I've recently learned about a group of former presidents from around the world and other former leaders called The Elders. (Forgive me if I'm late to the party on this.) Basically, they've taken on the task of trying to create world peace through unified, independent diplomacy. Jimmy Carter is one of the drivers of this group.
Now, I appreciate the point of the group, and applaude them on their attempts. However, isn't there the risk that by working independently of any particular nation, they could end up screwing something else up?
The Elders (http://theelders.org/)
World peace through irrelevance? I suppose it could work.
Do they have Protocols?
From their website:
QuoteChaired by Archbishop Desmond Tutu, The Elders is an independent group of global leaders who work together for peace and human rights. They were brought together in 2007 by Nelson Mandela, who is not an active member of the group but remains an Honorary Elder. The Burmese pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi was also an Honorary Elder, until her election to the Burmese parliament in April 2012.
The Elders represent an independent voice, not bound by the interests of any nation, government or institution.
They are committed to promoting the shared interests of humanity, and the universal human rights we all share.
They believe that in any conflict, it is important to listen to everyone - no matter how unpalatable or unpopular this may be.
They aim to act boldly, speaking difficult truths and tackling taboos.
They don't claim to have all the answers, and stress that every individual can make a difference and create positive change in their society.
The Elders is an unusual organisation with a distinct way of working. The Elders work strategically, focusing on areas where they are uniquely placed to make a difference.
This can mean engaging in private advocacy, using their collective influence to open doors and gain access to decision-makers. At other times, The Elders work publicly to promote neglected issues and speak out against injustice. The group decides collectively where there is the greatest opportunity to make a real impact, whether this is:
•Opening doors to gain access to decision-makers at the highest levels
•Listening to everyone, no matter how unpalatable or unpopular, to promote dialogue
•Providing an independent voice that can speak out, challenge injustice and break taboos
•Bringing people together to catalyse action and forge alliances
•Amplifying and supporting the work of people affected by conflict or working for peace
•Creating space for campaigners and policy makers to broach difficult issues
•Connecting people with decision-makers, ensuring the needs of ordinary citizens are always represented
•Highlighting neglected issues to generate media coverage and political attention
The Elders are cautious not to claim all the credit for making a difference. Much of The Elders' work is dedicated to supporting the efforts of other campaigners and advocates, giving them a platform to make their voices heard. Read blogs by some of the activists The Elders have worked with.
The Elders are supported by a small team based in London, and by the Advisory Council
The Elders are in regular contact with each other, and meet twice a year to review their activities, discuss current priorities and plan their upcoming work.
Identifying situations where the Elders' involvement can make a positive impact, and where they - as Elders - are uniquely placed to act, often means making difficult decisions. The group isn't always able to intervene in particular conflicts or prevent cases of human rights abuse. These decisions are always made by consensus and new areas of work are only adopted with the agreement of the group.
Not competent enough to accomplish anything or screw anything up.
Jimmy Carter & Desmond Tutu :lol:
Quote from: The Brain on October 25, 2012, 01:50:17 PM
World peace through irrelevance? I suppose it could work.
Given that they've gone to North Korea, worked in China for Tibet, and are right now in Egypt, I would say that they are not irrelevant. They have had an impact in a number of places, but I question the safety to other national concerns that they could get in the way of.
Nothing the Space Wolves or Imperial Fists can't handle.
So all the idiots who got us to where we are today? Yeah. Great.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Given that they've gone to North Korea, worked in China for Tibet, and are right now in Egypt, I would say that they are not irrelevant. They have had an impact in a number of places, but I question the safety to other national concerns that they could get in the way of.
:lol: So they haven't accomplished jack shit in any place they've been and you're still saying they're not irrelevant?
I will correct myself. It seems that they have had zero impact anywhere. :lol:
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 25, 2012, 01:50:17 PM
World peace through irrelevance? I suppose it could work.
Given that they've gone to North Korea, worked in China for Tibet, and are right now in Egypt, I would say that they are not irrelevant. They have had an impact in a number of places, but I question the safety to other national concerns that they could get in the way of.
Yeah, those places turned awesome.
The point is that they can stir up a pot that really shouldn't be stirred by people outside of the various systems. All it takes is one psycho leader (of which there appear to be a few in place) to take them seriously for things to go kabloom.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
The world is full of groups that want to meddle in the affairs of state. One more doesnt make much difference.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 25, 2012, 02:15:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
The world is full of groups that want to meddle in the affairs of state. One more doesnt make much difference.
