Kidnapping sounds like a violent crime to me. ???
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29659021/
QuoteU.S. plans for Mexico border violence
Official: Military force last resort in dealing with drug wars
updated 6:42 p.m. ET, Thurs., March. 12, 2009
WASHINGTON - A top Homeland Security official told a House panel Thursday that Mexican drug cartels are the biggest organized crime threat to the United States.
Homeland Security official Roger Rufe said a department plan to respond to escalating violence on the southwest border includes — as a last resort — deploying military personnel and equipment to the region if homeland security agencies become overwhelmed.
Rufe, echoing comments a day earlier from President Barack Obama, said now is not the time to militarize the southwest border.
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"We would take all resources short of DoD and National Guard troops before we reach that tipping point," Rufe told lawmakers. "We very much do not want to militarize our border."
Rufe said military forces would be called in only when homeland security and other government agencies are overwhelmed. He did not specify what circumstances would trigger a call for troops.
The Mexican government has deployed 700 extra federal police to Ciudad Juarez, a city bordering Texas where local police have been overwhelmed by drug violence. Earlier this month, 3,200 federal troops were sent to the city.
Mexican officials say the violence killed 6,290 people last year — and more than 1,000 in the first eight weeks of 2009. Warring drug cartels are blamed for more than 560 kidnappings in Phoenix in 2007 and the first half of 2008, and killings in Atlanta, and Birmingham, Ala.
Rufe said while the violence along the border in Mexico is appalling, violent crimes have not increased in U.S. border cities as a result. He said kidnappings are up, but violent crime is down.
"We're not so concerned, at least at this point, about that violence spilling over into our cities," he said.
Warnings issued to travelers
Further, the Homeland Security Department's attache to Mexico said the violence in Mexico is not as dangerous to U.S. tourists as has been portrayed.
Alonzo Pena said the violence is in isolated areas of the country and only affects the people involved in criminal activity. He said the violence is not affecting U.S. citizens visiting Mexico and Americans should not cancel their vacations in the country.
Earlier this month, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives warned college students on spring breaks not to travel to parts of northern Mexico because it was too dangerous.
In February, the State Department advised travelers to avoid areas of prostitution and drug-dealing in Mexico.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Think about who they are kidnapping.
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Think about who they are kidnapping.
Kidnapping their own in most cases, plus what else they're likely up to is also disturbing. So it seems the fact is that the dealers, players and thugs are here in large numbers to be so active.
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 12:07:09 PM
Kidnapping their own in most cases, plus what else they're likely up to is also disturbing. So it seems the fact is that the dealers, players and thugs are here in large numbers to be so active.
Sorry I should have quoted better. My post was really a reply to your last sentence.
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 12:07:09 PM
Kidnapping their own in most cases, plus what else they're likely up to is also disturbing. So it seems the fact is that the dealers, players and thugs are here in large numbers to be so active.
Sorry I should have quoted better. My post was really a reply to your last sentence.
Hmm...ok. So I think you mean that since those involved in the drug trade in some way were the ones being kidnapped, or prosecuted for it, then the news wasn't so fast to report it like they might if it were random kidnappings for money.
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 12:16:48 PM
Hmm...ok. So I think you mean that since those involved in the drug trade in some way were the ones being kidnapped, or prosecuted for it, then the news wasn't so fast to report it like they might if it were random kidnappings for money.
That and because it often involves illegal immigrants being kidnapped. We don't care as much about non-innocent victims nor those illegally in our country. Not that such a mindset is right, but I'd wager that's part of the reason there hasn't been a lot of media play.
Economist says that Mexico and Pakistan are considered the greatest threats as 'failed states' to the US in several categories. :(
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 12:20:07 PM
That and because it often involves illegal immigrants being kidnapped. We don't care as much about non-innocent victims nor those illegally in our country. Not that such a mindset is right, but I'd wager that's part of the reason there hasn't been a lot of media play.
Just wait till a pretty blonde chick gets kidnapped. 24/7 coverage.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 13, 2009, 12:28:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 12:20:07 PM
That and because it often involves illegal immigrants being kidnapped. We don't care as much about non-innocent victims nor those illegally in our country. Not that such a mindset is right, but I'd wager that's part of the reason there hasn't been a lot of media play.
Just wait till a pretty blonde chick gets kidnapped. 24/7 coverage.
Americans are missing after going to Mexico. Kidnapped for various reasons, like one case where a young woman was taken to be given to some local thug. That finally made the news, after being a story out there for a long time. The father was on tv talking about it. Now some colleges are telling their students to stay out of Mexico on spring break. This stuff has been going on, on both sides of the border, but getting little attention. Maybe it isn't big enough yet, or as you say, the sensational case hasn't yet caught our or the media's attention.
I guess nukes are out of the question, to close, but conventional bombs could work, we have plenty stockpiled we could get rid off.
A good civil war in Mexico spilling over into the SW states will make good TV. Hopefully the intensity picks up and we get JDAM strikes on border-dodging hordes spilling over. 8)
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 13, 2009, 01:30:54 PM
A good civil war in Mexico spilling over into the SW states will make good TV. Hopefully the intensity picks up and we get JDAM strikes on border-dodging hordes spilling over. 8)
Who's this guy again?
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 13, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Who's this guy again?
He's of no importance. And I've found it surprisingly easy to ignore posts by foreign names. :)
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 13, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Who's this guy again?
He's of no importance. And I've found it surprisingly easy to ignore posts by foreign names. :)
I'm loved by most here. If a half-nigger faggot and a emo frog aren't two of them, I won't lose any sleep. :)
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 13, 2009, 02:03:49 PM
I'm loved by most here.
You created a puppet so someone would respond to your posts. That doesn't signify love to me...???
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 13, 2009, 02:03:49 PM
I'm loved by most here.
You created a puppet so someone would respond to your posts. That doesn't signify love to me...???
You're wrong and doing a poor job of ignoring me. :)
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 13, 2009, 02:12:19 PM
You're wrong and doing a poor job of ignoring me. :)
That's because I love you. :(
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 02:50:38 PM
That's because I love you. :(
Sometimes I don't hate you. This isn't one of those times. :)
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 13, 2009, 02:03:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 13, 2009, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 13, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Who's this guy again?
He's of no importance. And I've found it surprisingly easy to ignore posts by foreign names. :)
I'm loved by most here. If a half-nigger faggot and a emo frog aren't two of them, I won't lose any sleep. :)
I didn't say anything about love, I just don't know who you are. Jukaga.
Would I rather get deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Mexico?
Quote from: Phillip V on March 13, 2009, 07:02:27 PM
Would I rather get deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Mexico?
How is it even a question? Mexico has a better climate, and the culture and language is far more understandable.
2000 more troops arrive in Ciudad Juarez.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29690370/
SUV's with antiaircraft guns on them? Sounds like Africa.
Also, the death toll has surpassed 10,000 :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30217341/
QuoteAnti-aircraft machine gun nets Mexico arrest
Police on a routine patrol Monday found the gun fitted atop an SUV
updated 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY - Mexican authorities arrested a woman guarding an arsenal that included the first anti-aircraft machine gun seized in Mexico, police said Tuesday, as the army announced the capture of an alleged top drug cartel lieutenant.
The arsenal belonged to a group linked to the powerful Beltran-Leyva drug cartel, federal police coordinator Gen. Rodolfo Cruz said. It also included ammunition, five rifles, a grenade and part of a grenade launcher.
Mexican drug cartels, battling a fierce crackdown by soldiers and federal police, have increasingly gotten hold of higher-powered weapons, even military-grade arms such as grenades and machine guns. That has left police — particularly state and municipal forces — grossly outgunned, and many officers have quit following attacks.
Gun found atop SUV
Cruz said the confiscated .50-caliber, anti-aircraft machine gun can fire 800 rounds per minute and is capable of penetrating armor from more than 5,000 feet away. Police on a routine patrol Monday found the gun fitted atop an SUV at a house in northern Sonora state.
Authorities did not release any other details about the gun, including its make, where it was manufactured, or where it was sold.
The arrested suspect, Anahi Beltran Cabrera, apparently is not related to the Beltran-Leyva clan, Cruz said.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has traced many guns seized at scenes of drug violence in Mexico to U.S. commercial sources. But determining the source of military-grade weapons such as grenades and fully automatic machine guns is more complicated.
The ATF says the grenades are mostly smuggled in through Central America, and have been traced back to the militaries of many countries, from South Korea to Spain and Israel. Some may be leftovers from the Central American civil wars.
Assailants have fired on government aircraft performing anti-drug missions in Mexico in the past, but apparently never with the caliber of weapon found Monday.
In 2006, a helicopter on a federal drug-eradication mission crashed while trying to escape ground fire, and a second helicopter was damaged by gunfire in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero.
Problem of gun smuggling
Mexico is upgrading its northern and southern border checkpoints in an effort to detect and seize more guns and other contraband, installing equipment that will weigh and photograph each car and truck coming into the country.
President Barack Obama has promised to do more to stop gun trafficking from the United States to Mexico. He has pledged to dispatch nearly 500 more federal agents to the border, along with X-ray machines and drug-sniffing dogs.
Also Tuesday, the Mexican army announced the capture of Ruben Granados Vargas, an alleged lieutenant for the Beltran-Leyva drug cartel in the Pacific coast state of Guerrero.
Gen. Luis Arturo Oliver said soldiers caught Granados Vargas and two other suspects with four rifles and 2.6 pounds (1.2 kilograms) of opium on Monday.
Granados Vargas allegedly ran the cartel's drug planting, harvesting and trafficking operations on the coast west of the resort of Acapulco.
Turf war with alleged cartel
He is implicated in a number of kidnappings and killings in the region, including attacks as part of a turf war with an alleged Sinaloa cartel rival that left 17 people dead last year, organized crime prosecutor Marisela Morales said.
Granados Vargas' wife, sister-in-law and two sons were later killed in retaliation, prosecutors.
Mexico's drug violence has claimed more than 10,650 lives since President Felipe Calderon launched a military-led offensive against trafficking cartels in December 2006.
In March, the government sent thousands more troops to the northern border to quell escalating violence. The government announced Sunday that drug-related homicides fell 26 percent across the country in the first three months of the year, compared to the same period in 2008.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Generally speaking, things that are bad for Phoenix are, in the long run, good for American culture.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 14, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Generally speaking, things that are bad for Phoenix are, in the long run, good for American culture.
:yeahright: Elaborate.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2009, 11:34:10 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 14, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
Quote from: KRonn on March 13, 2009, 07:34:18 AM
Phoenix is second in kidnappings in the world. That is disturbing; I saw it reported a couple of weeks ago. The US arrested hundreds last week across the US, related to Mexican dealers, so that alone shows we already have a problem that spills over here from Mexico. That was in the news and I think posted on the old Languish forum. Amazing, and disturbing, that this stuff is just now being talked about in the US but has been going on or in the making for years.
Generally speaking, things that are bad for Phoenix are, in the long run, good for American culture.
:yeahright: Elaborate.
He's never been to Phoenix and is thus talking out of his ass.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2009, 11:26:56 PM
SUV's with antiaircraft guns on them?
No fair. I want AA guns on mine too.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 14, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
Generally speaking, things that are bad for Phoenix are, in the long run, good for American culture.
The Cardinals losing the Superbowl to the Steelers is a good example. :)
QuoteA top Homeland Security official told a House panel Thursday that Mexican drug cartels are the biggest organized crime threat to the United States.
This line always cracks me up everytime I read it.
I am so glad we have geniuses like this official around to tell us what has been true since the 80s.
QuotePresident Barack Obama has promised to do more to stop gun trafficking from the United States to Mexico. He has pledged to dispatch nearly 500 more federal agents to the border, along with X-ray machines and drug-sniffing dogs.
You better be doing more than that Mr. President. We need to destroy those criminal gangs. We should be sending money and weapons and advisors and anything else the Mexican Army needs. Their war is our war. We are all Mexicans.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2009, 11:34:10 PM
:yeahright: Elaborate.
Phoenix is generic and dreary endless suburban hell with all of the personality and colorfulness of a Starbucks?
