Quote
PARIS—French President Francois Hollande potentially won the hearts of thousands of future voters on Tuesday by announcing he wants to abolish homework.
Unveiling a new education program, Hollande said school work should "be done at school, rather than at home", to foster educational equality because some students do not have support at home.
He also however advocated a return to the four-and-a-half-day school week from the current four-day week in place in most French schools.
Following his election in May, Socialist Hollande has vowed to make education a key focus of his five-year term and outlined his proposals in the speech on Tuesday.
He also proposed reducing the number of students forced to repeat grades, increasing teacher levels, schooling children at younger ages in disadvantaged areas and boosting measures to fight absenteeism.
:yeah:
Shamelessly stolen from pdot. Homework is not a learning aid. It's an obstacle. Good for France.
And it will stop Parents from doing kids work for them. Once again France leads the way in enlightenment :frog:
Meh, the efficacy of homework has been questioned for a while now and many schools have made an effort to make sure whatever homework is assigned is meaningful and not merely busy work.
The thing that strikes me as odd is that it is a national leader who decides such things rather than local political bodies or school teachers themselves.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 11:46:25 AM
The thing that strikes me as odd is that it is a national leader who decides such things rather than local political bodies or school teachers themselves.
Everything is centralized over there.
:yeah:
Testify Comrade Holland, testify!
:wub:
Too bad it's France. :( The US will never do it now. :weep:
Quote from: merithyn on October 10, 2012, 01:09:59 PM
Too bad it's France. :( The US will never do it now. :weep:
As CC noted we could not do this even if we wanted to. It would have to be done on the local level.
Fuck that. Give them more homework.
I made my kid do homework starting when he was 3.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 11:46:25 AM
The thing that strikes me as odd is that it is a national leader who decides such things rather than local political bodies or school teachers themselves.
Everything is centralized over there.
And thank God for that. What's the point of having a state if you leave education to local communities (or, worst of all, parents)?
France > RotW
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 10, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
Shamelessly stolen from pdot. Homework is not a learning aid. It's an obstacle. Good for France.
No shit. Homework. Pfft. That's bullshit. Not my problem schools can't get their shit straight wasting 8 hours of my time during the day, don't have to shit on me during my time.
Nigga's got my vote.
Quote from: Martinus on October 10, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
And thank God for that. What's the point of having a state if you leave education to local communities (or, worst of all, parents)?
France > RotW
National defense? Foreign policy? Transportation infrastructure? :hmm:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2012, 03:21:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 10, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
And thank God for that. What's the point of having a state if you leave education to local communities (or, worst of all, parents)?
France > RotW
National defense? Foreign policy? Transportation infrastructure? :hmm:
What is that compared to the important issue of whether little Marti gets 30 or 40 minutes of homework a day?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 03:37:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 10, 2012, 03:21:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 10, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
And thank God for that. What's the point of having a state if you leave education to local communities (or, worst of all, parents)?
France > RotW
National defense? Foreign policy? Transportation infrastructure? :hmm:
What is that compared to the important issue of whether little Marti gets 30 or 40 minutes of homework a day?
I think our ability to shape hearts and minds of future generations (rather than these being shaped by people who simply happen to be their biological parents) is an important part of social engineering.
Edit: for the record, I was supporting the idea of this being decided centrally, not the decision itself.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 10, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
Shamelessly stolen from pdot. Homework is not a learning aid. It's an obstacle. Good for France.
No shit. Homework. Pfft. That's bullshit. Not my problem schools can't get their shit straight wasting 8 hours of my time during the day, don't have to shit on me during my time.
Nigga's got my vote.
You all realize that you aren't going to go back and re-do schooling without homework, right? :unsure:
Quote from: Martinus on October 10, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
I think our ability to shape hearts and minds of future generations (rather than these being shaped by people who simply happen to be their biological parents) is an important part of social engineering.
This is why it is easy to ignore most of what you say.
Quote from: garbon on October 10, 2012, 03:39:52 PM
You all realize that you aren't going to go back and re-do schooling without homework, right? :unsure:
Shit, in this economy, I don't know what I'll have to do.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 10, 2012, 03:39:52 PM
You all realize that you aren't going to go back and re-do schooling without homework, right? :unsure:
Shit, in this economy, I don't know what I'll have to do.
Pretty sure you won't attend high school again...unless you get paid to write an expose like in Never Been Kissed.
Quote from: garbon on October 10, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Pretty sure you won't attend high school again...unless you get paid to write an expose like in Never Been Kissed.
Never Been Kissed. :wub: :wub:
Pffft and you accuse me of being a teenage girl.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 04:46:40 PM
Pffft and you accuse me of being a teenage girl.
At least I can watch it alone.
:lol:
Homework is supposed to be done in the five minutes before class starts. Damn dumbass kids these days.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 04:46:40 PM
Pffft and you accuse me of being a teenage girl.
At least I can watch it alone.
:face:
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 11:46:25 AM
The thing that strikes me as odd is that it is a national leader who decides such things rather than local political bodies or school teachers themselves.
Wasn't it Jules Ferry who used to boast that after his reforms he knew what every child in France was studying at any point in the day?
He will fail, muslims will remain savages. A couple centuries of his policy might suffice, who knows.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 04:46:40 PM
Pffft and you accuse me of being a teenage girl.
At least I can watch it alone.
You know during that baseball field scene you want a hug.
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2012, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 10, 2012, 11:46:25 AM
The thing that strikes me as odd is that it is a national leader who decides such things rather than local political bodies or school teachers themselves.
Everything is centralized over there.
Yeah, just the other day I was thinking that France was really a lot like a giant city state.
Social engineering lol. For someone whose happiness and indeed very existence depends on the acceptance of individualism, Marty sure likes the hivemind
Giving busywork as homework is retarded, and shouldn't be done. However, giving no homework at all (especially for such reasons) is about 100x as retarded.
Barrymore's career peaked in E.T. :thumbsdown:
Quote
He also however advocated a return to the four-and-a-half-day school week from the current four-day week in place in most French schools.
:o
4 days!?!? Those lucky fiends.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on October 11, 2012, 01:23:44 AM
Giving busywork as homework is retarded, and shouldn't be done. However, giving no homework at all (especially for such reasons) is about 100x as retarded.
I am confused. You think giving no busywork homework is 100x worse then giving busywork homework even though giving busywork homework is retarded and should not be done?
I mentioned this to my 17-year-old son who's in the 11th grade. He thought it was a really bad idea of the French to do this, since he feels that homework is really beneficial to most kids. When I asked him why he didn't bother to do his then to up his grades, he said, "Because I'm lazy. That's not a good reason to have a policy against something." :lol:
Uhm, I thought that the work itself is not abolished, only that it's to be done at school (to ensure all students get equal support) instead of at home?
Actually, this kinda makes sense. One of the biggest problems in education in Austria for example, is that your academic success of the parents pretty much determines the academic success of the children. If daddy went to university, then it's more likely that sonny goes to university. If Mom and Dad are uneducated, then most likely you won't go to a higher school either.
One part of the problem is of course that if parents are unable to help their kids with their homework, then the kids' education suffers; and by far not all parents are willing (or able) to pay for private lessons to make up for it (a very popular feature in Austria).
This is across the board, Syt, not just an Austrian thing. But, as a first-generation college girl, I can say that my going to college had little to do with whether or not my parents when to college and everything to do with the emphasis that my parents put on an education. They never helped me with my school work (mostly because I never needed their help, but also because the work I did was beyond their education level), but always made sure I knew that doing it was essential. So, having support at home wasn't about the homework, but rather was about instilling a work ethic and a sense of importance to learning. Taking away homework isn't going to make any difference to those kids if their parents still don't understand this aspect.
My son's point was that by doing the work at home, it reinforces the lessons at school so that there isn't a gap of 18 hours (or more on the weekends) between when you learn it and when you work on it again. He pointed out that fairly intelligent people ("like your friends on Languish") may not need that reinforcement, but average kids and below probably do.
Socialists don't want school to teach children anything. People who know nothing make the best and most loyal Socialist voters.
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:01:32 PM
My son's point was that by doing the work at home, it reinforces the lessons at school so that there isn't a gap of 18 hours (or more on the weekends) between when you learn it and when you work on it again. He pointed out that fairly intelligent people ("like your friends on Languish") may not need that reinforcement, but average kids and below probably do.
I think it has more to do with the fact that some kids dont learn the lesson of the day in class and so it has very little to do with forgetting anything in the short time they are away from school and more to do with the fact they didnt know the thing in the first place.
Perhaps for those kids homework might be beneficial to help them learn what they should have picked up in class. But it would be preferrable if they simply learned it in class in the first place.
That is what the bright kids do. Then if there is anything that they have a question about they can do further reading or ask the teacher after class.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:01:32 PM
My son's point was that by doing the work at home, it reinforces the lessons at school so that there isn't a gap of 18 hours (or more on the weekends) between when you learn it and when you work on it again. He pointed out that fairly intelligent people ("like your friends on Languish") may not need that reinforcement, but average kids and below probably do.
I think it has more to do with the fact that some kids dont learn the lesson of the day in class and so it has very little to do with forgetting anything in the short time they are away from school and more to do with the fact they didnt know the thing in the first place.
Perhaps for those kids homework might be beneficial to help them learn what they should have picked up in class. But it would be preferrable if they simply learned it in class in the first place.
That is what the bright kids do. Then if there is anything that they have a question about they can do further reading or ask the teacher after class.
I never could understand what was being taught in class. I got really fustrated in math classes in college when I couldn't follow the lectures at all, or answer the basic questions posed in class, but on tests frequently got the highest scores. My father then told me that when I was a small kid they noticed I never understood verbal instructions, and I was taken to a doctor and was diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder. Back then, there wasn't treatment so that was the end of it--now I would probably get extra attention as having a learning disability.
But I would have probably been screwed without a lot of homework. That was the primary way I learned.
Quote from: alfred russel on October 11, 2012, 02:51:13 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 01:01:32 PM
My son's point was that by doing the work at home, it reinforces the lessons at school so that there isn't a gap of 18 hours (or more on the weekends) between when you learn it and when you work on it again. He pointed out that fairly intelligent people ("like your friends on Languish") may not need that reinforcement, but average kids and below probably do.
I think it has more to do with the fact that some kids dont learn the lesson of the day in class and so it has very little to do with forgetting anything in the short time they are away from school and more to do with the fact they didnt know the thing in the first place.
Perhaps for those kids homework might be beneficial to help them learn what they should have picked up in class. But it would be preferrable if they simply learned it in class in the first place.
That is what the bright kids do. Then if there is anything that they have a question about they can do further reading or ask the teacher after class.
I never could understand what was being taught in class. I got really fustrated in math classes in college when I couldn't follow the lectures at all, or answer the basic questions posed in class, but on tests frequently got the highest scores. My father then told me that when I was a small kid they noticed I never understood verbal instructions, and I was taken to a doctor and was diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder. Back then, there wasn't treatment so that was the end of it--now I would probably get extra attention as having a learning disability.
But I would have probably been screwed without a lot of homework. That was the primary way I learned.
Ok so homework should given to kids on the off chance they have an undiagnosed learning disability?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:33:26 PM
I think it has more to do with the fact that some kids dont learn the lesson of the day in class and so it has very little to do with forgetting anything in the short time they are away from school and more to do with the fact they didnt know the thing in the first place.
Perhaps for those kids homework might be beneficial to help them learn what they should have picked up in class. But it would be preferrable if they simply learned it in class in the first place.
That is what the bright kids do. Then if there is anything that they have a question about they can do further reading or ask the teacher after class.
I'm not sure that's correct as a lot of class (at least thinking back to high school) focused on the teacher telling us things / telling us how to do things - rather than actually focusing on making sure we could said things on our own, or explain them ourselves. I'd say I probably learned more on my own - grappling with things than I did simply being talked at. Did I have an undiagnosed learning disability that took me to Stanford?
I really think that if you are going to largely do away with homework, you need to make sure then that classroom time is spent effectively both by teachers and the students. I'm not sure that can be said about a lot of public schooling.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:59:20 PM
Ok so homework should given to kids on the off chance they have an undiagnosed learning disability?
Apparently I was diagnosed, but I wasn't making some larger point. Although I do think some children learn better independently while others learn better in a classroom setting.
Quote from: alfred russel on October 11, 2012, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:59:20 PM
Ok so homework should given to kids on the off chance they have an undiagnosed learning disability?
Apparently I was diagnosed, but I wasn't making some larger point. Although I do think some children learn better independently while others learn better in a classroom setting.
That doesn't require assigning all that work to all the students.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 11, 2012, 03:44:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 11, 2012, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 11, 2012, 02:59:20 PM
Ok so homework should given to kids on the off chance they have an undiagnosed learning disability?
Apparently I was diagnosed, but I wasn't making some larger point. Although I do think some children learn better independently while others learn better in a classroom setting.
That doesn't require assigning all that work to all the students.
No it doesn't. But learning shouldn't be a passive process. Homework demands a bit of discipline and self reliance too.
It isn't as though our children are being worked in coal mines. They have time to do some work outside of school.