Huh. I guess I put too much emphasis on the group being primarily former national leaders. Maybe no one else does.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 01:56:59 PM
Nothing the Space Wolves or Imperial Fists can't handle.
You people suck. This was a great reference. :mad:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 01:56:59 PM
Nothing the Space Wolves or Imperial Fists can't handle.
You people suck. This was a great reference. :mad:
Tell your sister. I'm sure she'd praise your efforts, anyway. :)
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:19:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 25, 2012, 02:15:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
The world is full of groups that want to meddle in the affairs of state. One more doesnt make much difference.
Huh. I guess I put too much emphasis on the group being primarily former national leaders. Maybe no one else does.
There are all kinds of think tanks, lobby groups, etc etc etc populated for former heavy weights. Not sure what sets this one apart.
They're an NGO. No worse than the Clinton or Blair foundations.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 25, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
They're an NGO. No worse than the Clinton or Blair foundations.
Other than the fact that none of them measure up to Clinton or Blair ;)
It's just an excuse to write off boozing and whoring.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Tell your sister. I'm sure she'd praise your efforts, anyway. :)
I've backhanded bitches in public for less that that. Check yourself lest you wreck yourself, Moms.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Tell your sister. I'm sure she'd praise your efforts, anyway. :)
I've backhanded bitches in public for less that that. Check yourself lest you wreck yourself, Moms.
I think you might have subject and direct object swapped in your first sentence.
Quote from: garbon on October 25, 2012, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Tell your sister. I'm sure she'd praise your efforts, anyway. :)
I've backhanded bitches in public for less that that. Check yourself lest you wreck yourself, Moms.
I think you might have subject and direct object swapped in your first sentence.
:lol:
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
I will correct myself. It seems that they have had zero impact anywhere. :lol:
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
Not really though, because there is no risk of anyone taking any of these people seriously. What resources do these people control? How many divisions could they muster? Do they possess atomic weaponry?
These folks are just a bunch of folks who were a little too optimistic about the victory of civilization during the Cold War.
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
I will correct myself. It seems that they have had zero impact anywhere. :lol:
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
Not really though, because there is no risk of anyone taking any of these people seriously. What resources do these people control? How many divisions could they muster? Do they possess atomic weaponry?
These folks are just a bunch of folks who were a little too optimistic about the victory of civilization during the Cold War.
Good points. Those without nukes don't count. Sad, really, but true.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 25, 2012, 03:26:37 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
I will correct myself. It seems that they have had zero impact anywhere. :lol:
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
Not really though, because there is no risk of anyone taking any of these people seriously. What resources do these people control? How many divisions could they muster? Do they possess atomic weaponry?
These folks are just a bunch of folks who were a little too optimistic about the victory of civilization during the Cold War.
Good points. Those without nukes don't count. Sad, really, but true.
Nuke capable people count too.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 01:56:59 PM
Nothing the Space Wolves or Imperial Fists can't handle.
You people suck. This was a great reference. :mad:
The Ordo Xenos can do it better.
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
There is still the worry that this kind of group could cause problems if at any point anyone took them seriously.
Jimmy Carter arguably already has--not as a member of this group, but through his own efforts. I remember years ago, during the early part of the Clinton administration, that Sam Donaldson (certainly not someone considered to be a staunch conservative) was highly critical of the Clinton administration for allowing former President Carter so much influence on our policy on Haiti. Donaldson's criticism essentially was that Carter's agenda is "peace at any price" and that while peace is certainly an admirable goal, it shouldn't be acheived by sacrificing everything else we believe in.
Quote from: garbon on October 25, 2012, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 02:22:12 PM
Tell your sister. I'm sure she'd praise your efforts, anyway. :)
I've backhanded bitches in public for less that that. Check yourself lest you wreck yourself, Moms.
I think you might have subject and direct object swapped in your first sentence.
How about you and the soccer mom go cruise for new shoes instead of perpetrating a fraud, Mary?
Elders? Is Grumbler one of them?
Quote from: miozozny on October 25, 2012, 07:58:17 PM
Elders? Is Grumbler one of them?
