I hope so, but I doubt it.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/19/17019470-penny-pinching-can-obama-manage-elimination-of-one-cent-coin?lite
QuotePenny pinching: Can Obama manage elimination of one-cent coin?
By Ali Weinberg, NBC News
President Barack Obama finally broke his silence on an issue of national importance Friday – he thinks it's time to retire the penny.
The possible extinction of the one-cent coin was a featured economic question in a Google+ Hangout with the Commander in Chief last week as John Green, the co-creator of a popular YouTube channel, applied a little presidential peer pressure.
"Australia, Canada, New Zealand, many other countries have gotten rid of their pennies," Green said. "Why haven't we done it?"
"I gotta tell you, John, I don't know," Obama responded, adding, "Anytime we're spending money on something people don't actually use, that's an example of things we should probably change."
But why should anyone care? They're pennies. Aren't there more valuable things to worry about?
First, pennies actually cost more to make than they're worth. In 2012, every penny cost 2.41 cents to make – more than twice their face value.
And as zinc and copper – materials used in minting the penny – have become costlier due, in part, to manufacturing shifts in China, which are likely to raise costs further.
Granted, the total cost of minting pennies was only $58 million last year – less than one-tenth of a percent of total federal spending in 2012 – but groups like Citizens to Retire the U.S. Penny have long been making the economic case for getting rid of the penny (plus, the group adds, fishing for pennies adds about 2 seconds to each cash transaction per day).
And the U.S. military has already decided they're essentially useless; all Army and Air Force Exchange Service stores on bases round all cash purchases up or down to the nearest nickel.
With both parties looking for ways to cut government spending, it seems as though cutting penny production could be a relatively painless, if insignificant, place to start. But in the Google+ Hangout, Obama ceded that Washington has bigger fiscal fish to fry.
"The penny is an example of something that I need legislation for," he said. "And, frankly, given all of the big issues that we have to deal with day-in/day-out, a lot of times it just doesn't -- you know, we're not able to get to it."
There have actually been efforts to pass penny-banning legislation. Back in 2001, then-Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-AZ) introduced the "Legal Tender Modernization Act," which would have made pennies obsolete by requiring retailers to round up or down to the nearest nickel on cash purchases.
That bill failed, and Kolbe's second attempt in 2006, the "Currency Overhaul for an Industrious Nation (COIN) Act," after zinc costs nearly doubled, met a similar fate.
But the president doesn't need Congress to explore other, cheaper alternatives to zinc – the main metal in pennies. In fact, the administration's 2013 budget encourages the Treasury to "explore, analyze, and approve new, less-expensive metals for all circulating coins like aluminum, iron and lead."
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It wouldn't be the first time Abe Lincoln's coin got a makeover. Back in 1982, the penny changed from 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper.
(And lest so-called "penny hoarders" try to melt that valuable pre-1982 copper down, the Mint in 2006 prohibited the melting of pennies and nickels. It also made it a crime to carry more than $5 in one and five-cent coins out of the country).
Changes to the composition of pennies do have Congressional champions: Ohio Rep. Steve Stivers (R) introduced the "Cents and Sensibility Act" in December 2011, which would mandate that pennies were out of American steel (much of which comes from the Buckeye State) and dipped in copper.
But these efforts will be met with some serious resistance from the zinc lobby (yes, there is one). The company Jarden Zinc, which creates "metal and zinc coinage," according to its website, paid lobbyist Mark Weller $340,000 in 2012 to discuss issues related to "minting/money/gold standard" with members of Congress and the Mint, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Weller also represents the pro-penny group Americans for Common Cents, whose website warns of the risk of inflation that eliminating the penny would bring, and whose headquarters are on K Street, known for its many D.C. lobbyist offices.
"Americans for Common Cents aims to inform and educate policymakers, consumers, and the media about the penny's economic, cultural, and historical significance," the group's website reads.
The political power of the penny is likely another reason Obama hasn't acted on getting rid of it. As far back as 2008, when he was still a candidate, the "penny lobby" appeared to mystify Obama.
Asked about it at a town hall in Pennsylvania, he said, "We have been trying to eliminate the penny for quite some time -- it always comes back," joking, "I need to find out who is lobbying to keep the penny."
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:51 PM EST
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 20, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
It also made it a crime to carry more than $5 in one and five-cent coins out of the country).
:bleeding:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 20, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
I hope so, but I doubt it.
I hope you're beaten with a pillow case of them.
I can do pillow case full of door knobs, pennies may not work so well.
Makes sense.
Its strange but I can't recall ever hearing of the penny being an issue in the UK but I have seen it from time to time about America. Its almost as stupid for Britain as for the US. :hmm:
Sweden got rid of the closest equivalent 20 years ago. :showoff:
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2013, 03:25:33 AM
Sweden got rid of the closest equivalent 20 years ago. :showoff:
Different situation though. Swedish currency was never valuable in small amounts.
I think there is a set of reforms that individually are probably not that big of a deal, but taken together it seems crazy that we have not done them yet.
Ditch the penny.
Ditch the dollar bill, replace with dollar coin. We keep trying new dollar coins, but they won't even catch on until you get rid of the dollar bill.
Switch to fucking metric already. Seriously. We are STILL using antiquated English measurements? I wonder how much that costs every year in lost efficiency.
Others?
So I saw this on the Canadian case on wiki:
QuoteA 2007 survey indicated that only 37 percent of Canadians used pennies, but the government continued to produce about 816 million pennies per year, equal to 25 pennies per Canadian.
What does use mean here? Inevitably if I pay for something in cash, I'm going to get some pennies and every so often if I haven't cleared out my bag, might use one.
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
Ditch the dollar bill, replace with dollar coin. We keep trying new dollar coins, but they won't even catch on until you get rid of the dollar bill.
While I can understand that for government costs - why would individuals want to support that? More annoying to carry dollar coins than bills.
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
Switch to fucking metric already. Seriously. We are STILL using antiquated English measurements? I wonder how much that costs every year in lost efficiency.
Same as the above. Might help someone save costs but why would individuals trained on English measurements want to learn the metric system as a daily replacement?
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
I think there is a set of reforms that individually are probably not that big of a deal, but taken together it seems crazy that we have not done them yet.
Ditch the penny.
Ditch the dollar bill, replace with dollar coin. We keep trying new dollar coins, but they won't even catch on until you get rid of the dollar bill.
Switch to fucking metric already. Seriously. We are STILL using antiquated English measurements? I wonder how much that costs every year in lost efficiency.
Others?
I'm with you on the penny, but not the rest. I don't carry coins; and I don't have a wallet to accomodate them. Bills are much easier. I'm willing to pay in taxes the extra $2.00 or whatever my share is to keep the dollar bill.
Also, english measurements aren't antiquated if we still use them. In some cases they even have advantages over metric. The cost of rocking the boat is probably more than any efficiencies that would be gained.
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 08:34:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2013, 03:25:33 AM
Sweden got rid of the closest equivalent 20 years ago. :showoff:
Different situation though. Swedish currency was never valuable in small amounts.
What do you mean? The 10
öre coin was worth more than the penny.
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 02:58:02 AM
Makes sense.
Its strange but I can't recall ever hearing of the penny being an issue in the UK but I have seen it from time to time about America. Its almost as stupid for Britain as for the US. :hmm:
Its strange that you wouldn't know about the controversy over the tiddler (the half-penny, which was the equivalent of the US penny), you being British and all, but, then, again, the tiddler was before your time and what Brit knows any of Britain's actual history?
Ironically, the argument over the tiddler was the exact opposite of the argument over the US penny; the public disliked the tiddler and the government liked it.
Part of the reason why the public hated the tiddler was its size, though. Since British coins (within metal class) were proportional in weight to their value (a normally good idea) the tiddler had to be made half the weight of a penny and a quarter the weight of the tuppence. If the tuppence was to be kept a reasonable weight, the tiddler had to be too small and easy to lose. They were only in circulation for a dozen years or so.
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
Switch to fucking metric already. Seriously. We are STILL using antiquated English measurements? I wonder how much that costs every year in lost efficiency.
It costs us 10% in production efficiency and 10% in trade efficiency.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:22:56 AM
While I can understand that for government costs - why would individuals want to support that? More annoying to carry dollar coins than bills.
There are people who have more than a small amount of 1s at any one time? Highly doubtful. If people were still using cash in those small denominations to a large degree I could see your point here but should we really be spending millions because it is marginally more convenient to have 2 pieces of paper instead of 2 pieces of metal?
Quote from: Valmy on February 20, 2013, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:22:56 AM
While I can understand that for government costs - why would individuals want to support that? More annoying to carry dollar coins than bills.
There are people who have more than a small amount of 1s at any one time? Highly doubtful. If people were still using cash in those small denominations to a large degree I could see your point here but should we really be spending millions because it is marginally more convenient to have 2 pieces of paper instead of 2 pieces of metal?
Actually, I do routinely end up with a bunch of ones when I go out at night. Lots of bars are cash only. I can say going to a gay bar in NYC and getting ones back is not nearly as annoying as going to one in Montreal and ending with a pocket full of change.
Just checked, I've actually 15 ones in my wallet.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:21:12 AM
So I saw this on the Canadian case on wiki:
QuoteA 2007 survey indicated that only 37 percent of Canadians used pennies, but the government continued to produce about 816 million pennies per year, equal to 25 pennies per Canadian.
What does use mean here? Inevitably if I pay for something in cash, I'm going to get some pennies and every so often if I haven't cleared out my bag, might use one.
My guess is many Canadians don't use cash on a daily basis. I certainly didn't.
Quote from: Maximus on February 20, 2013, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:21:12 AM
So I saw this on the Canadian case on wiki:
QuoteA 2007 survey indicated that only 37 percent of Canadians used pennies, but the government continued to produce about 816 million pennies per year, equal to 25 pennies per Canadian.
What does use mean here? Inevitably if I pay for something in cash, I'm going to get some pennies and every so often if I haven't cleared out my bag, might use one.
My guess is many Canadians don't use cash on a daily basis. I certainly didn't.
Maybe but then despite what I've said here, I don't usually use cash on a daily basis either (and as I said only infrequently ever have pennies on me). Still don't think I'd say I don't use pennies if asked.
Yeah, Canada is far more cashless than the US.
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 11:48:59 AM
Yeah, Canada is far more cashless than the US.
I don't know. We are pretty cashless.
Quote from: Valmy on February 20, 2013, 11:51:09 AM
I don't know. We are pretty cashless.
We're still well behind where Canada was 10 years ago on this. It's possible that things have gone backward since I left, but I doubt it.
Meh. dollar and two-dollar coins in the pocket simply are not a big deal.
What happens is that they are valuable enough that you actually spend them. Unlike the pennies and nickels, which tend to accumulate like dandruff - those get thrown in a jar when they start to weigh the pocket down too much.
Grousing about dollar coins while being okay with smaller change = silly. :P
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 11:58:07 AM
Meh. dollar and two-dollar coins in the pocket simply are not a big deal.
What happens is that they are valuable enough that you actually spend them. Unlike the pennies and nickels, which tend to accumulate like dandruff - those get thrown in a jar when they start to weigh the pocket down too much.
Grousing about dollar coins while being okay with smaller change = silly. :P
I actually don't like change at all. I generally collect it in jars at home (well previously I used to just throw it on the ground -_-). That's actually why I oppose this as it'd make me more inclined to view the dollar coins as useless. Always have to remind myself they are not when traveling abroad (especially given that they are usually worth more than 1 USD).
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 12:04:09 PM
I actually don't like change at all. I generally collect it in jars at home (well previously I used to just throw it on the ground -_-). That's actually why I oppose this as it'd make me more inclined to view the dollar coins as useless. Always have to remind myself they are not when traveling abroad (especially given that they are usually worth more than 1 USD).
You are complaining about having useful coins because it would upset your worldview that coins are useless? :hmm:
It won't take long, if you have coins worth $1 and $2 USD, to get used to the notion that some coins have value (and utility!)
Yeah, the basic argument against the dollar coin is that coins are not worth worrying about...?
Huh?
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 12:10:41 PM
Yeah, the basic argument against the dollar coin is that coins are not worth worrying about...?
Huh?
Coins are a lot easier to lose. Though I guess that's a good thing for homeless people with metal detectors.
Personally I'd love more widespread use of dollar coins.
The biggest barrier to adoption of the metric system, IMO, would be having to convert thousands and thousands of preexisting measurements. That'd be quite a project. I suppose it could also be a business opportunity for an enterprising group of people though...
Quote from: fahdiz on February 20, 2013, 12:46:11 PM
Personally I'd love more widespread use of dollar coins.
The biggest barrier to adoption of the metric system, IMO, would be having to convert thousands and thousands of preexisting measurements. That'd be quite a project. I suppose it could also be a business opportunity for an enterprising group of people though...
30 years out and Canada is still mixed on our use of metric. I couldn't tell you how high I am or what I weight in metric, for example.
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2013, 12:47:52 PM
30 years out and Canada is still mixed on our use of metric. I couldn't tell you how high I am or what I weight in metric, for example.
Can you tell me how high you are in grams of weed?
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2013, 12:47:52 PM
30 years out and Canada is still mixed on our use of metric. I couldn't tell you how high I am or what I weight in metric, for example.
I thought drugs were sold by the kilogram. :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 12:04:09 PM
I actually don't like change at all. I generally collect it in jars at home (well previously I used to just throw it on the ground -_-). That's actually why I oppose this as it'd make me more inclined to view the dollar coins as useless. Always have to remind myself they are not when traveling abroad (especially given that they are usually worth more than 1 USD).
You are complaining about having useful coins because it would upset your worldview that coins are useless? :hmm:
It won't take long, if you have coins worth $1 and $2 USD, to get used to the notion that some coins have value (and utility!)
I'm saying that as it currently stands, coin in general seem not useful and a pain to carry. You're right that it'd change my point of view that coins could be useful but it wouldn't make them easier to carry.
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 12:10:41 PM
Yeah, the basic argument against the dollar coin is that coins are not worth worrying about...?
Huh?
No pretty sure up until the post he quoted - I was pretty clear on the fact that it is annoying to carry around coins vs. paper.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 12:09:12 PM
You are complaining about having useful coins because it would upset your worldview that coins are useless? :hmm:
It won't take long, if you have coins worth $1 and $2 USD, to get used to the notion that some coins have value (and utility!)
I'm with garbon on this. It isn't that I have a worldview that coins are useless, it is that coins are more awkward to carry. I rarely use cash, but I carry a bit with me for tips and the few places that don't take cards. I don't carry change, and if I get some at a lunch counter or somewhere I just give it as a tip.
I have a very small card case where I keep a license, a few credit cards, and a $20 bill or two. It is much easier to carry that (and do away with a billfold/wallet completely) when you don't have nonstandard sized coins to worry about--a couple pieces of foldable paper are lighter and more convenient.
Quote from: fahdiz on February 20, 2013, 12:46:11 PM
Personally I'd love more widespread use of dollar coins.
Me too. I think they're cool.
QuoteThe biggest barrier to adoption of the metric system, IMO, would be having to convert thousands and thousands of preexisting measurements. That'd be quite a project. I suppose it could also be a business opportunity for an enterprising group of people though...
That would take more than an entire generation to accomplish.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 20, 2013, 01:16:14 PM
That would take more than an entire generation to accomplish.
Exactly...there are consultancies waiting to be born there. An enterprising general contractor could probably make quite a bit of money in that niche market, like software companies who focus on older systems for the inevitable conversion to more modern systems.
Of course, the other thing that might take generations to accomplish is GETTING AMERICANS TO ACTUALLY SWITCH TO A SYSTEM WHICH MAKES SENSE FOR FUCK'S SAKE
It doesn't make sense, and it's where it belongs: with filthy Europeans and Canadians.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 20, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
It doesn't make sense, and it's where it belongs: with filthy Europeans and Canadians.
Oh, come on...who doesn't want a 17.78 cm dick?
Personally, I'm more likely to have coins on me than paper money. I might needs coins for a soft drink vending machine or the like. (Sure, most of those have dollar bill changers nowdays, but getting the bills to actually feed into them is a pain in the butt more often than not.)
I can't remember the last time I used a vending machine.
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2013, 01:28:42 PM
Personally, I'm more likely to have coins on me than paper money. I might needs coins for a soft drink vending machine or the like. (Sure, most of those have dollar bill changers nowdays, but getting the bills to actually feed into them is a pain in the butt more often than not.)
Those machines are more likely than not going to take credit cards in the future.
Yuck. I don't like change.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2013, 01:28:42 PM
Personally, I'm more likely to have coins on me than paper money. I might needs coins for a soft drink vending machine or the like. (Sure, most of those have dollar bill changers nowdays, but getting the bills to actually feed into them is a pain in the butt more often than not.)
Those machines are more likely than not going to take credit cards in the future.
Yeah, I wish that they'd hurry up with that. I've seen a few, but only a very few. The only place I specifally remember seeing them is the main Post Office in Charleston.
Paying by SMS is fairly common here I think (I never buy from vending machines so I don't pay much attention).
Quote from: fahdiz on February 20, 2013, 01:27:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 20, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
It doesn't make sense, and it's where it belongs: with filthy Europeans and Canadians.
Oh, come on...who doesn't want a 17.78 cm dick?
That just sounds creepy.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 12:09:12 PM
You are complaining about having useful coins because it would upset your worldview that coins are useless? :hmm:
It won't take long, if you have coins worth $1 and $2 USD, to get used to the notion that some coins have value (and utility!)
I'm with garbon on this. It isn't that I have a worldview that coins are useless, it is that coins are more awkward to carry. I rarely use cash, but I carry a bit with me for tips and the few places that don't take cards. I don't carry change, and if I get some at a lunch counter or somewhere I just give it as a tip.
I have a very small card case where I keep a license, a few credit cards, and a $20 bill or two. It is much easier to carry that (and do away with a billfold/wallet completely) when you don't have nonstandard sized coins to worry about--a couple pieces of foldable paper are lighter and more convenient.
Well sure, if you don't use cash except as an emergency stash and immediately get rid of all change you don't care for dollar coins. What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 12:09:12 PM
You are complaining about having useful coins because it would upset your worldview that coins are useless? :hmm:
It won't take long, if you have coins worth $1 and $2 USD, to get used to the notion that some coins have value (and utility!)
I'm with garbon on this. It isn't that I have a worldview that coins are useless, it is that coins are more awkward to carry. I rarely use cash, but I carry a bit with me for tips and the few places that don't take cards. I don't carry change, and if I get some at a lunch counter or somewhere I just give it as a tip.
I have a very small card case where I keep a license, a few credit cards, and a $20 bill or two. It is much easier to carry that (and do away with a billfold/wallet completely) when you don't have nonstandard sized coins to worry about--a couple pieces of foldable paper are lighter and more convenient.
Well sure, if you don't use cash except as an emergency stash and immediately get rid of all change you don't care for dollar coins. What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
Well you've sort of hit the nail on the head, to mix one's expressions, the main reason for change it a state/social one, it saving money and is harder to counterfeit, whereas most people respond with their view/experience based on what they want out of it.
And one or two of those have a so blinkered personal view that they can't accept or comprehend others might have different ways of dealing with coins/notes.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
Well sure, if you don't use cash except as an emergency stash and immediately get rid of all change you don't care for dollar coins. What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of the misapprehensions of the two sides in the dollar coin versus dollar bill debate.
Your misapprehension appears to be that, if dollar coins are introduced in the US, they will have no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins. I believe that you are wrong; that the proposal is that dollar coins
replace dollar bills. Thus, even you should be able to understand why some people object to the "very existence" of such coins.
I think the misapprehension of people like Garbon is that the "very existence" of one-euro coins or one-loonie coins will have any significant impact on the probability of one-dollar coins. The arguments in favor of it carry little weight with anyone I know (even if a coin or bill costs more than an alternative to create and maintain, mints are not profit-making institutions to begin with). The arguments against (that the U.S. public has demonstrated overwhelmingly that it prefers the bill to the coin) seem carry the day no matter what Canada's coinage is like.
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
one-loonie coins
Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd. The $1 coin is called a loonie, because it was a loon on it. It's much the same as the $0.25 coin being called a quarter - that's just the name of the coin. The $2 coin is called, somewhat unimaginatively, a toonie.
Our currency is still the dollar.
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
I think the misapprehension of people like Garbon is that the "very existence" of one-euro coins or one-loonie coins will have any significant impact on the probability of one-dollar coins.
I do? I thought I was just voicing my dislike of dollar coins and Berkut's thought that we should replace our dollar bills with coins? :unsure:
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
Well sure, if you don't use cash except as an emergency stash and immediately get rid of all change you don't care for dollar coins. What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of the misapprehensions of the two sides in the dollar coin versus dollar bill debate.
Your misapprehension appears to be that, if dollar coins are introduced in the US, they will have no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins. I believe that you are wrong; that the proposal is that dollar coins replace dollar bills. Thus, even you should be able to understand why some people object to the "very existence" of such coins.
No, I'm replying to a guy who
doesn't like using cash at all, except for " ... a $20 bill or two" as an emergency stash for places that are cash-only where his credit card is no good. I said nothing whatsoever about dollar coins having "no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins". That's something you invented. Even you should understand that labelling something I've not said as a "misapprehension" is a misapprehension on your part, not on mine.
I can't imagine many are going to be carrying a couple of individual dollar bills as an emergency stash. :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
I think Grumbler said that bit right to you. I don't think Freddie or I care that they exist and people use them - after all, the US already has dollar coins that often are dispensed at transit ticket machines.
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
one-loonie coins
Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd. The $1 coin is called a loonie, because it was a loon on it. It's much the same as the $0.25 coin being called a quarter - that's just the name of the coin. The $2 coin is called, somewhat unimaginatively, a toonie.
Our currency is still the dollar.
The quarter is actually called the "quarter", though. It's printed on the coin.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
I think Grumbler said that bit right to you. I don't think Freddie or I care that they exist and people use them - after all, the US already has dollar coins that often are dispensed at transit ticket machines.
Nope, he got both bits wrong. See my response above.
Key here is "I don't get why
this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.". I'm not saying that there are
no valid objections, only that 'I hate using cash and only ever carry a couple of 20s'
isn't one.
A dime isn't printed on a dime though. It's just what everyone calls a 10 cent coin.
Similarly, a loonie is just the nickname for the 1 dollar Canadian coin. And, sadly, the nick for a 2 dollar coin is a "toonie". I'd have preferred the "doubloon" myself! :pirate
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:38:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
What's the objection to *others* using them, though?
I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.
I think Grumbler said that bit right to you. I don't think Freddie or I care that they exist and people use them - after all, the US already has dollar coins that often are dispensed at transit ticket machines.
Nope, he got both bits wrong. See my response above.
Key here is "I don't get why this is a valid objection to such coins' very existence.". I'm not saying that there are no valid objections, only that 'I hate using cash and only ever carry a couple of 20s' isn't one.
I think grumbler is splitting a hair that you didn't intend then. I can see how your statement is unclear as the coins can exist and also
not replace the bill - but that isn't what is being discussed.
Though back to what you were saying, presumably if Alfred uses his 20 at a place that doesn't take card, he's going to get ones back right? What would be more useful to him, put those couple of ones back in his compact wallet or in a change jar at home? :hmm:
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:40:56 PM
A dime isn't printed on a dime though. It's just what everyone calls a 10 cent coin.
It is; the back of each dime says "ONE DIME".
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:41:48 PM
Though back to what you were saying, presumably if Alfred uses his 20 at a place that doesn't take card, he's going to get ones back right? What would be more useful to him, put those couple of ones back in his compact wallet or in a change jar at home? :hmm:
Also to follow-up. I have a wallet that is actually pretty slim (Big Skinny) and it is much easier for me to carry the 15 ones that I got back as change throughout the course of a night (as I had only had 20s) then it would be to have all $15 sitting as coins in my pocket or sitting at home in a change jar collecting dust.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:41:48 PM
I think grumbler is splitting a hair that you didn't intend then.
Though back to what you were saying, presumably if Alfred uses his 20 at a place that doesn't take card, he's going to get ones back right? What would be more useful to him, put those couple of ones back in his compact wallet or in a change jar at home? :hmm:
He's going to get change in the form of coins if he uses his emergency stash no matter what. All that happens if he hates the very thought of carrying coins, is that the sizes of his tips increase. :lol:
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:21:12 AM
What does use mean here? Inevitably if I pay for something in cash, I'm going to get some pennies and every so often if I haven't cleared out my bag, might use one.
It means 63% of Canadians either pay with credit/debit card or with bills without using coins, wich would go straight to your little piggie bank until there's enough to fill a roll.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:45:19 PM
He's going to get change in the form of coins if he uses his emergency stash no matter what. All that happens if he hates the very thought of carrying coins, is that the sizes of his tips increase. :lol:
Why should he want the size of his tips to increase? :P
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 09:22:56 AM
While I can understand that for government costs - why would individuals want to support that? More annoying to carry dollar coins than bills.
Offer the choice: a tax hike or dollar coins ;)
Quote from: Berkut on February 20, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
Same as the above. Might help someone save costs but why would individuals trained on English measurements want to learn the metric system as a daily replacement?
Oh, they won't. They will resist, complain, bitch and moan for the next 50 years. But eventualy, people will look back and wonder why we ever used such an antiquated system.
There was quite a lot of opposition in Canada. Eventually, the law came and... people adjusted. So long as we have quarter pounders in McD, everything's ok ;)
Quote from: fahdiz on February 20, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:40:56 PM
A dime isn't printed on a dime though. It's just what everyone calls a 10 cent coin.
It is; the back of each dime says "ONE DIME".
Heh, my mistake. The Canadian one just says "10 cents".
Does your 5 cent piece say "one nickel" on it?
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:47:39 PM
Heh, my mistake. The Canadian one just says "10 cents".
Does your 5 cent piece say "one nickel" on it?
Oddly, that one says "FIVE CENTS".
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 09:30:48 AM
I'm with you on the penny, but not the rest. I don't carry coins; and I don't have a wallet to accomodate them. Bills are much easier. I'm willing to pay in taxes the extra $2.00 or whatever my share is to keep the dollar bill.
The question is why do you carry cash? And why small bills? I have my cards, I have a few 20$ bills from the ATM, but that's all.
I'm not gonna carry 100$ on me in 1$ dollar coins. Never did that with bills in the past.
Quote
In some cases they even have advantages over metric.
Please, make a list?
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
Offer the choice: a tax hike or dollar coins ;)
The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
Oh, they won't. They will resist, complain, bitch and moan for the next 50 years. But eventualy, people will look back and wonder why we ever used such an antiquated system.
There was quite a lot of opposition in Canada. Eventually, the law came and... people adjusted. So long as we have quarter pounders in McD, everything's ok ;)
Same story as above but even more so given that there would be a large cost expenditure in order to switch both private and governmental.
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
The question is why do you carry cash? And why small bills? I have my cards, I have a few 20$ bills from the ATM, but that's all.
I'm not gonna carry 100$ on me in 1$ dollar coins. Never did that with bills in the past.
Continue reading the thread, he said why he ends up with cash on him. ;)
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:41:48 PM
Though back to what you were saying, presumably if Alfred uses his 20 at a place that doesn't take card, he's going to get ones back right? What would be more useful to him, put those couple of ones back in his compact wallet or in a change jar at home? :hmm:
This is basically it...In the US the majority of my cash use is probably to tip people or pay tolls (and I keep change in my car for that). If I give a $10 to a valet for a $2 tip, I might get back 8 $1 bills, which is much more convenient than 8 $1 coins.
When I am in places that use coins more frequently, I just leave the coins loose in my pocket.
It isn't that big of a deal one way or the other, but all else being equal I'd rather not deal with cash at all, and in those instances I need to, I'd rather stick with paper.
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Please, make a list?
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:51:16 PM
The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?
There is this, for what it's worth - other countries have made the change to (a) having equivalent to dollar coins; and (b) getting rid of equivalent to pennies.
I've never heard anyone from these other countries ever remark 'you know, that was a mistake. We need to being back small denomination bills and coins'.
Maybe some do, but the overwhelming consensus of those
who have actually used both systems on a daily basis for themselves is that eliminating small bills and coins is preferable. As well as, of course, being cheaper in the form of saving tax dollars.
Now, we all know Americans are special, and so cannot learn from other's experience as it has zero validity for them, but insofar as these things can be "demonstrated" ...
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Please, make a list?
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:59:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:51:16 PM
The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?
There is this, for what it's worth - other countries have made the change to (a) having equivalent to dollar coins; and (b) getting rid of equivalent to pennies.
I've never heard anyone from these other countries ever remark 'you know, that was a mistake. We need to being back small denomination bills and coins'.
Maybe some do, but the overwhelming consensus of those who have actually used both systems on a daily basis for themselves is that eliminating small bills and coins is preferable. As well as, of course, being cheaper in the form of saving tax dollars.
Now, we all know Americans are special, and so cannot learn from other's experience as it has zero validity for them, but insofar as these things can be "demonstrated" ...
Alright hit me with it (as my initial objection was phrased as a question - I think) - what beyond the savings in tax dollars is better for the individual about turning small bills into coins?
I'm not going to argue the penny front as I already said change is useless so I don't care if that goes away. :D
I suspect part of people's reactions to coins and bill/notes, might rest on how they were taught, or not, to deal with coins/counting in school and by their parents.
I do dimly recall being taught maths involving coins an examples and we might actually have played out scenarios in school. I guess I grew up thinking it natural when you buy something, you can work out the expected change and more importantly know what combination of coins to make to give the shop exact change/payment.
Perhaps this isn't so common nowadays or that that level/type of basic numeracy isn't so necessary.
Plus with generally higher levels of pay over the last quarter century, people haven't been so bothered with the pennies preferring to focus on the pounds. Dealing with change is seen as just an inconvenience ?
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 09:30:48 AM
I'm with you on the penny, but not the rest. I don't carry coins; and I don't have a wallet to accomodate them. Bills are much easier. I'm willing to pay in taxes the extra $2.00 or whatever my share is to keep the dollar bill.
The question is why do you carry cash? And why small bills? I have my cards, I have a few 20$ bills from the ATM, but that's all.
I'm not gonna carry 100$ on me in 1$ dollar coins. Never did that with bills in the past.
Quote
In some cases they even have advantages over metric.
Please, make a list?
Some people don't take credit cards. For example, a person who alters my clothes out of her house only takes cash. Valets and parking attendants often only take cash.
I think the biggest drawback to metric is that it in measurements it uses a base 10 system. A base 10 system is not divisible by 3s or 4s. When the english system uses a base 12 system, I think it has an advantage in that regard (for example, 12 inches make a foot).
If we really want to move toward the most efficient end state, I think we should covert to a base 12 number system, and convert everything to a metric system adjusted for that. (I think base 12 would be the best, as the first number that is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 5 is 60, which is too large, although it did work for the babylonians).
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 03:04:15 PM
I suspect part of people's reactions to coins and bill/notes, might rest on how they were taught, or not, to deal with coins/counting in school and by their parents.
I do dimly recall being taught maths involving coins an examples and we might actually have played out scenarios in school. I guess I grew up thinking it natural when you buy something, you can work out the expected change and more importantly know what combination of coins to make to give the shop exact change/payment.
Perhaps this isn't so common nowadays or that that level/type of basic numeracy isn't so necessary.
I don't know that such is necessarily true. After all, I was educated on creating exact change and had relative modeling the behavior. Nevertheless, I always thought it obnoxious when we'd wait around for them to find that nickel they needed in their purse. ;)
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 03:04:15 PM
Dealing with change is seen as just an inconvenience ?
I definitely would agree with that. :D
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
Factors.
12 has 1,2,3,4,6,12
10 has 1,2,5,10
The only thing that wasn't lame about things like 100yen coins was that after a few drinks, you could make 'beer sized' (the amount a beer costs at that particular shithole) stacks of them on the bar top and just slide them at the bartender. Everything else about a reasonably 'valuable' coin that I seemed to end up with a lot totally fucking sucked.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.
Yea I'm not seeing an obvious advantage there. In the vast majority of cases you're going to be using fractions anyway, which are much simpler in a decimal system. It sounds like someone looking for an excuse.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:34:44 PM
No, I'm replying to a guy who doesn't like using cash at all, except for " ... a $20 bill or two" as an emergency stash for places that are cash-only where his credit card is no good. I said nothing whatsoever about dollar coins having "no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins". That's something you invented. Even you should understand that labelling something I've not said as a "misapprehension" is a misapprehension on your part, not on mine.
I can't imagine many are going to be carrying a couple of individual dollar bills as an emergency stash. :lol:
I think you misunderstand the "guy" and so imagine poorly.
Quote from: Maximus on February 20, 2013, 03:23:33 PM
In the vast majority of cases you're going to be using fractions anyway, which are much simpler in a decimal system.
AMEN, sir. A. MEN.
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd.
Quibble noted. I (and, I would note, many others) generally use the term "loonie" to mean the Canadian dollar in the vernacular. I guess I knew it was technically wrong, and acknowledge again that it is, but doubt I will stop. I probably use the term once a year, sand so just won't remember the quibble (correct as it is) next time.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:51:16 PM
Same story as above but even more so given that there would be a large cost expenditure in order to switch both private and governmental.
The longer you wait, the more costs there are gonna be. It ain't ever gonna go down. And eventually, you'll have to switch.
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd.
Quibble noted. I (and, I would note, many others) generally use the term "loonie" to mean the Canadian dollar in the vernacular. I guess I knew it was technically wrong, and acknowledge again that it is, but doubt I will stop. I probably use the term once a year, sand so just won't remember the quibble (correct as it is) next time.
Why, that's just loony!
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:51:16 PM
Same story as above but even more so given that there would be a large cost expenditure in order to switch both private and governmental.
The longer you wait, the more costs there are gonna be. It ain't ever gonna go down. And eventually, you'll have to switch.
Why?
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:03:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:59:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 02:51:16 PM
The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?
There is this, for what it's worth - other countries have made the change to (a) having equivalent to dollar coins; and (b) getting rid of equivalent to pennies.
I've never heard anyone from these other countries ever remark 'you know, that was a mistake. We need to being back small denomination bills and coins'.
Maybe some do, but the overwhelming consensus of those who have actually used both systems on a daily basis for themselves is that eliminating small bills and coins is preferable. As well as, of course, being cheaper in the form of saving tax dollars.
Now, we all know Americans are special, and so cannot learn from other's experience as it has zero validity for them, but insofar as these things can be "demonstrated" ...
Alright hit me with it (as my initial objection was phrased as a question - I think) - what beyond the savings in tax dollars is better for the individual about turning small bills into coins?
I'm not going to argue the penny front as I already said change is useless so I don't care if that goes away. :D
They are useful for the sort of applications one tends to use single dollars for - tips, and vending machines of all sorts. Dollar bills (in the US, and when we had 'em) are often so worn that the machine just spits 'em out.
But more importantly, they mean the bills actually in your wallet are the valuable stuff while the change in your pocket or coin pouch is the small stuff you use for truly minor transactions.
Think of it in reverse - if you hate coins so much, why not get rid of 'em altogether and have 1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent and 25 cent bills? Because, I suspect, you would find them filling your wallet, making it thick like a telephone book, and making it hard to quickly find more valuable bills.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Please, make a list?
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.
Even there...
-"Move 1/2"
- Back 1/4
- 3/8
- ok we got it.
Now, with metric:
- Move 3mm to the left.
- Done.
:P
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 02:34:44 PM
No, I'm replying to a guy who doesn't like using cash at all, except for " ... a $20 bill or two" as an emergency stash for places that are cash-only where his credit card is no good. I said nothing whatsoever about dollar coins having "no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins". That's something you invented. Even you should understand that labelling something I've not said as a "misapprehension" is a misapprehension on your part, not on mine.
I can't imagine many are going to be carrying a couple of individual dollar bills as an emergency stash. :lol:
I think you misunderstand the "guy" and so imagine poorly.
Yeah, I'm much worse off going by what he actually posted rather than by your imagination as to what I've posted.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
They are useful for the sort of applications one tends to use single dollars for - tips, and vending machines of all sorts. Dollar bills (in the US, and when we had 'em) are often so worn that the machine just spits 'em out.
But more importantly, they mean the bills actually in your wallet are the valuable stuff while the change in your pocket or coin pouch is the small stuff you use for truly minor transactions.
Think of it in reverse - if you hate coins so much, why not get rid of 'em altogether and have 1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent and 25 cent bills? Because, I suspect, you would find them filling your wallet, making it thick like a telephone book, and making it hard to quickly find more valuable bills.
As far as I'm concerned, get rid of the penny, nickel, and maybe even dime altogether.
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Please, make a list?
The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.
Is that the right word, factors? Been a while. Or is it divisors?
This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.
Even there...
-"Move 1/2"
- Back 1/4
- 3/8
- ok we got it.
Now, with metric:
- Move 3mm to the left.
- Done.
:P
An argument I've seen advance for base 12, was that it was easier to use where no plan existed of what was being built and most parts of it were constructed as a proportion of other components of the structure.
For example some of the medieval cathedrals, though one does find it hard to believe that at least some of them didn't have a plan.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
They are useful for the sort of applications one tends to use single dollars for - tips, and vending machines of all sorts. Dollar bills (in the US, and when we had 'em) are often so worn that the machine just spits 'em out.
Say what now? Point taken on vending machines but tips? I don't see why a coin would be preferable there.
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
But more importantly, they mean the bills actually in your wallet are the valuable stuff while the change in your pocket or coin pouch is the small stuff you use for truly minor transactions.
Dollars are not valuable? :unsure:
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 03:34:41 PMThink of it in reverse - if you hate coins so much, why not get rid of 'em altogether and have 1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent and 25 cent bills? Because, I suspect, you would find them filling your wallet, making it thick like a telephone book, and making it hard to quickly find more valuable bills.
Actually in either form they'd be fairly useless. Unless you are saying the dollar (and the 2-dollar) are on the same useless scale, not sure why you'd dollar denominations turned into coins.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Which would be obnoxious.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Pockets?
Do you guys carry a lot of singles on you?
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Pockets?
Do you guys carry a lot of singles on you?
Coins can easily fall out of one's pockets - especially when one is taking items out like a wallet or phone.
Oh and as I said, I currently have 15 ones in my wallet all that I got while out at bars.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Pockets?
Do you guys carry a lot of singles on you?
Coins can easily fall out of one's pockets - especially when one is taking items out like a wallet or phone.
Oh and as I said, I currently have 15 ones in my wallet all that I got while out at bars.
I partially solve that about a quarter of a century ago, 35mm film cannister are ideal for containing up to fivers worth of change and being somewhat rounded have the advantage of helping to preserve suit or pants pockets. :bowler:
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
I think the fact is that some of us (Garbon and I) don't have coin pouches. This whole thing can probably be summarized as if there are dollar coins we will need to carry coin pouches.
Pockets?
Do you guys carry a lot of singles on you?
Coins can easily fall out of one's pockets - especially when one is taking items out like a wallet or phone.
Oh and as I said, I currently have 15 ones in my wallet all that I got while out at bars.
Coins don't really fall out of your pocket though. I think you might be doing it wrong.
At any rate, it's all pointless anyways. Cashless is the way of the future.
Only time stuff falls out of my pockets is when I'm taking my ease on the barcolounger.
There are probably 15 cigarette lighters in its inner recesses.