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:36:17 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2009, 11:34:10 PM
:yeahright: Elaborate.
Phoenix is generic and dreary endless suburban hell with all of the personality and colorfulness of a Starbucks?
Then shouldn't one wish for good things to happen to Phoenix so it improves, rather than wish for bad things that will make it worse?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2009, 03:58:27 PM
Then shouldn't one wish for good things to happen to Phoenix so it improves, rather than wish for bad things that will make it worse?
Yes. I was just explaining what I assumed MP was getting at.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2009, 03:58:27 PM
Then shouldn't one wish for good things to happen to Phoenix so it improves, rather than wish for bad things that will make it worse?
If things get too bad it burns down and then rises from its ashes.
We've been trying that strategy in Detroit for some time now.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:34:57 PM
You better be doing more than that Mr. President. We need to destroy those criminal gangs. We should be sending money and weapons and advisors and anything else the Mexican Army needs. Their war is our war. We are all Mexicans.
That has fail written all over it. And the Republicans would win in 2012 when it comes out that the cartels are waging a war against our border forces using money, weapons, and US trained Mexican forces we so thoughtfully provided.
Propping up a corrupt country and system seldom works.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:34:57 PM
You better be doing more than that Mr. President. We need to destroy those criminal gangs. We should be sending money and weapons and advisors and anything else the Mexican Army needs. Their war is our war. We are all Mexicans.
Instead, he's going to take a trip to Mexico to show solidarity! :swiss:
QuoteObama off to Mexico to show solidarity in drug war
Quote from: Strix on April 15, 2009, 07:32:20 PM
That has fail written all over it. And the Republicans would win in 2012 when it comes out that the cartels are waging a war against our border forces using money, weapons, and US trained Mexican forces we so thoughtfully provided.
Propping up a corrupt country and system seldom works.
Yet it worked in Columbia. So we are supposed to ask Mexico to clean up the border and give them no support? That has fail written all over it. People with moronic opinions like yours is why that region is fucked up to begin with. Then you come cry to us about illegal immigration and border security. Fuck you sir.
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 12:12:15 PM
Instead, he's going to take a trip to Mexico to show solidarity! :swiss:
Lame. Photo ops with the Mexican President are all we usually do.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Strix on April 15, 2009, 07:32:20 PM
That has fail written all over it. And the Republicans would win in 2012 when it comes out that the cartels are waging a war against our border forces using money, weapons, and US trained Mexican forces we so thoughtfully provided.
Propping up a corrupt country and system seldom works.
Yet it worked in Columbia. So we are supposed to ask Mexico to clean up the border and give them no support? That has fail written all over it. People with moronic opinions like yours is why that region is fucked up to begin with. Then you come cry to us about illegal immigration and border security. Fuck you sir.
No need to sugarcoat it Valmy, tell us what you really think.
I agree with Valmy. Mexico may very well be the new Colombia. Or at least Colombia is looking like a Latin American success story compared to most of the rest of the hemisphere below the Rio Grande.
Liquidate the population of the border areas, form expeditions to sack and loot the interior.
problem solved.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 02:24:21 PM
Liquidate the population of the border areas, form expeditions to sack and loot the interior.
problem solved.
Thats your solution to everything.
It didn't work for the neighbor's kids on your lawn, and it won't work for Mexico. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Barrister on April 16, 2009, 02:25:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 02:24:21 PM
Liquidate the population of the border areas, form expeditions to sack and loot the interior.
problem solved.
Thats your solution to everything.
It didn't work for the neighbor's kids on your lawn, and it won't work for Mexico. :rolleyes:
I have access to wooded areas. It works.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Strix on April 15, 2009, 07:32:20 PM
That has fail written all over it. And the Republicans would win in 2012 when it comes out that the cartels are waging a war against our border forces using money, weapons, and US trained Mexican forces we so thoughtfully provided.
Propping up a corrupt country and system seldom works.
Yet it worked in Columbia. So we are supposed to ask Mexico to clean up the border and give them no support? That has fail written all over it. People with moronic opinions like yours is why that region is fucked up to begin with. Then you come cry to us about illegal immigration and border security. Fuck you sir.
The Mexican government is unwilling to take ownership for the position it has placed itself in. The US sending them a "care package" won't accomplish anything other than feeling warm and fuzzy. If the US wants to help Mexico and the Mexicans are serious than the first major step is helping the US close the border down to illegal traffic.
Elite Mexican Units firing on US Border Patrol and other such incidents are examples of why sending aid, equipment, and advisers is pointless. Those resources are better used in the US if the Mexicans are unwilling to accept that their lack of border security is a major part of the problem.
And I would say it's your crowd that has screwed up the border situation. :lmfao:
Quote from: Strix on April 16, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
The US sending them a "care package" won't accomplish anything other than feeling warm and fuzzy.
If that was what you thought I was saying you are an idiot.
All measures must be taken to destroy the drug cartells and control the border, that includes helping the Mexican military destroy the Drug cartels and bring order to their side of the border. I have no idea what alternative you present than sitting around doing jack shit and using your hatred for Mexico as an excuse to do nothing.
QuoteAnd I would say it's your crowd that has screwed up the border situation.
My crowd which has been ignored in favor of doing nothing? Yes we are totally responsible. Your excuse making has been really effective so far.
QuoteElite Mexican Units firing on US Border Patrol and other such incidents are examples of why sending aid, equipment, and advisers is pointless. Those resources are better used in the US if the Mexicans are unwilling to accept that their lack of border security is a major part of the problem.
Why should they accept their border security is a major part of the problem when we don't? I think sending the army to take control of the border area is a pretty big step don't you? How the fuck do YOU want them to take responsibility?
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Strix on April 16, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
The US sending them a "care package" won't accomplish anything other than feeling warm and fuzzy.
If that was what you thought I was saying you are an idiot and beneath my contempt.
All measures must be taken to destroy the drug cartells and control the border, that includes helping the Mexican military destroy the Drug cartels and bring order to their side of the border. I have no idea what alternative you present than sitting around doing jack shit and using your hatred for Mexico as an excuse to do nothing.
QuoteAnd I would say it's your crowd that has screwed up the border situation.
My crowd which has been ignored in favor of doing nothing? Yes we are totally responsible. Your excuse making has been really effective so far.
That you think I hate Mexico shows just how ignorant you are as a person.
Sadly enough you repeat your ignorance by stating that I suggest we sit around and do nothing. First you supposedly know all my views on the border than you supposedly don't know any of them? Which is it?
I am all for helping Mexico fight their cartel issue. I am not all for giving them free aid, supplies, equipment, and advisers without some compromise on their side. Especially to their military which has been implicated in helping the cartels along the border and in the governmental corruption issues.
Mexico has a better chance of turning out like Vietnam and Cuba than Columbia at this point. Supporting and propping up a corrupt and ineffective government without assurances and safeguards will only place the US in a worse position if a coup or civil war eventually takes place.
It's a smarter and more strategic plan for the US to address closing and policing our side of the border and waiting for Mexico to provide proof that they are willing to address their corruption problems and other issues by being a partner with the US in resolving these issues.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 02:57:32 PM
Why should they accept their border security is a major part of the problem when we don't? I think sending the army to take control of the border area is a pretty big step don't you? How the fuck do YOU want them to take responsibility?
Except that elements of Mexican military have also been helping the cartels to smuggle stuff into the US. And some of the drug cartels "private" armies are made up of ex-Mexican and ex-US military especially ex-special forces. It's bad enough that we trained a lot of them it makes no sense to offer to train more. And that the drug cartels have some serious weapons that have no doubt been purchased from elements of the Mexican military.
I expect them to take responsibility by owning up to their issues and taking steps to address their corruption. Failure to do so will only endanger innocent Mexican and American lives if we offer them better weapons and advisers on how to use them.
I guess we just need to annex Mexico and help out our little brown brothers. It is the: white man's burden :(
Quote from: Caliga on April 16, 2009, 03:29:47 PM
I guess we just need to annex Mexico and help out our little brown brothers. It is the: white man's burden :(
We're increasingly the brown man.