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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Martinus on February 22, 2013, 03:53:52 AM

Title: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2013, 03:53:52 AM
This is not another thread about words in your language that come from another language, but an attempt to see trends, e.g. groups of words or words associated with some form of human activity originating from another language. Is this recognizable in your language too?

In Polish, these are the most common foreign language influences, with the main "areas of expertise":

- English - all kinds of modern words from different areas, ranging from science, technology, popular culture and politics;
- Arabic - science, warfare and anything to do with Islam;
- French - fashion, warfare, food;
- German - law, construction, industry, crafts, politics, administration, city planning;
- Hebraic - religion, mysticism, food;
- Greek - science;
- Hungarian - warfare;
- Italian - food, music, art;
- Latin - law, administration, religion, science; and
- Turkish - warfare.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Icelandic purged foreign origin words a century ago (basically the one we don't find in the sagas). Concepts that lack words have icelandic words invented for them.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Liep on February 22, 2013, 07:13:37 AM
Are there rules for the invented words? Do they have to rely on older words? Morphology is the word I'm looking for, I think.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Josquius on February 22, 2013, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 22, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Icelandic purged foreign origin words a century ago (basically the one we don't find in the sagas). Concepts that lack words have icelandic words invented for them.
Always struck me as curious that.
How did they get rural farmers to agree that the thing they had formerly always known as X was now Y and X was a forbidden foreign word?
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: DGuller on February 22, 2013, 07:58:35 AM
When I visit my dad, and watch Russian TV channels, I'm surprised by how many English words are used in Russian language, lifted straight out.  There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.  This has to be a fairly recent phenomenon with a lot of them.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Liep on February 22, 2013, 08:02:56 AM
I love the russification of English. Айфон, бойфренд, бёздей.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2013, 08:23:49 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 22, 2013, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 22, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Icelandic purged foreign origin words a century ago (basically the one we don't find in the sagas). Concepts that lack words have icelandic words invented for them.
Always struck me as curious that.
How did they get rural farmers to agree that the thing they had formerly always known as X was now Y and X was a forbidden foreign word?

Well there are only about 400,000 speakers right?  So there probably were not that many rural farmers they needed to get onboard.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Valmy on February 22, 2013, 08:24:44 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 22, 2013, 08:02:56 AM
I love the russification of English. Айфон, бойфренд, бёздей.

Do you mean the Englishification or Russian?  Granted we probably have thousands of Russian words in English, we have thousands of every other language's words.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2013, 08:26:32 AM
Two new Polish words are "tweetować" and "lajkować".

Any guesses what they mean? :P
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: DGuller on February 22, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Tech word borrowing I can understand.  The technology originated in the English-speaking country after all.  Words like "boyfriend", on the other hand, have already existed in the Russian language, so in those cases it just looks like an inferior culture borrowing from a superior culture.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Martinus on February 22, 2013, 08:36:08 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 22, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Tech word borrowing I can understand.  The technology originated in the English-speaking country after all.  Words like "boyfriend", on the other hand, have already existed in the Russian language, so in those cases it just looks like an inferior culture borrowing from a superior culture.

True. I heard words like "to kiss" have also been borrowed in Russian (e.g. "kissovat") which sounds very weird.

Could it be that Russia is so illiberal/obscurantist that young people develop their own slang, to be able to talk freely? Sorta like polari in anti-gay Britain.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2013, 08:55:10 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 22, 2013, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 22, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Icelandic purged foreign origin words a century ago (basically the one we don't find in the sagas). Concepts that lack words have icelandic words invented for them.
Always struck me as curious that.
How did they get rural farmers to agree that the thing they had formerly always known as X was now Y and X was a forbidden foreign word?

We had a language council. They operated on the principle that if the word was in the sagas it was genuine. Icelandic nationalism was centered on the language, so our nationalist leaders were either linguists or well versed in the subject.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2013, 08:56:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 22, 2013, 08:23:49 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 22, 2013, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 22, 2013, 06:39:16 AM
Icelandic purged foreign origin words a century ago (basically the one we don't find in the sagas). Concepts that lack words have icelandic words invented for them.
Always struck me as curious that.
How did they get rural farmers to agree that the thing they had formerly always known as X was now Y and X was a forbidden foreign word?

Well there are only about 400,000 speakers right?  So there probably were not that many rural farmers they needed to get onboard.

300,000

but much fewer in the 1890s
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 22, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Tech word borrowing I can understand.  The technology originated in the English-speaking country after all.  Words like "boyfriend", on the other hand, have already existed in the Russian language, so in those cases it just looks like an inferior culture borrowing from a superior culture.

Well that is sorta what is happening.  English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.

English roughs up other languages to see if they have any spare words.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: PDH on February 22, 2013, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.

English roughs up other languages to see if they have any spare words.

No.  English just waltzes in, puts its muddy feet up on the furniture, and says "I like that, that, that, and that.  I'll take them.  Oh by the way, I am staying."
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:51:54 AM
Quote from: PDH on February 22, 2013, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.

English roughs up other languages to see if they have any spare words.

No.  English just waltzes in, puts its muddy feet up on the furniture, and says "I like that, that, that, and that.  I'll take them.  Oh by the way, I am staying."

:lol:
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2013, 09:53:10 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.

English roughs up other languages to see if they have any spare words.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.joyreactor.com%2Fpics%2Fpost%2Fauto-202038.jpeg&hash=6a611b55bf81978b6d6c1b59d6011dec768758f9)
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: mongers on February 22, 2013, 10:30:09 AM
Quote from: PDH on February 22, 2013, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on February 22, 2013, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 22, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
English borrows from other languages so often that it's often not not known that a new word is borrowed or from where.

English roughs up other languages to see if they have any spare words.

No.  English just waltzes in, puts its muddy feet up on the furniture, and says "I like that, that, that, and that.  I'll take them.  Oh by the way, I am staying."

:lol:
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Much of Castillian comes of course from Latin.
Though the occupying Visigoths largely adopted local culture, there might be also some Germanic influence, at least when it comes to names (Rodríguez = son of Roderick).
There are many Arab words, introduced during the 800 years of the Muslim rule. You can identify a lot of those because they start with the 'al' ('the') prefix (aljibe, alcazar, algodón, alforja, almacén).
There's also Basque influence, since it was widely spoken in the places and time where Castillian was developed (Burgos, Alava, La Rioja).
There are some American words, mostly for produce that came from the continent during the conquest and then spread out to other languages (tomate, chocolate).
There are probably some French, Italian and German words somewhere but I'm too lazy to check it out.
And of course there's the usual late influx of English words.
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Tonitrus on February 24, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on February 22, 2013, 08:36:08 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 22, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Tech word borrowing I can understand.  The technology originated in the English-speaking country after all.  Words like "boyfriend", on the other hand, have already existed in the Russian language, so in those cases it just looks like an inferior culture borrowing from a superior culture.

True. I heard words like "to kiss" have also been borrowed in Russian (e.g. "kissovat") which sounds very weird.

Could it be that Russia is so illiberal/obscurantist that young people develop their own slang, to be able to talk freely? Sorta like polari in anti-gay Britain.

I've never seen the verb for "to kiss" neglected like that, but "boyfriend" is quite a bit.  Though, DG, is there an actual word for boyfriend?  I usually would just see what is the literal translation of "my guy", or "my man". 
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: DGuller on February 24, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 24, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
I've never seen the verb for "to kiss" neglected like that, but "boyfriend" is quite a bit.  Though, DG, is there an actual word for boyfriend?  I usually would just see what is the literal translation of "my guy", or "my man".
:hmm:  Good point.  I can't think of any now that I think about it.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Tonitrus on February 24, 2013, 01:31:31 PM
I think it's the same for girlfriends.  I remember causing confusion problems with my teachers when trying to refer to a platonic female friend as "подруга", as that seems to have the connotation of "girlfriend" (if you're a guy, anyway).  And still am not 100% sure whether to use that word, or just simply "друг" (which usually seems refers to a male). 
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: garbon on February 24, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.

And yet it exists.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.

And yet it exists.

It's a place for crotchety old academics to try hard to keep up to date with the XXth century. It has little to no effect on the language spoken in real life.
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Sheilbh on February 24, 2013, 02:52:13 PM
I love the Academie Francaise. Any organisation run by unanimously elected Immortals is admirable :lol:

And they recently got a British member:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/22/academie-francaise-elect-first-british-member
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: garbon on February 24, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.

And yet it exists.

It's a place for crotchety old academics to try hard to keep up to date with the XXth century. It has little to no effect on the language spoken in real life.

Is Iorm crotchety?
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 03:27:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.

And yet it exists.

It's a place for crotchety old academics to try hard to keep up to date with the XXth century. It has little to no effect on the language spoken in real life.

Is Iorm crotchety?

It's the academics the ones that are crotchety, not the people who listen to them.  :P
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Iormlund on February 24, 2013, 03:56:35 PM
In my defense, I only listen to them when they agree with me. ;)
Title: Re: Trends of foreign-origin words in your mother tongue
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 24, 2013, 06:27:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 24, 2013, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on February 22, 2013, 03:25:22 PM
Most disturbing though, the Royal Academy has lately embraced Latinamerican dialects, an act which everyone should obviously disregard as foolish and crazy.

More disturbing is having an insitition regulating language.

It's not as if we really listen to it too much, anyway.

And yet it exists.

It's a place for crotchety old academics to try hard to keep up to date with the XXth century. It has little to no effect on the language spoken in real life.

Is Iorm crotchety?

:yes: