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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Jacob on December 27, 2012, 01:50:31 PM

Title: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Jacob on December 27, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
Is this the beginning of the end? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20852157
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Ed Anger on December 27, 2012, 01:54:23 PM
Looks up from from redtube.....

Peer to peer? How ancient.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
It's like going after people who photocopy printed newspapers.  :huh:
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Syt on December 27, 2012, 01:59:39 PM
As long as nudevista isn't affected I don't care.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 02:07:05 PM
 :yuk:  Porn is disgusting.  Which other sites should I be careful to avoid? :unsure:
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 02:44:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 27, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
Is this the beginning of the end? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20852157

The article doesn't even mention the really distasteful part of such a strategy.

The company (Golden Eye in this case) generally has no interest in suing anyone, ever, for possessing the infringing porn.  Instead this is a naked extortion play - give us money or we'll allege in public that you accessed porn on the internet.

A lot of these kinds of attempts are slowly being thrown out of the US.

Now I'm all in favour of cracking down on pirates - porn or otherwise.  But you have to do it in a good faith manner to attempt to actually cut down on piracy.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Jacob on December 27, 2012, 02:50:47 PM
Yeah, it does strike me as an attempt at extortion which is pretty shady.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Neil on December 27, 2012, 02:53:24 PM
It's not like they're the first people to try and turn old-time morals into money.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 02:44:57 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 27, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
Is this the beginning of the end? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20852157

The article doesn't even mention the really distasteful part of such a strategy.

The company (Golden Eye in this case) generally has no interest in suing anyone, ever, for possessing the infringing porn.  Instead this is a naked extortion play - give us money or we'll allege in public that you accessed porn on the internet.

A lot of these kinds of attempts are slowly being thrown out of the US.

Now I'm all in favour of cracking down on pirates - porn or otherwise.  But you have to do it in a good faith manner to attempt to actually cut down on piracy.

Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?

You have to threatened to do violence for it to be extortion, legally speaking.  "Give me $500 or I'll tell your wife/employer what kind of stuff you whack off to" wouldn't qualify.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?

Well, if you build your career on hypocrisy, prepare for that to end up biting you in the ass.

As for your question, there is a fine line between blackmail and enforcing your rights while leveraging the other party's desire to avoid publicity.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?

Well, if you build your career on hypocrisy, prepare for that to end up biting you in the ass.

As for your question, there is a fine line between blackmail and enforcing your rights while leveraging the other party's desire to avoid publicity.

Seriously Marti.  Would you want the kind of porn you look at to suddenly laid bare for the world to see, all while attached to your real name?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: DontSayBanana on December 27, 2012, 03:25:19 PM
For once, a big :showoff: to NJ.

Quote from: N.J.S.A. 2C:15-52C:13-5. Criminal coercion
a. Offense defined. A person is guilty of criminal coercion if, with purpose unlawfully to restrict another's freedom of action to engage or refrain from engaging in conduct, he threatens to:

(1) Inflict bodily injury on anyone or commit any other offense;
(2) Accuse anyone of an offense;
(3) Expose any secret which would tend to subject any person to hatred, contempt or ridicule, or to impair his credit or business repute;

...
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: DontSayBanana on December 27, 2012, 03:26:54 PM
Long story short, I hope that Golden Eye realizes a lot of US states don't necessarily require the threat of violence for it to be criminal blackmail.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Razgovory on December 27, 2012, 03:31:57 PM
So, I guess these were the bad guys from that one James Bond Film.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:42:23 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
Well, if you build your career on hypocrisy, prepare for that to end up biting you in the ass.
I've never known anyone worth anything that wasn't a hypocrite.  That's what being an adult is all about. 
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 27, 2012, 03:25:19 PM
For once, a big :showoff: to NJ.

Quote from: N.J.S.A. 2C:15-52C:13-5. Criminal coercion
a. Offense defined. A person is guilty of criminal coercion if, with purpose unlawfully to restrict another's freedom of action to engage or refrain from engaging in conduct, he threatens to:

(1) Inflict bodily injury on anyone or commit any other offense;
(2) Accuse anyone of an offense;
(3) Expose any secret which would tend to subject any person to hatred, contempt or ridicule, or to impair his credit or business repute;

...

That's what I figured.  Guess it's time to blackmail me some Canuckleheads.  :ph34r:

I read a while back an interview with a trial attorney who said often the difference between blackmail and a settlement for damages with a nondisclosure agreement is a good lawyer.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Josephus on December 27, 2012, 03:52:03 PM
And now for something completely different.....the Monty Python version of this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZgwNutwK0Y
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2012, 03:43:04 PM
That's what I figured.  Guess it's time to blackmail me some Canuckleheads.  :ph34r:

I read a while back an interview with a trial attorney who said often the difference between blackmail and a settlement for damages with a nondisclosure agreement is a good lawyer.

Well... yes and no.

There are things you're prohibited from doing as a lawyer.  They don't reach the level of criminal extortion.

But as a general rule there is nothing preventing you from pursuing all legal means to collect on a debt.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?
You have to threatened to do violence for it to be extortion, legally speaking.  "Give me $500 or I'll tell your wife/employer what kind of stuff you whack off to" wouldn't qualify.
So is there something similar to criminal coercion?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 04:00:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?
You have to threatened to do violence for it to be extortion, legally speaking.  "Give me $500 or I'll tell your wife/employer what kind of stuff you whack off to" wouldn't qualify.
So is there something similar to criminal coercion?

Not really.  Again all kinds of unscupulous people can try and convince you to do all kinds of things, but as long as they're not committing fraud it's not an offence.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 27, 2012, 04:07:29 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:54:42 PM
Well... yes and no.

There are things you're prohibited from doing as a lawyer.  They don't reach the level of criminal extortion.

But as a general rule there is nothing preventing you from pursuing all legal means to collect on a debt.

You propose some airy fairy theory of wrongdoing.  The act is something that would be very embarassing to the defendant if publicized.  You settle and sign an NDA.

Legal extortion.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Ideologue on December 27, 2012, 05:30:31 PM
Listen, the word "bi" looks a lot like "bj," okay?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Josquius on December 28, 2012, 05:06:54 AM
I've headd worse about the porn companies. there's been stories about them purposefully mislabelling their vids and uploading them to torrent sites then pouncing on the downloaders.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Razgovory on December 28, 2012, 05:09:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 28, 2012, 05:06:54 AM
I've headd worse about the porn companies. there's been stories about them purposefully mislabelling their vids and uploading them to torrent sites then pouncing on the downloaders.

I've heard they hire prostitutes, have sex with them, film it, and then sell the film.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: The Brain on December 28, 2012, 05:13:29 AM
Why would you pirate porn? Why not just pay for it?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 28, 2012, 05:13:29 AM
Why would you pirate porn? Why not just pay for it?

Yeah, exactly. Not to mention, a lot is just available for free as amateur porn.

I subscribe to a couple of paid porn sites, because I like my porn to be very specific and have good production value, but with the stuff available for free on xtube and similar sites these days, I could very well make do just wanking to free stuff, if I had to.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: DontSayBanana on December 28, 2012, 01:07:06 PM
Why would you pay for porn?  You can find copies of most of the paid stuff on tube sites.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 28, 2012, 01:11:38 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 28, 2012, 01:07:06 PM
Why would you pay for porn?  You can find copies of most of the paid stuff on tube sites.

Better quality and easier to sort through paid sites than tubes.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: The Brain on December 28, 2012, 01:17:14 PM
Porn is very cheap.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Iormlund on December 28, 2012, 02:15:53 PM
I sense a fantastic business opportunity here:

1) Mislabel vids that then turn out to be about zoofilia, midgets, furry stuff and the like.
2) Blackmail those who are duped into downloading.
3)
4) Profit!
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Ideologue on December 28, 2012, 05:32:21 PM
I really ought to buy some porn.  I feel bad considering I've probably not paid for something that is, effectively, infinitely valuable.

Maybe I could just support some sort of government subsidization of porn.  That would soothe my conscience.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Josquius on December 29, 2012, 02:31:41 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 27, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Dear god, in this day and age the mere suggestion that someone may access porn on the internet would ruin careers, relationships and entire lives. :mellow:
If you're a politician or a church guy it could.  They won't get money from everyone they try and extort, but maybe they'll get enough to stay afloat.

Isn't blackmail a criminal act though?

You have to threatened to do violence for it to be extortion, legally speaking.  "Give me $500 or I'll tell your wife/employer what kind of stuff you whack off to" wouldn't qualify.

so what they could be doing is killing the market for the really kinky specialist stuff and scaring everyone into watching vanilla porn?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Josephus on December 30, 2012, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 28, 2012, 05:32:21 PM
I really ought to buy some porn.  I feel bad considering I've probably not paid for something that is, effectively, infinitely valuable.

Maybe I could just support some sort of government subsidization of porn.  That would soothe my conscience.

No need to feel guilty though (unless you're Catholic and you masturbate). The pron industry is still making billions, despite all the free stuff and torrents out there. The music industry and Hollywood would do well to learn something from this.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 30, 2012, 02:10:43 PM
That they should spend an afternoon in one location to shoot a film?
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2012, 02:35:59 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2012, 01:54:56 PM
No need to feel guilty though (unless you're Catholic and you masturbate). The pron industry is still making billions, despite all the free stuff and torrents out there. The music industry and Hollywood would do well to learn something from this.

The music industry and Hollywood have probably already gained the insight that it doesn't take many paying customers to cover a $60,000 fuck film's expenses.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 30, 2012, 02:42:31 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2012, 01:54:56 PM

No need to feel guilty though (unless you're Catholic and you masturbate).

Holy Mother Church understands.  At least in my case.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Razgovory on December 30, 2012, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 30, 2012, 02:42:31 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 30, 2012, 01:54:56 PM

No need to feel guilty though (unless you're Catholic and you masturbate).

Holy Mother Church understands.  At least in my case.

Yeah, she is forgiving.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Ideologue on December 30, 2012, 07:49:48 PM
P.S.: my self-deprecating joke was awesome, not that you dumb philistines would appreciate it. <_<
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Jaron on December 30, 2012, 07:51:22 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 30, 2012, 07:49:48 PM
P.S.: my self-deprecating joke was awesome, not that you dumb philistines would appreciate it. <_<

I liked it.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Razgovory on December 30, 2012, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 30, 2012, 07:49:48 PM
P.S.: my self-deprecating joke was awesome, not that you dumb philistines would appreciate it. <_<

I didn't know it was a joke, I thought it was one of your communism wanks.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2012, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 30, 2012, 07:58:15 PM
I didn't know it was a joke, I thought it was one of your communism wanks.

Really could have used some more Elvish poetry.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Neil on December 30, 2012, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 30, 2012, 07:49:48 PM
P.S.: my self-deprecating joke was awesome, not that you dumb philistines would appreciate it. <_<
If your joke is indistinguishable from something you would say normally, expect some confusion.
Title: Re: Going after the porn pirates...
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 30, 2012, 08:49:44 PM
Woops.  Wrong thread. :blush: