Bizarre, seems very 19th century.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/honduras-signs-deal-create-private-cities-17154881#.UE2lkVG86T8
QuoteHonduras Sets Stage for 3 Privately Run Cities
By ALBERTO ARCE Associated Press
TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras September 5, 2012 (AP)
Investors can begin construction in six months on three privately run cities in Honduras that will have their own police, laws, government and tax systems now that the government has signed a memorandum of agreement approving the project.
An international group of investors and government representatives signed the memorandum Tuesday for the project that some say will bring badly needed economic growth to this small Central American country and that at least one detractor describes as "a catastrophe."
The project's aim is to strengthen Honduras' weak government and failing infrastructure, overwhelmed by corruption, drug-related crime and lingering political instability after a 2009 coup.
The project "has the potential to turn Honduras into an engine of wealth," said Carlos Pineda, president of the Commission for the Promotion of Public-Private Partnerships. It can be "a development instrument typical of first world countries."
The "model cities" will have their own judiciary, laws, governments and police forces. They also will be empowered to sign international agreements on trade and investment and set their own immigration policy.
Congress president Juan Hernandez said the investment group MGK will invest $15 million to begin building basic infrastructure for the first model city near Puerto Castilla on the Caribbean coast. That first city would create 5,000 jobs over the next six months and up to 200,000 jobs in the future, Hernandez said. South Korea has given Honduras $4 million to conduct a feasibility study, he said.
"The future will remember this day as that day that Honduras began developing," said Michael Strong, CEO of the MKG Group. "We believe this will be one of the most important transformations in the world, through which Honduras will end poverty by creating thousands of jobs."
Hernandez said another city will be built in the Sula Valley, in northern Honduras, and a third in southern Honduras. He gave no other details.
The project is opposed by civic groups as well as the indigenous Garifuna people, who say they don't want their land near Puerto Castilla on the Caribbean coast to be used for the project. Living along Central America's Caribbean coast, the Garifuna are descendants of the Amazon's Arawak Indians, the Caribbean's Caribes and escaped West African slaves.
"These territories are the Garifuna people's and can't be handed over to foreign capital in an action that is pure colonialism like that lived in Honduras during the time that our land became a banana enclave," said Miriam Miranda, president of the Fraternal Black Organization of Honduras.
Oscar Cruz, a former constitutional prosecutor, filed a motion with the Supreme Court last year characterizing the project as unconstitutional and "a catastrophe for Honduras."
"The cities involve the creation of a state within the state, a commercial entity with state powers outside the jurisdiction of the government," Cruz said.
The Supreme Court has not taken up his complaint.
so basically a state with little power gives away what little power remains in these places. Might as well disband yourself then.
Privatization of cities sounds very Republican, actually. No more unions, yay!
So now the drug cartels can just run their own cities directly then instead of bribing everybody? Good way to cut out the middleman.
Mindboggling. So wrong on so many levels.
Also, an investment of $15 million? Are they kidding? It's not enough to build one building. :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on September 10, 2012, 05:34:32 AM
Also, an investment of $15 million? Are they kidding? It's not enough to build one building. :huh:
it is if you use corrugated iron and cowdung... <_<
Sounds like a nice recipe for a dystopia. Let the private companies run the lovely money making cities whilst the government has to deal with trying to keep the loss making food and worker breeding ground countryside going. Just like so many other privatisations.
I think the idea is very very interesting. My interest was also piqued by Paulville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulville,_Texas) which seems to have similar aspirations (without the full legal support of the government). I'm just glad they are doing this on greenfield sites in a shithole country. If it works, great, we know more than we did before and the human test subjects are happier. If it fails, oh well, we know more than we did before and the human test subjects are bankrupt and amply demonstrate the credulity of individual humans.
I think this is an attempt to address the common problem for all western democratic (and aspiring to be democratic) societies. That problem is alienation between government and the population. It is primarily a result of the the professionalization of government. Yes, I believe Fukayama is right and history has come to an end, it's only that people like Santorum, Bin Laden and Chavez are prefectly capable of holding on to their cherished ideas and as Russel points out not only willing to die for them but often do. Government (for all well run countries) is run by people who know what they are doing and they are voted in by people who don't. Voting doesn't change much since the change voters usually want would be catastrophic and the problems that exist are not solvable by the short, simple and wrong solutions proposed by populists.