He was when he was Alexander of Macedon's naval adviser. He's long since retired from the world.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 25, 2012, 07:59:47 PM
Quote from: miozozny on October 25, 2012, 07:58:17 PM
Elders? Is Grumbler one of them?
He was when he was Alexander of Macedon's naval adviser. He's long since retired from the world.
He was know as Cleitus in those days. To distinguish him from Ceitus the black and Cleitus the white he was known as Cleitus the beige.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 02:20:45 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 01:56:59 PM
Nothing the Space Wolves or Imperial Fists can't handle.
You people suck. This was a great reference. :mad:
I appreciated it. :sleep:
Quote from: dps on October 25, 2012, 05:55:17 PM
Jimmy Carter arguably already has--not as a member of this group, but through his own efforts. I remember years ago, during the early part of the Clinton administration, that Sam Donaldson (certainly not someone considered to be a staunch conservative) was highly critical of the Clinton administration for allowing former President Carter so much influence on our policy on Haiti. Donaldson's criticism essentially was that Carter's agenda is "peace at any price" and that while peace is certainly an admirable goal, it shouldn't be acheived by sacrificing everything else we believe in.
I remembered something about this, which is where my initial reaction came from.
Meh...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elders_(organization)#Members (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elders_(organization)#Members)
Desmond Tutu (Chair), Archbishop of Cape Town
Martti Ahtisaari, former President of Finland
Kofi Annan, former Secretary-General of the United Nations
Ela Bhatt, founder of the Self-Employed Women's Association of India
Lakhdar Brahimi, former Foreign Minister of Algeria
Gro Harlem Brundtland, former Prime Minister of Norway
Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former President of Brazil
Jimmy Carter, former President of the United States
Graça Machel, wife of Nelson Mandela
Mary Robinson, former President of Ireland
Quote from: merithyn on October 25, 2012, 10:04:05 PM
Quote from: dps on October 25, 2012, 05:55:17 PM
Jimmy Carter arguably already has--not as a member of this group, but through his own efforts. I remember years ago, during the early part of the Clinton administration, that Sam Donaldson (certainly not someone considered to be a staunch conservative) was highly critical of the Clinton administration for allowing former President Carter so much influence on our policy on Haiti. Donaldson's criticism essentially was that Carter's agenda is "peace at any price" and that while peace is certainly an admirable goal, it shouldn't be acheived by sacrificing everything else we believe in.
I remembered something about this, which is where my initial reaction came from.
Keep in mind that there was a specific content to this at the time. Bill Clinton came into office with essentially no foreign policy experience, nor did he articulate any particular foreign policy goals during the 1992 campaign. None of his close advisors had any real foreign policy experience, either. Donaldson's criticism wasn't so much of former President Carter, but rather that President Clinton, not having any foreign policy agenda of his own, was inappropriately allowing Carter to, in effect, run our foreign policy. It should be noted that until his death, former President Nixon apparantly had more input into Clinton's foreign policy than did Carter--a lot more. The difference was that Nixon's influence was exercised through advice that he gave to President Clinton in private; while Carter was publicly making statements about what our policies should be, and Clinton appeared to often go along with Carter's ideas after they were aired publicly, giving at least the perception that Jimmy Carter, not Bill Clinton, was in charge of US foreign policy. This perception faded as the Clinton administration gained experience.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 25, 2012, 07:46:06 PM
How about you and the soccer mom go cruise for new shoes instead of perpetrating a fraud, Mary?
Meri, Max and I had a nice lunch when I was living in Chicago, so what of it?
Quote from: Syt on October 25, 2012, 01:51:04 PM
Do they have Protocols?
No, but I'm in the early phases of my plan to steal their gems.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 25, 2012, 10:32:53 PM
Meh...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elders_(organization)#Members (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elders_(organization)#Members)
Desmond Tutu (Chair), Archbishop of Cape Town
Martti Ahtisaari, former President of Finland
Kofi Annan, former Secretary-General of the United Nations
Ela Bhatt, founder of the Self-Employed Women's Association of India
Lakhdar Brahimi, former Foreign Minister of Algeria
Gro Harlem Brundtland, former Prime Minister of Norway
Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former President of Brazil
Jimmy Carter, former President of the United States
Graça Machel, wife of Nelson Mandela
Mary Robinson, former President of Ireland
Needs more Shub-Niggurath.
Do they have any Scrolls?
Sounds like they're trolling conspiracy nuts