QuoteRomney: 'Middle-income' is $200K to $250K and less
BOSTON — Mitt Romney is promising to reduce taxes on middle-income Americans.
But how does he define "middle-income"? The Republican presidential nominee defined it Friday as income of $200,000 to $250,000 a year and less.
The definition of "middle income" or the "middle class" is politically charged as Romney and President Barack Obama fight to win over working-class voters. Romney would be among the wealthiest presidents, if elected, and Democrats have repeatedly painted him as out of touch with average people.
Obama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
Romney's comments came an interview broadcast Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America."
"No one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is (to) keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers," Romney told host George Stephanopoulos.
"Is $100,000 middle income?" Stephanopoulos asked.
"No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less," Romney responded.
His campaign later clarified that Romney was referencing household income, not individual income.
The Census Bureau reported this week that the median household income — the midpoint for the nation — is just over $50,000.
Obama wants to extend Bush-era tax cuts for those making less than $250,000, while Romney wants to extend the tax cuts for everyone.
Romney has not explained how he would keep his plan from growing the nation's deficit.
QuoteRomney has not explained how he would keep his plan from growing the nation's deficit.
He will cut the fat!!!111
And waste, fraud, and abuse.
So yahoo has a similar article but:
QuoteIn an interview that aired Friday morning, Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney told "Good Morning America" that the definition of middle income in America is "$200,000 to $250,000 or less."
Romney's answer is a bit confusing, because 200,000 is included in the universe of numbers less than 250,000. If you take the statement at face value, however, it appears that Romney is using the same upper limit as President Barack Obama when it comes to middle-income earners. Obama's proposed tax hike for the richest Americans begins with taxable income over $250,000.
Because of Romney's wording, some interpreted the statement as saying the middle-income range begins at $200,000, touching off the usual hand-wringing over Romney being out of touch with the non-wealthy.
Early versions of an Associated Press article stated: "The Republican presidential nominee defined ['middle income'] as income of $200,000 to $250,000 a year," an assertion some newspapers put in the headline. A later version of the same article, however, include the "or less" wording. It is common for AP stories to be updated several times.
The median household income in the United States in 2011 was $50,054, down from inflation-adjusted figures of $54,489 in 2007 and nearly $55,000 in 1999.
The later version of the AP story also stated that the "campaign later clarified that Romney was referencing household income, not individual income," which appears to be irrelevant as the median figure is still about 25 percent of $200,000. And for most Americans, exactly where the upper limit is drawn is irrelevant so long as they're below it.
I'm not concerned as much as how he defines middle income, since it's an alien concept to him and other multimillionaires anyway.
But as he said "$200,000 to $250,000 or less", does that mean there's no lower class, then? Or if there is, is he bunching it together with middle class?
Is he defining class in two categories: the rich and the rest of us?
The yahoo comments were also fun:
QuotePeople earning $100,000 a year are in the top 10% of all earners. There is no way you can call this middle class.
QuoteIf most households have to live at $54,000 per year then that is what our politicians need to live with for an income - that is all elected officials both dems and repubs. We the people need to pass a referendum ( a law past by popular citizen vote) because the politicians will not.
QuoteObama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
If that's middle class, what's lower class, Obama?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
I'm not concerned as much as how he defines middle income, since it's an alien concept to him and other multimillionaires anyway.
But as he said "$200,000 to $250,000 or less", does that mean there's no lower class, then? Or if there is, is he bunching it together with middle class?
Is he defining class in two categories: the rich and the rest of us?
Really? :blink:
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
QuoteObama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
If that's middle class, what's lower class, Obama?
I'd think that 250k isn't upper class. :huh:
Frankly if I was a partisan I would want the other party to win. The whole system is headed for a train wreck and it is safer to be able to sit there blaming the other guy the whole time.
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2012, 03:06:03 PM
Frankly if I was a partisan I would want the other party to win. The whole system is headed for a train wreck and it is safer to be able to sit there blaming the other guy the whole time.
I kinda feel like that's what we were saying in '08.
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
I'm not concerned as much as how he defines middle income, since it's an alien concept to him and other multimillionaires anyway.
But as he said "$200,000 to $250,000 or less", does that mean there's no lower class, then? Or if there is, is he bunching it together with middle class?
Is he defining class in two categories: the rich and the rest of us?
Really? :blink:
Don't answer a question with another fucking question. That's Yi's gig.
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:04:06 PM
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
QuoteObama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
If that's middle class, what's lower class, Obama?
I'd think that 250k isn't upper class. :huh:
Of course not. You've lived in San Fransisco and NYC. That's barely enough to get by.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2012, 03:08:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
I'm not concerned as much as how he defines middle income, since it's an alien concept to him and other multimillionaires anyway.
But as he said "$200,000 to $250,000 or less", does that mean there's no lower class, then? Or if there is, is he bunching it together with middle class?
Is he defining class in two categories: the rich and the rest of us?
Really? :blink:
Don't answer a question with another fucking question. That's Yi's gig.
That was a really of - are you that desperate for something to bash Romney with that such is the issue of contention?
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:09:21 PM
That was a really of - are you that desperate for something to bash Romney with that such is the issue of contention?
I'd like to know how the man thinks regarding the definition of economic classes. I think I already know, but I'd like to see him expound on the concept.
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2012, 03:06:03 PM
Frankly if I was a partisan I would want the other party to win. The whole system is headed for a train wreck and it is safer to be able to sit there blaming the other guy the whole time.
I kinda feel like that's what we were saying in '08.
It's a Very long train, takes a while for whole thing to go over the edge.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 14, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Of course not. You've lived in San Fransisco and NYC. That's barely enough to get by.
Most of my life I lived in further out suburbs of LA and Boston. Even though $250k would have been a pretty penny in those places, I'm not convinced that's what makes one upper class.
Quote from: mongers on September 14, 2012, 03:11:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2012, 03:06:03 PM
Frankly if I was a partisan I would want the other party to win. The whole system is headed for a train wreck and it is safer to be able to sit there blaming the other guy the whole time.
I kinda feel like that's what we were saying in '08.
It's a Very long train, takes a while for whole thing to go over the edge.
Indeed - the duration of time it takes between an obviously predictable train wreck and the actual wreck itself is referred to as a "Chavez"
250k isn't rich. So if it's not middle class, what is it?
250k used to be rich, but the super rich have gotten so much richer than the rich that there's a big income range between middle class and what is now typically called rich.
Quote from: frunk on September 14, 2012, 04:12:34 PM
250k used to be rich, but the super rich have gotten so much richer than the rich that there's a big income range between middle class and what is now typically called rich.
I guess $25k was rich at some point as well.
poors. :rolleyes:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 14, 2012, 03:50:33 PM
250k isn't rich. So if it's not middle class, what is it?
I know exactly one family that makes more than that: my brother's (makes $325k). The next closest household that I know would be less than $200k. The next would be under $100k. To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
But then, I'm the poors and Romney couldn't care less what I think.
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
Yikes.
Quote from: Kleves on September 14, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
QuoteObama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year.
If that's middle class, what's lower class, Obama?
:lol:
Quote from: derspiess on September 14, 2012, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
Yikes.
You don't look at the real state of your own country much, do you ?
edit:
Merry's real-life experience seems to be rather close to guess what, real life:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/macro/032008/faminc/new07_000.htm (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/macro/032008/faminc/new07_000.htm)
Quote from: derspiess on September 14, 2012, 04:32:19 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
Yikes.
Household income of $150k puts you in the top 94 percentile, which means it's correct that that is the wealthier end of things.
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 14, 2012, 03:50:33 PM
250k isn't rich. So if it's not middle class, what is it?
I know exactly one family that makes more than that: my brother's (makes $325k). The next closest household that I know would be less than $200k. The next would be under $100k. To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
But then, I'm the poors and Romney couldn't care less what I think.
How does your brother earn so much money? :o
Yeah Derspicy needs to stop hanging around all those pro football players and Garbon needs to just stop.
:P
Yeah the reality is this, from those US census survey for 2007 (so not so out of date given the recession) US family incomes are:
over $250k - 2.5 %
150k-250k - 7.9 %
100k-150k - 15.3%
and from the bottom up:
below $17.5 - 10.1 %
17.5k-27.5k - 9.6 %
27.5k-37.5k - 9.5 %
37.5k-47.5k - 9.2 %
and fairly evenly distributed up to 100k
So America has a lot of rich families, but proportionately an awful lot more poor people.
Quote from: mongers on September 14, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
Yeah the reality is this, from those US census survey for 2007 (so not so out of date given the recession) US family incomes are:
over $250k - 2.5 %
150k-250k - 7.9 %
100k-150k - 15.3%
and from the bottom up:
below $17.5 - 10.1 %
17.5k-27.5k - 9.6 %
27.5k-37.5k - 9.5 %
37.5k-47.5k - 9.2 %
and fairly evenly distributed up to 100k
So America has a lot of rich families, but proportionately an awful lot more poor people.
Facts have no place here.
Scips rus side is coming out.
Rich = You don't have to work.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 14, 2012, 06:01:38 PM
Rich = You don't have to work.
+ you don't worry about the money you spend.
Getting disability payments, for example, does not make you rich.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 14, 2012, 06:01:38 PM
Rich = You don't have to work.
I dont know about that. I grew up poor and now, at the risk of sounding like Marti, I make a lot of money relative to the average Canadian. I consider myself rich in the sense that I am in the top 1% of income earners. I still need to work but I never really worry much about money or spending it and I think that also makes me rich. I know middle class families who do worry about whether they should buy this or that and I lived in a poor family who just dreamed about one day spending money on this or that.
That is a long way of saying, I think being rich is not having to worry about money. Not having to work is the idle rich.
I have to side with the taller than avg Canuck on this.
Quote from: katmai on September 14, 2012, 05:30:07 PM
Garbon needs to just stop.
:P
Stop what? Pretty sure we had a discussion here before that $250k doesn't make a family upperclass.
It sure as shit ain't middle class.
I'm upper middle class! :)
Quote from: katmai on September 14, 2012, 06:33:49 PM
It sure as shit ain't middle class.
Pretty sure it is what Ed just said - upper middle class.
Upper upper middle class maybe.
Ed is nuveau riche putting on airs.
Quote from: katmai on September 14, 2012, 06:41:53 PM
Upper upper middle class maybe.
Ed is nuveau riche putting on airs.
I'm reading this while holding a snifter of fine aged Norman Calvados.
Quote from: garbon on September 14, 2012, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 14, 2012, 06:33:49 PM
It sure as shit ain't middle class.
Pretty sure it is what Ed just said - upper middle class.
Being rich isn't so much about income as it's about net worth. There are people who make $30,000 a year at their job but have a $20 million dollar trust fund--they're rich. There are people who make $250,000 a year but have 6 kids and a stay-at-home spouse and live paycheck-to-paycheck--they're not rich.
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
:sleep:
Anyway, how do you know how much your brother's household brings in? I have no idea what my brother makes as that's something I'd never ask him (nor tell him if he asked). :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
:sleep:
Anyway, how do you know how much your brother's household brings in? I have no idea what my brother makes as that's something I'd never ask him (nor tell him if he asked). :hmm:
Would you help your brother financially if he has money problems?
I haven't even thought about that, since the chances of it happening are pretty small. He's a regulatory compliance manager for T-Mobile, and his soon-to-be wife is a chemical engineer at DuPont. :cool:
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
:sleep:
Anyway, how do you know how much your brother's household brings in? I have no idea what my brother makes as that's something I'd never ask him (nor tell him if he asked). :hmm:
Why are you so obtuse with money with your family?
:huh: I figured I was the normal one here, not the other way around.
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 07:51:35 PM
:huh: I figured I was the normal one here, not the other way around.
Maybe you are.
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 14, 2012, 07:49:08 PM
Why are you so obtuse with money with your family?
Obtuse? :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 07:51:35 PM
:huh: I figured I was the normal one here, not the other way around.
I don't know what my brother makes either, except that it's a heck of a lot more than what I make. About all I know about his finances is that his mortgage payment is almost as much as my take-home pay, and he makes enough that he can pay that and a car payment, and his wife can afford to be a stay-at-home wife and not work.
Well yeah... I'm sure my brother assumes that I make more than he does, since I'm five years further along in my career track than he is and I work for an employer that he can reasonably guess pays very well. But I've never told him how much or even given him a ballpark.
We both kinda know we're doing well enough to consider making joint real estate investments, though.
I do not know specific finances of my siblings, but I strive for a mild awareness (especially of their debts) so that I can plan for future emergencies in which they (and my parents) may need my time and money.
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 08:26:10 PM
We both kinda know we're doing well enough to consider making joint real estate investments, though.
bad, bad idea. Bad.
My brother and I are really close. There's a good chance we would never agree on anything (which wouldn't result in hurt feelings), but if we did we'll make it work.
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 08:43:45 PM
My brother and I are really close. There's a good chance we would never agree on anything (which wouldn't result in hurt feelings), but if we did we'll make it work.
Did you approve each other's spouse before marriage?
Not in any formal sense, but he made it clear that he did NOT like my college girlfriend... I wasn't really planning on marrying her anyway, so it didn't really matter though. He also made it clear that he liked Princesca. On the flip side, he really wanted me to meet his girlfriend before he considered marrying her, and I told him he found a keeper.
He wanted the four of us to go on a cruise during which he was going to propose to his girlfriend, but I got a new job at the last minute and felt like I could no longer take the time off, so he ended up going to Menorca with her and proposing there.
My bro ran background checks on my girlfriends.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.backupot.com%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fgreat.gif&hash=4d76760a3643431d3bfbfdd76a8970e45d4a1b9d)
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 08:48:20 PM
Not in any formal sense, but he made it clear that he did NOT like my college girlfriend... I wasn't really planning on marrying her anyway, so it didn't really matter though. He also made it clear that he liked Princesca. On the flip side, he really wanted me to meet his girlfriend before he considered marrying her, and I told him he found a keeper.
He wanted the four of us to go on a cruise during which he was going to propose to his girlfriend, but I got a new job at the last minute and felt like I could no longer take the time off, so he ended up going to Menorca with her and proposing there.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 14, 2012, 08:50:04 PM
My bro ran background checks on my girlfriends.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.backupot.com%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fgreat.gif&hash=4d76760a3643431d3bfbfdd76a8970e45d4a1b9d)
You gringos are weird.
Bros before hos.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 14, 2012, 08:50:04 PM
My bro ran background checks on my girlfriends.
I ran my own.
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 08:43:45 PM
My brother and I are really close. There's a good chance we would never agree on anything (which wouldn't result in hurt feelings), but if we did we'll make it work.
I'll be here to tell ya I told you so :hug: :P
$200,000? Thats well into the domain of upper class.
Doing a flat currency conversion $50,000 or so would seem to be roughly the working/middle class border (though of course it is an imperfect one and depends on your job and other stuff too).
Upper class....Well the $100,000 figure seems close to it.
You're upper class once money ceases to be a concern.
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
$200,000? Thats well into the domain of upper class.
Doing a flat currency conversion $50,000 or so would seem to be roughly the working/middle class border (though of course it is an imperfect one and depends on your job and other stuff too).
Upper class....Well the $100,000 figure seems close to it.
You're upper class once money ceases to be a concern.
Money can very much be a concern for a family making $100K/year. That amount of spending money for a single young person - definitely wealthy (and a nice party), but for a family? Definitely depends, especially on location.
Quote from: Phillip V on September 14, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
How does your brother earn so much money? :o
He sells insurance to insurance companies. He plays with billions of dollars everyday, and they pay him well for the privilege. He couldn't pass any of the actuarial exams so he chose this career path instead.
So he's dumber then Dguller?
Quote from: Caliga on September 14, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: merithyn on September 14, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
To me, any household with an income over $150k is on the wealthier end of things.
:sleep:
Anyway, how do you know how much your brother's household brings in? I have no idea what my brother makes as that's something I'd never ask him (nor tell him if he asked). :hmm:
He tells my mom when he gets a raise. She tells us. Or he tells us when he gets drunk.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2012, 12:14:17 AM
So he's dumber then Dguller?
Given his income, I don't think he minds.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2012, 12:14:17 AM
So he's dumber then Dguller?
I've known rocks that were dumber than guller. :hmm:
They are making silicon pretty smart these days.
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
$200,000? Thats well into the domain of upper class.
Doing a flat currency conversion $50,000 or so would seem to be roughly the working/middle class border (though of course it is an imperfect one and depends on your job and other stuff too).
Upper class....Well the $100,000 figure seems close to it.
You're upper class once money ceases to be a concern.
A rather American view, as an Englishman you should know that class has very little to do with household income :bowler:
I know how much my brother makes, but only because it came up in the context of him maxing out on the Georgia teachers' pay scale.
Quote from: Jacob on September 14, 2012, 11:51:29 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
$200,000? Thats well into the domain of upper class.
Doing a flat currency conversion $50,000 or so would seem to be roughly the working/middle class border (though of course it is an imperfect one and depends on your job and other stuff too).
Upper class....Well the $100,000 figure seems close to it.
You're upper class once money ceases to be a concern.
Money can very much be a concern for a family making $100K/year. That amount of spending money for a single young person - definitely wealthy (and a nice party), but for a family? Definitely depends, especially on location.
Even at $200k money is still a concern for a family. Not in any - oh we'd better watch out or we'll become destitute but certainly in a money is still an object and you can't spend it all willy nilly (/could be fucked over by a major illness if they didn't have the right insurance).