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 04:02:40 PM
At any rate, it's all pointless anyways. Cashless is the way of the future.
And coins are the way of the distant past, when their value was the same as the metal contained within.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 04:05:11 PM
Only time stuff falls out of my pockets is when I'm taking my ease on the barcolounger.
There are probably 15 cigarette lighters in its inner recesses.
Tip, you many want to cut back on the amount of smoking you do in that chair.
I can see the headlines now:
Man immolates self in butane death trap chair.
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:09:12 PM
Tip, you many want to cut back on the amount of smoking you do in that chair.
Tip, cigarette lighters don't teleport themselves out of pockets when you're not smoking.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:09:12 PM
Tip, you many want to cut back on the amount of smoking you do in that chair.
Tip, cigarette lighters don't teleport themselves out of pockets when you're not smoking.
Yeah, but you've already set the trap. :tickingtimebomb: :P
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2013, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:09:12 PM
Tip, you many want to cut back on the amount of smoking you do in that chair.
Tip, cigarette lighters don't teleport themselves out of pockets when you're not smoking.
Yeah, but you've already set the trap. :tickingtimebomb: :P
The secret of spontanious human combustion: revealed! :D
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 04:02:40 PM
Coins don't really fall out of your pocket though. I think you might be doing it wrong.
Perhaps I am as mine do.
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Say what now? Point taken on vending machines but tips? I don't see why a coin would be preferable there.
Coins stay on tables, rather than wafting to the floor in a passing breeze.
Admittedly they are no good for sticking to sweaty strippers, but I don't frequent such establishments. :lol:
Quote
Dollars are not valuable? :unsure:
Not really.
Quote
Actually in either form they'd be fairly useless. Unless you are saying the dollar (and the 2-dollar) are on the same useless scale, not sure why you'd dollar denominations turned into coins.
My point is that they are useful, but not particularly valuable. They are for small transactions where you don't want to have to pull out your billfold.
Now, a good argument can be made for going cashless, but as long as cash is useful, a good argument can be made that one dollar is now, literally, "pocket change" for the same reason that one cent is worthless - inflation has changed the relative values of money.
Heh the US used to have paper notes in denominations as low as 3 cents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_currency
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Say what now? Point taken on vending machines but tips? I don't see why a coin would be preferable there.
Coins stay on tables, rather than wafting to the floor in a passing breeze.
Admittedly they are no good for sticking to sweaty strippers, but I don't frequent such establishments. :lol:
Don't they have a coin slot ? :perv:
:blush:
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 04:02:40 PM
Coins don't really fall out of your pocket though. I think you might be doing it wrong.
So you just jingle jangle down street?
Quote
At any rate, it's all pointless anyways. Cashless is the way of the future.
Thank goodness.
Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man.
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Say what now? Point taken on vending machines but tips? I don't see why a coin would be preferable there.
Coins stay on tables, rather than wafting to the floor in a passing breeze.
Admittedly they are no good for sticking to sweaty strippers, but I don't frequent such establishments. :lol:
Don't they have a coin slot ? :perv:
:blush:
That is what I thought. But that bouncer sure did disagree.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 05:30:34 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2013, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 20, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Say what now? Point taken on vending machines but tips? I don't see why a coin would be preferable there.
Coins stay on tables, rather than wafting to the floor in a passing breeze.
Admittedly they are no good for sticking to sweaty strippers, but I don't frequent such establishments. :lol:
Don't they have a coin slot ? :perv:
:blush:
That is what I thought. But that bouncer sure did disagree.
It may be especially problematic for the sort of strippers garbon is likely to watch. :P
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 20, 2013, 04:02:40 PM
Coins don't really fall out of your pocket though. I think you might be doing it wrong.
So you just jingle jangle down street?
No. I don't carry money. We're further down the road to cashlessness than you guys are.
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 03:06:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on February 20, 2013, 09:30:48 AM
I'm with you on the penny, but not the rest. I don't carry coins; and I don't have a wallet to accomodate them. Bills are much easier. I'm willing to pay in taxes the extra $2.00 or whatever my share is to keep the dollar bill.
The question is why do you carry cash? And why small bills? I have my cards, I have a few 20$ bills from the ATM, but that's all.
I'm not gonna carry 100$ on me in 1$ dollar coins. Never did that with bills in the past.
Quote
In some cases they even have advantages over metric.
Please, make a list?
Some people don't take credit cards. For example, a person who alters my clothes out of her house only takes cash. Valets and parking attendants often only take cash.
Your wife charges you for fixing patching your clothing?
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2013, 06:45:39 PM
Your wife charges you for fixing patching your clothing?
:Embarrass: What really hurts is she is the woman I was trying to pay when the bouncer got me.
All this sounds like a foreign plot. UN out of the US.
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 02:58:02 AM
Makes sense.
Its strange but I can't recall ever hearing of the penny being an issue in the UK but I have seen it from time to time about America. Its almost as stupid for Britain as for the US. :hmm:
Its strange that you wouldn't know about the controversy over the tiddler (the half-penny, which was the equivalent of the US penny), you being British and all, but, then, again, the tiddler was before your time and what Brit knows any of Britain's actual history?
Ironically, the argument over the tiddler was the exact opposite of the argument over the US penny; the public disliked the tiddler and the government liked it.
Part of the reason why the public hated the tiddler was its size, though. Since British coins (within metal class) were proportional in weight to their value (a normally good idea) the tiddler had to be made half the weight of a penny and a quarter the weight of the tuppence. If the tuppence was to be kept a reasonable weight, the tiddler had to be too small and easy to lose. They were only in circulation for a dozen years or so.
:mellow:
Because I didn't mention the half penny I'm unaware that it ever existed?
Grumbler some times gets his centuries mixed up. He has confused the Norman half-penny and the decimal half-penny.
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 07:12:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2013, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 02:58:02 AM
Makes sense.
Its strange but I can't recall ever hearing of the penny being an issue in the UK but I have seen it from time to time about America. Its almost as stupid for Britain as for the US. :hmm:
Its strange that you wouldn't know about the controversy over the tiddler (the half-penny, which was the equivalent of the US penny), you being British and all, but, then, again, the tiddler was before your time and what Brit knows any of Britain's actual history?
Ironically, the argument over the tiddler was the exact opposite of the argument over the US penny; the public disliked the tiddler and the government liked it.
Part of the reason why the public hated the tiddler was its size, though. Since British coins (within metal class) were proportional in weight to their value (a normally good idea) the tiddler had to be made half the weight of a penny and a quarter the weight of the tuppence. If the tuppence was to be kept a reasonable weight, the tiddler had to be too small and easy to lose. They were only in circulation for a dozen years or so.
:mellow:
Because I didn't mention the half penny I'm unaware that it ever existed?
Grumbler is just being grumbler, chasing you from thread to thread to snipe at you..
What I find amusing is he mentions a nickname for the 1/2p that I've never heard in my life; it's almost like he looked up the wiki on the coin and got his information from there. :hmm:
Beat him in an argument and he'll pretend you don't exist.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fuser3303%2Fimageroot%2F2013%2F02%2F20130220_nickel_0.jpg&hash=41942d81d68a8f63766fba6124702b218ca669d3)
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I wonder how much we'd save if we just got rid of money altogether.
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 20, 2013, 08:00:38 PM
I wonder how much we'd save if we just got rid of money altogether.
Ide just came.
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 07:12:14 PM
:mellow:
Because I didn't mention the half penny I'm unaware that it ever existed?
Because I note that you seem to be unaware of " the
controversy over the tiddler" you think I am saying that you are "unaware that it [the half penny]
ever existed"[my bold]?
What language is your first language? Maybe you could translate what I say into that language, and then back into English, and thus improve your comprehension skills.
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 07:27:21 PM
Grumbler is just being grumbler, chasing you from thread to thread to snipe at you..
:lmfao: Paranoia much? What thread am I supposedly chasing mongers from (or to, if that is what you are trying to describe), as a matter of curiosity?
QuoteWhat I find amusing is he mentions a nickname for the 1/2p that I've never heard in my life; it's almost like he looked up the wiki on the coin and got his information from there. :hmm:
Really? You lived in the UK in the early 1980s and didn't hear the term "tiddler?" I lived in London at that time and never heard the coin referred to as anything else. I realize that I made you resort to Wikipedia to learn the history of your own country, but you don't need to thank me. :bowler:
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 07:12:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2013, 07:12:14 PM
:mellow:
Because I didn't mention the half penny I'm unaware that it ever existed?
Because I note that you seem to be unaware of " the controversy over the tiddler" you think I am saying that you are "unaware that it [the half penny] ever existed"[my bold]?
What language is your first language? Maybe you could translate what I say into that language, and then back into English, and thus improve your comprehension skills.
:lol:
Ah Grumbler and your arguments about nothing.
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 07:18:17 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 20, 2013, 07:27:21 PM
Grumbler is just being grumbler, chasing you from thread to thread to snipe at you..
:lmfao: Paranoia much? What thread am I supposedly chasing mongers from (or to, if that is what you are trying to describe), as a matter of curiosity?
QuoteWhat I find amusing is he mentions a nickname for the 1/2p that I've never heard in my life; it's almost like he looked up the wiki on the coin and got his information from there. :hmm:
Really? You lived in the UK in the early 1980s and didn't hear the term "tiddler?" I lived in London at that time and never heard the coin referred to as anything else. I realize that I made you resort to Wikipedia to learn the history of your own country, but you don't need to thank me. :bowler:
You invariably take a pot at Tyr and do so in an unpleasant manner, I feel sorry for you than you need to behave in that manner.
I've never once heard that term used for a 1/2p, which is why I googled to see it, seems it's mentioned on wiki and very few other places.
If you say your time in London was fully of Londoners effing and dlinding and every third word a 'tiddler' I'll believe you. :hmm:
Quote from: dps on February 21, 2013, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 21, 2013, 07:45:28 AM
You invariably take a pot and Tyr
??
He's speaking English English in order to reinforce grumbler's status as a cunt.
Quote from: Tyr on February 21, 2013, 07:18:52 AM
:lol:
Ah Grumbler and your arguments about nothing.
:lmfao: The Weasel of Tyr returns! I am sure we are all shocked.
Quote from: mongers on February 21, 2013, 07:45:28 AM
You invariably take a pot at Tyr and do so in an unpleasant manner, I feel sorry for you than you need to behave in that manner.
Ah, the Ad Hom of Concession. Concession accepted.
QuoteI've never once heard that term used for a 1/2p, which is why I googled to see it, seems it's mentioned on wiki and very few other places.
I am not sure what your ignorance evidences about anything but your ignorance. Like most people, I suggest, you are ignorant of far more than you are cognizant of, so you shouldn't feel compelled to comment on every instance in which you are reminded of something about which you are ignorant.
QuoteIf you say your time in London was fully of Londoners effing and dlinding and every third word a 'tiddler' I'll believe you. :hmm:
I ran the bolded gibberish through the Gibberish-English translator included in Chrome, and it still came out gibberish. :(
Please try again in English.
:lol:
Quote from: dps on February 21, 2013, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 21, 2013, 07:45:28 AM
You invariably take a pot and Tyr
??
That was the only truly comprehensible part of the post, since context would give us "a pot at Tyr and we can assume "pot" is a Britishism for "attack" or "shot."
Ah, excellent grumbler in full flow, please do carry on it's most amusing. :bowler:
Quote from: mongers on February 21, 2013, 11:14:07 AM
Ah, excellent grumbler in full flow, please do carry on it's most amusing. :bowler:
You need to engage and respond to keep it going. Catch-22. :(
Actually you don't. :)
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 10:34:33 AM
:lmfao: The Weasel of Tyr returns! I am sure we are all shocked.
:lol: I placed money that you'd make such a reply.
Shit. I owe myself 5000 yen....Yey 5000 yen!
Its not really a weasel if there's nothing one needs to weasel out of. :contract:
(come on 1000 word retort, come on 1000 word retort.....)
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 10:45:15 AM
That was the only truly comprehensible part of the post, since context would give us "a pot at Tyr and we can assume "pot" is a Britishism for "attack" or "shot."
A "pot shot" even.
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 10:42:16 AM
I am not sure what your ignorance evidences about anything but your ignorance. Like most people, I suggest, you are ignorant of far more than you are cognizant of, so you shouldn't feel compelled to comment on every instance in which you are reminded of something about which you are ignorant.
I suggest a poll of British posters on Languish is needed; whilst I have clear recollections of the coin and of spending it, I also have no recollection of ever hearing it referred to as a "tiddler".
It would be interesting to see if this supposedly universal nickname of a "tiddler" was actually a regional phenomenon.
Quote from: Agelastus on February 22, 2013, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 21, 2013, 10:42:16 AM
I am not sure what your ignorance evidences about anything but your ignorance. Like most people, I suggest, you are ignorant of far more than you are cognizant of, so you shouldn't feel compelled to comment on every instance in which you are reminded of something about which you are ignorant.
I suggest a poll of British posters on Languish is needed; whilst I have clear recollections of the coin and of spending it, I also have no recollection of ever hearing it referred to as a "tiddler".
It would be interesting to see if this supposedly universal nickname of a "tiddler" was actually a regional phenomenon.
:hmm:
I'm sure it was very commonplace when grumbler visited Britain in the 1870s.