservative

So, they're Fascists.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:19:30 AM
Quote from: citizen k on April 12, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:38:50 AMThey take the most glaring socialist propaganda, wrap it in national colors and call it conservative

So, they're Fascists.

yeah, come to think of it.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 03:49:26 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:38:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 02:35:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 02:32:34 AM
Populist lefties turn out to be corrupt? STOP THE PRESSES! CIVILIZATION IS ENDINGERING!!!!

So, how's your economy with your populist rightists turning out?


1) you can't be serious pretending that I support my government
2) you can't label them "rightists", they are, like, formless. They take the most glaring socialist propaganda, wrap it in national colors and call it conservative

Yeah, so other words, right wingers.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
hey you don't have to convince ME
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:05:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
hey you don't have to convince ME

That seems like a personal problem.  Fahdiz's party is a member of an international conservative group of political parties called International Democrat Union which includes the Republican party of the US and Conservative party of Britain.  Birds of a feather...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Agelastus on April 12, 2013, 04:13:57 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 12, 2013, 02:56:30 AM
disband france and divide the land amongst neighbours and successorstates. Or give it to Thatcher's zombieform

We get first claim to Normandy, Maine, Anjou, Poitou, Aquitaine and Gascony (and any other bits I've forgotten.) :contract:

Britanny can be independent, though.

:)
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:14:15 AM
Why would they be in an international union of conservative parties if they weren't conservative?
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 05:54:16 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:14:15 AM
Why would they be in an international union of conservative parties if they weren't conservative?

I still don't understand where this connects to the fact that Hungary is ruled by fascists pretending to be moderate conservatives.

Altough, they ARE members of the moderate right party alliance in the EU, but nowadays even their supposed allies criticize them here and there, since they are such an embarrasment to civilized people everywhere.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Ed Anger on April 12, 2013, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.

Fahdiz is Raz's new chew toy. spicy got wore out.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 06:44:34 AM
Maybe because you have the wrong expectation for rightwingers?  It walks like a duck, it talk like a duck and hangs out with other ducks. For some reason you seem to expect ducks to oink, wallow in mud, and hang out with pigs.  So when when you see a duck you can't get it to grasp why it's quacking and waddling.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 06:46:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 12, 2013, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.

Fahdiz is Raz's new chew toy. spicy got wore out.

JR said Fahdiz was cause of the 2008 economic collapse and I take his word on economic thingies.  Admittedly, I asked him to say it, but I think it should still count.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Iormlund on April 12, 2013, 06:56:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 11, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
German paper Die Zeit has an op ed that basically calls for a new revolution in France. The whole government caught up in corruption scandals and subsequent cover ups, the mainstream parties tearing themselves up between internal fights, corruption and election fraud. Economy quickly going downhill, unemployment rising. And no change in sight.

:lol:
I wonder what they think we should do in Spain then.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on April 12, 2013, 06:56:29 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 11, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
German paper Die Zeit has an op ed that basically calls for a new revolution in France. The whole government caught up in corruption scandals and subsequent cover ups, the mainstream parties tearing themselves up between internal fights, corruption and election fraud. Economy quickly going downhill, unemployment rising. And no change in sight.

:lol:
I wonder what they think we should do in Spain then.

From a German perspective, Spain is probably in a permanent state of revolution/anarchy. :D
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Martinus on April 12, 2013, 07:32:28 AM
Speaking of Germans, apparently some German TV dared to produce and broadcast a movie about WW2, in which Polish freedom fighters are depicted as - shock horror - antisemites, causing a furore in Poland (one right wing weekly published a cover with Angela Merkel in an Auchwitz prisoner outfit, titled "Germans falsifying history").

Now, the Polish embassy in the US is trying to intervene in order to prevent the broadcasting of this movie in American cinemas and tv channels, in what seems like the biggest "Poland cannot into modern world" failure since they tried to stop German newspapers from printing an article about the Potato President. And to think the Polish minister of foreign affairs studied at Oxford and worked as a correspondent for The Economist. :frusty:
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Neil on April 12, 2013, 07:45:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.
Just more stupid Raz-tricks.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Valmy on April 12, 2013, 08:34:02 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 11, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
Time for a VI Republic :mmm:

Or Melenchon leading a Commune :mmm: :wub:

I'm amazed to see Germans agitating for a French Revolution :blink:

Yeah...no :( a Sixth Republic (or a Commune :frog:) would require a new ideology the people can rally behind and/or a charismatic leader people trust.  France is just engaged in the political malaise we all seem to be struggling with these days.