I hope this works and I look forward to seeing the results.
Quote from: Tyr on September 10, 2012, 06:06:52 AM
Sounds like a nice recipe for a dystopia. Let the private companies run the lovely money making cities whilst the government has to deal with trying to keep the loss making food and worker breeding ground countryside going. Just like so many other privatisations.
How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Central American cities are lovely money makers? :huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2012, 06:26:26 AM
How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Central American cities are lovely money makers? :huh:
I'm speaking more broadly about the entire idea of privatised cities.
Cities tend to be the money making part of a country and companies wouldn't get involved if there was no money to be made.
Quote from: Tyr on September 10, 2012, 06:29:29 AM
I'm speaking more broadly about the entire of privatised cities.
Like what? :huh:
QuoteCities tend to be the money making part of a country and companies wouldn't get involved if there was no money to be made.
Of course they wouldn't get involved unless there were money to be made.
Did you read in the article that the investors are building these cities from scratch? The whole point of the excercise is to create wealth where none existed before.
We had cities with their own laws, regulations, law enforcement etc in the past. It is arguably the default mode of running a town or city in Europe, if we take a long-term view that is :hmm:
How much latitude do they have with setting their own laws? Can a powerful CEO have his workers that demand higher wages euthanized, if the city-state's laws allow that?
QuoteWe had cities with their own laws, regulations, law enforcement etc in the past. It is arguably the default mode of running a town or city in Europe, if we take a long-term view that is :hmm:
And it really sucked to be a farmer.
Or a poor person in the cities.
Or anyone really.
But moreso the rural poor.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 10, 2012, 06:41:17 AM
Like what?
Like what what?
Quote
Of course they wouldn't get involved unless there were money to be made.
Did you read in the article that the investors are building these cities from scratch? The whole point of the excercise is to create wealth where none existed before.
Not directly relevant to what I was talking about but that's an iffy proposition. Wealth isn't a zero sum game but it is a lot more give and take than people often give it credit for.
If you google Michael Strong and MKG Group you get... nothing. There is an MKG Group but clearly different from this one.
I remember reading about efforts to establish "free cities" in central america in the past. They were spearheaded by libertarian / Randian / Austrian economics types. I suspect this is the same. Marty is right though - $15 mil doesn't get you anything.
:hmm: I think I have a solution for our Ron Paul problem.
The 15 million $ are quoted for "basic infrastructure" at one of the future cities, so I guess that means lots of pipes, cables and power lines. Maybe at Honduran rates that gets you plenty of manpower and stuff.
Quote from: The Larch on September 10, 2012, 10:37:02 AM
The 15 million $ are quoted for "basic infrastructure" at one of the future cities, so I guess that means lots of pipes, cables and power lines. Maybe at Honduran rates that gets you plenty of manpower and stuff.
That's still a miniscule amount, if you consider a budget for your average public works project.
If they were talking billions, not millions, it would be closer to the mark.
Quote from: DGuller on September 10, 2012, 08:25:08 AM
How much latitude do they have with setting their own laws? Can a powerful CEO have his workers that demand higher wages euthanized, if the city-state's laws allow that?
Yeah, I find this bizarre for this very reason. In fact, any deprivation of life, liberty or health should be banned - but then the laws would really have no teeth.
Quote from: The Larch on September 10, 2012, 10:37:02 AM
The 15 million $ are quoted for "basic infrastructure" at one of the future cities, so I guess that means lots of pipes, cables and power lines. Maybe at Honduran rates that gets you plenty of manpower and stuff.
A quick search revealed that when Honduras unveiled a large bus station that could service most destinations in the country it cost 16 million USD.
It's enough to pave a few km and build a couple empty warehouses.
OCP should get in on this.
Apparently in Honduras they have like 50% unemployment and 65% of the population in poverty, maybe they're establishing some kind of slave work provision into this deal.
Real life version of Tropico or SimCity.
Quote from: Viking on September 10, 2012, 06:07:39 AMIf it works, great, we know more than we did before and the human test subjects are happier. If it fails, oh well, we know more than we did before and the human test subjects are bankrupt and amply demonstrate the credulity of individual humans.
The only thing we're going to learn from it is how long it takes before the Honduran government changes their mind and re-annexes them. The faster they grow the sooner it will be.