Yet another apparent case of a couple abducting and murdering a little girl here in Ontario.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/20/tori-stafford.html
No body found yet.
Without a body or a confession, how do they know she was murdered?
Quote from: Neil on May 21, 2009, 10:51:32 AM
Without a body or a confession, how do they know she was murdered?
I have no idea. They haven't released many details yet, only the two arrests.
Sorry that the kid died. Although heartless as it is, the constant stream of "Tori" news was starting to annoy me.
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
Yes, but it is still chilling that a couple would do this. That is the connection I think Malthus was referring to.
gotcha.
There's not much details on this yet, and it appears we probably won't have any until the trial starts.
There are 2 big questions... Why? How?
Why did they kidnap the girl? Were they both pedophiles? If so, why kill her so soon?
How did she die? Was it an 'accident'? Did they plan to abuse her than kill her immediatly?
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
It's the abduction of a little girl by a couple that makes the paralell. Assuming they are in fact guilty, the truly strange part is that a couple would co-operate in such a crime.
Also assuming they are guilty and it was some sort of sex crime, chances are they would do it again if not caught; how many psychos rape and murder a kid and then decide that one was enough? The more usual pattern is to keep doing it.
Quote from: HVC on May 21, 2009, 11:11:05 AM
Sorry that the kid died. Although heartless as it is, the constant stream of "Tori" news was starting to annoy me.
Ah. Being out West, I had know idea who she was.
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
It's the abduction of a little girl by a couple that makes the paralell. Assuming they are in fact guilty, the truly strange part is that a couple would co-operate in such a crime.
Like attracts like.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2009, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
It's the abduction of a little girl by a couple that makes the paralell. Assuming they are in fact guilty, the truly strange part is that a couple would co-operate in such a crime.
Like attracts like.
I hate to think of what their online dating ads read like. :lol:
"I like romantic walks on the beach - and raping and killing little kids"
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2009, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
It's the abduction of a little girl by a couple that makes the paralell. Assuming they are in fact guilty, the truly strange part is that a couple would co-operate in such a crime.
Like attracts like.
I hate to think of what their online dating ads read like. :lol:
"I like romantic walks on the beach - and raping and killing little kids"
Valmy said once that he found it amazing how kids who had been abused already somehow attracted people who were willing to commit abuse. Almost as if the perpetrators had a sixth sense that allowed them to detect those kids. Perhaps they can detect people with the same interests the same way.
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 11:53:48 AM
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
woodstock is under 40K. this is rural ontario.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2009, 01:41:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2009, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 11:14:42 AM
Bernardo was a serial killer though and not into little kids. These suspects just have this one abduction correct?
It's the abduction of a little girl by a couple that makes the paralell. Assuming they are in fact guilty, the truly strange part is that a couple would co-operate in such a crime.
Like attracts like.
I hate to think of what their online dating ads read like. :lol:
"I like romantic walks on the beach - and raping and killing little kids"
Valmy said once that he found it amazing how kids who had been abused already somehow attracted people who were willing to commit abuse. Almost as if the perpetrators had a sixth sense that allowed them to detect those kids. Perhaps they can detect people with the same interests the same way.
I suspect there is something to it, but more like this: one person (generally the guy, but not always) is a domineering psychopath. He selects his GFs based on their willingness to do basically anything to please him, and over time through manipulation (and because the gf gets gratification from it) craft this person into a perfectly compliant slave, demanding more and more extreme acts from his slave as proof of her obedience and devotion. The logical end-point of such an arrangement is that she willingly help him obtain victims for rape and murder, this being just about the lowest possible point of human degredation one can reach (in Carla Holmoka's case, she helped him rape and murder her own sister, which is inventively vile).
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 01:54:33 PM
(in Carla Holmoka's case, she helped him rape and murder her own sister, which is inventively vile).
Wow :(
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 01:54:33 PM
(in Carla Holmoka's case, she helped him rape and murder her own sister, which is inventively vile).
Wasn't the killing supposedly an accident? I.e. they drugged the sister so the guy could rape her and they kinda overdosed her?
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2009, 02:02:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 01:54:33 PM
(in Carla Holmoka's case, she helped him rape and murder her own sister, which is inventively vile).
Wasn't the killing supposedly an accident? I.e. they drugged the sister so the guy could rape her and they kinda overdosed her?
Yup, though od'ing someone for the purpose of raping them counts as "murder" even if you don't mean for them to die.
Not to mention that they then went on to torture/rape/murder two more.
Quote from: Malthus on May 21, 2009, 02:08:27 PM
Yup, though od'ing someone for the purpose of raping them counts as "murder" even if you don't mean for them to die.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it'sd be murder in Germany, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Germany
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 11:53:48 AM
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
woodstock is under 40K. this is rural ontario.
anything above 5k is big city.
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 02:34:32 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 11:53:48 AM
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
woodstock is under 40K. this is rural ontario.
anything above 5k is big city.
:rolleyes:
To take this to the furthest extreme, we evolved as hunter gathers, therefor populations over 30 are big.
Quote from: Maximus on May 21, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
Not to mention that they then went on to torture/rape/murder two more.
AND they filmed it.
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 02:34:32 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 11:53:48 AM
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
woodstock is under 40K. this is rural ontario.
anything above 5k is big city.
downtown woodstock:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxford.net%2F%7Ecpackman%2Fwddn600.jpg&hash=b9b61cc16c0bce036c1420b54caa0521c645b35c)
your argument does not convince.
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 21, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
Not to mention that they then went on to torture/rape/murder two more.
AND they filmed it.
These cases all tend to follow a similar pattern. These people famously photographed and took sound recordings of their victims, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 02:34:32 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on May 21, 2009, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 21, 2009, 11:53:48 AM
I think we'll be seeing more of this as the population increase and people move more&more in the big cities. :(
woodstock is under 40K. this is rural ontario.
anything above 5k is big city.
Not at all. Around a million is a big city.
we're talking about viper37, villager afraid of the big world.
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2009, 05:02:19 PM
we're talking about viper37, villager afraid of the big world.
I know I shouldn't laugh Vip, but admit it, that was good. :lol:
You definately have a country boy complex about urban tropes.
G.
There are partner in crimes who are in it because of one partner totally dominates the other or coerce them to become accomplices under duress. But in these kinds of vicious murders or conspiracy to commit a crime, most partners are into it of their own free, twisted will.
Some, like Myra Hindley, Carol Bundy, or Karla Homolka, have aberrant personalities themselves without being full-blown psychopaths. They wouldn't do it by themselves, have some fantasies or kinks, but toxic, antisocial partners act like an enabler to them while sharing both responsability and something intimate.
An interesting case to dig in is Cynthia Hendy, who helped lover and sexual sadist David Parker Ray abduct women and torture them in his self-made torture shack. It is not clear whether she took active part or got her own kicks off it, but when interviewed she doesn't really seem to act like a victim, or show any remorse or affect that she was into it under duress.
You guys just wait until I find pix of the City of Melville, SK, pop 4677.
also, Martensville, SK, pop 4500, was allegedly home to a big satanism ring. day care/child abuse/missing bodies and all. turned out to be a smear job that took a life of its on, because stupid, gullible, people wanted it to happen.
yes, let's blame population growth since medieval times.