QuoteWho to replace them with? 77% of French people, according to a poll, think that all politicians are corrupt.

Heh only 77%?
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Agelastus on April 12, 2013, 09:13:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 12, 2013, 08:34:02 AM
QuoteWho to replace them with? 77% of French people, according to a poll, think that all politicians are corrupt.

Heh only 77%?

Presumably the rest are the ones who don't care enough to vote so don't see the need to have an opinion either way...
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Sheilbh on April 12, 2013, 10:14:32 AM
French for 'magic wand' is 'baguette magique'. This has made my day.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: fhdz on April 12, 2013, 11:13:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:05:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
hey you don't have to convince ME

That seems like a personal problem.  Fahdiz's party is a member of an international conservative group of political parties called International Democrat Union which includes the Republican party of the US and Conservative party of Britain.  Birds of a feather...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union

My party?
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: garbon on April 12, 2013, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 12, 2013, 11:13:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:05:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
hey you don't have to convince ME

That seems like a personal problem.  Fahdiz's party is a member of an international conservative group of political parties called International Democrat Union which includes the Republican party of the US and Conservative party of Britain.  Birds of a feather...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union

My party?

You can cry if you want to. :)
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: derspiess on April 12, 2013, 11:51:24 AM
Raz: get back on your meds.  Cards are back on at 8:15 (7:15 Central) tonight and we need your positive energy.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: KRonn on April 12, 2013, 12:24:36 PM
That Barbarian! How dare he have a Swiss bank account, while the commoners have to pay taxes!!   ;)
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Jacob on April 12, 2013, 12:36:18 PM
I read a Danish paper saying that a former editor of Le Monde - Edwy Plenel - is one of the driving forces behind these revelations, as they are coming from an investigative group called Mediaparts which he founded.

One thing I thought amusing as well is that, according to the article, Marine Le Pen of the FN was all indignant about the Swiss account and trying to cash in on the scandal politically. Then it was revealed that the lawyer who facilitated Cahuzac setting up the account is a good friend and political supporter of Marine, oh, and she has a Swiss bank account too which has put her on the defensive.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: fhdz on April 12, 2013, 12:37:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 06:46:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 12, 2013, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.

Fahdiz is Raz's new chew toy. spicy got wore out.

JR said Fahdiz was cause of the 2008 economic collapse and I take his word on economic thingies.  Admittedly, I asked him to say it, but I think it should still count.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: fhdz on April 12, 2013, 12:38:14 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 12, 2013, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 12, 2013, 11:13:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 04:05:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
hey you don't have to convince ME

That seems like a personal problem.  Fahdiz's party is a member of an international conservative group of political parties called International Democrat Union which includes the Republican party of the US and Conservative party of Britain.  Birds of a feather...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union

My party?

You can cry if you want to. :)

You would cry too if it happened to you.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Grallon on April 12, 2013, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 12, 2013, 08:34:02 AM
... France is just engaged in the political malaise we all seem to be struggling with these days.



Everywhere you turn you see the corruption and sclerosis bursting at the seems...  :glare:

The differences between this bout of elite gangrene and other previous historical examples is a) said elites control WMD and b) the masses behind them is proportionally vastly more educated than their predecessors.



G.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 05:08:45 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 12, 2013, 12:37:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2013, 06:46:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 12, 2013, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 12, 2013, 04:12:52 AM
I don't understand the relevance.

Fahdiz is Raz's new chew toy. spicy got wore out.

JR said Fahdiz was cause of the 2008 economic collapse and I take his word on economic thingies.  Admittedly, I asked him to say it, but I think it should still count.

What are you talking about?

Exactly what I said.  Back in 2008 when everyone was panicking about the economy we naturally had a discussion on the topic.  JR was listing some factors that he believed caused the crash, and I asked him to add "Fahdiz caused it" or something along those lines and he added that to the list.  Since I don't understand economics that well I accepted his explanation even though I asked him to list that explanation.  Unfortunately I don't think the forum records go back before 2009 so I can't link you to the discussion.

The ruling party of Hungary is called Fidesz,  which looks kinda like your name.  Thus it's Fahdiz's party.
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: fhdz on April 12, 2013, 05:11:46 PM
oh okay now it makes perfect sense
Title: Re: Trouble in Paris: A Crisis of Democracy Rocks the Fifth Republic
Post by: Jacob on April 12, 2013, 05:13:57 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 12, 2013, 05:11:46 PM
oh okay now it makes perfect sense

:lol: