I met with the mild-mannered Alfred Russel after a leisurely walk in a calming rain, and we set off at once for Shiloh.
I had deliberately avoided the place's 150th anniversary, but on my return I felt a profound emotional impact, which I was able to set aside by speaking about variously this or that- deliberately non civil-war related topics. I cannot tell if this annoyed my guest, and hoped I was suitably entertaining. I found myself unable to for long escape the thought of the gallantry and tragedy of Shiloh, but did my best.
We spoke of this, that, andother things, and had some mediocre barbecue. I regret the tour was not centred more directly around the peerless offerings of the beautiful river city, but it was still good to see the grounds of Shiloh again.
I regret I don't have more interesting to say- I assume Alf's post will be more illuminating than mine.
So, are there flying cars in 2025?
There were flying cars in the 70s. At least, James Bond had one.
Quote from: DGuller on August 25, 2012, 09:35:22 PM
So, are there flying cars in 2025?
I'm going to guess that's the way the Japanese write dates.
Lettow was a very gracious guide to Shiloh yesterday.
A few things of interest:
--Lettow knows a lot about the civil war. Like, a real lot. My navigation system lost all functionality once we left Memphis and we didn't have a map. We realized we had gone awry when we entered Alabama. Using his knowledge of the regional area and its topography, which seemed to be derived from the Civil War, Lettow directed us basically directly to the battlefield. We never asked for directions. It was rather impressive. He was also as good as a personal guide at the battlefield, though with a few side conversations that would not be anticipated with a normal guide. At least I don't anticipate that my little pony or the potential for space venice comes up frequently in your vanilla Shiloh battlefield tour.
--A recurring theme of discussion was the comparative merit and contributions of different societies, especially those located in subsahara africa. We did not come to a consensus. :)
--Did you know that there is a mississippian cultural site in the middle of the battlefield? I had no idea. Lettow seemed unimpressed, but this is an interest of mine so I was excited to see it.
--I shouldn't have suggested visiting Shiloh. Lettow is trying to move past the civil war, and I don't think visiting Shiloh helped things. We should have stayed in Memphis.
--I am a yankee that doesn't fit in with southwestern tennesse/northern mississippi. :(
--Lettow seemed rather alarmed by the fact that I was meeting him and concerned about personal safety. He seemed surprised that the opposite wasn't true, and this suprised me to an extent.
-- O O Those represent two circles in a venn diagram. The first circle encompasses Lettow's interests, the second encompasses mine. Notice the lack of overlap. :) I am somewhat exaggerating, but just a bit.
--Lettow knows an immense amount about various Japanese subcultures. See the previous bullet.
Crucially...Lettow, I forgot to get a list of restaurants in Memphis to try today (flying out this evening). Could you, or anyone that knows of a few in Memphis, post some recommendations? I'm just looking for the basic local cuisine.
Ah, um! There is any number of barbecue places- Corky's is well regarded.
Lou's Chicken is good stuff. These cover the primary twin pillars of Memphis Cuisine.
alfred, are you: Walking in Memphis?
http://www.yelp.com/biz/guss-world-famous-hot-and-spicy-chicken-memphis
A warning about Gus's: Their chicken is magnificent, and their sides are quite poor.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 26, 2012, 08:53:59 AM
Ah, um! There is any number of barbecue places- Corky's is well regarded.
Lou's Chicken is good stuff. These cover the primary twin pillars of Memphis Cuisine.
Awesome--thanks Lettow. I will be able to brave poor sides, I imagine.
Scipio, I will try one place your place this evening.
Quote from: Syt on August 26, 2012, 08:57:53 AM
alfred, are you: Walking in Memphis?
You know it.
I approve of this thread. At some point I need to get down to Memphis and environs (my cousin and his family live in Jackson, Tennessee), and I shall enlist Lettuce to take me on a tour of Shiloh and, time allowing, Vicksburg. Closest battlefield I've been to in that area is Franklin. :bowler:
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2012, 08:37:44 AM
--Lettow knows a lot about the civil war. Like, a real lot.
Good; then every mention of Sherman is one more arrow in the heart of the South, and its stupid assed romanticism of a morally bankrupt society.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2012, 11:37:26 AM
Good; then every mention of Sherman is one more arrow in the heart of the South, and its stupid assed romanticism of a morally bankrupt society.
What are you talking about, without Sherman that romanticism would be harder to maintain.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 26, 2012, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2012, 11:37:26 AM
Good; then every mention of Sherman is one more arrow in the heart of the South, and its stupid assed romanticism of a morally bankrupt society.
What are you talking about, without Sherman that romanticism would be harder to maintain.
Should've split his column once more, and sent another one west, straight through to Austin.
For the interested parties, I'm going to go overboard with AARs, in excruciating detail.
A culinary AAR (if you are wondering why I ate baked beans and slaw at every meal, let me explain that I was trying not to substitute from standard meals):
Saturday:
Lunch:
I flew in to Memphis Saturday morning and picked up Lettow. We drove to Shiloh and found some random hole in the wall barbeque place to eat.
I got a pork plate, with pulled pork, fries, baked beans (I think), and slaw (I think) with Texas toast. Price: $8.65.
Review: I was starving. The food was decent, not great. The pulled pork was pulled pork; it really needed sauce and couldn't stand on its own. That I can't remember for certain my sides probably speaks to their quality, however, this place definitely was what I was hoping when we pulled in (as it was a total shot in the dark). A solid B (an A if you consider the circumstances).
By the time we got back and I dropped off Lettow and got to my hotel, it was 8:30. I told myself I was skipping dinner for a food orgy the next day, but really I was just wiped out.
Sunday:
Lunch:
Took Scips recommendation and went to Gus's. I got fried chicken (breast and wing) with sides of slaw and baked beans with white bread. Price: $6.66 (seriously).
Review: I am considering declaring it the best fried chicken I have ever had, and it probably was, however, that may be overselling it a bit because because I think fried chicken has an upper ceiling that is reasonably easily approachable. The baked beans were good, but I agree with Lettow that the sides came up short with the slaw, which was basically mediocre. Overall assessment: this place was awesome. Definitely going back if I end up in Memphis again.
Dinner:
I took Lettow's recommendation and went to Corky's. They have several locations, and I know that barbecue places can vary a lot based on the smokers they use, so I tried to go to the original. I ordered a rib dinner with a dry rub (the Memphis specialty). Sides were baked beans and slaw, with a roll. Price $17.52.
Review: I've never had ribs with a dry rub, so it is hard to compare it to anything. I liked it. It was especially good that they were much less messy than normal ribs. I'll order them again if I have a chance. However, there seemed to be comparatively little meat on the ribs compared to other ribs I have eaten. The rib meat to dry rub ratio was lower than I expected. Sometimes I thought I was eating as much dry rub as rib meat. I avoided using any BBQ sauce just because I didn't want to obscure the meat any more. The sides were really good; the best of the meals I had. That goes for the baked beans, slaw, and bread.
Overall Assessment of Food on Trip
I'd give it an A. Hopefully I end up in Memphis again. However, this was a seriously self-abusive amount of barbecue and fried chicken in 2 days, and I ended up in some pain Sunday evening. This was very concerning to me as you never want to have such issues when flying, but things held together.
AR... why were you in Memphis?
Memphis detailed AAR:
Skipping Saturday which was obviously with Lettow and sort of already covered, highlights of Memphis in less than a day (and with much of it spent eating):
--I walked around Lee Park, which is along the Mississippi. I love walking along the Mississippi, with the barges going back and forth, downtown Memphis in the background, Arkansas across the river, and a couple of solid bridges in the view. I assumed that this was named for Bobby Lee, as Memphis also features parks named for N B Forrest and Jeff Davis, but it turns out I was wrong: it was named for a black guy that risked his life to save people from a sinking boat. There was even an obelisk erected to him in 1954, declaring him "a worth Negro." So that was a pleasant surprise.
--Beale Street: I walked the full length to Forrest Park and back. Sunday early afternoon is probably not the best time to visit, but it seemed rather touristy. Forrest Park has the grave and giant statue to N B Forrest, former slaver turned Confederate general turned first grandmaster of the KKK. Wanted to visit to see the way it is documented. He has a rather impressive statue, but is looking onto Union Avenue, and has an American flag behind him. Also is peering directly into an Office Depot megastore parking lot.
--Visited the site of the MLK assassination. There is a museum there but didn't have time to enter. There were surprisingly few people around. I found a spot in the shade and watched people visit the site for several minutes. It was kind of cool to see the diversity of people at the site paying tribute. There were some Europeans, an interracial couple, several black people a couple of which seemed somewhat emotional, and a few white people. I thought that was really cool.
--The bridges: I love bridges. Unfortunately neither of the bridges across the Mississippi accommodates pedestrians, so I was reduced to driving across them and looking at them from the shore. I also was hoping to find a good lookout spot to see Memphis from Arkansas, but didn't find one. [note that this meant in the less than two days I entered Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, and Alabama].
--Graceland: This is the sort of place I would pay money not to enter. However, I stopped by just to see the scene. This may be the worst tourist trap in the country (though I didn't enter, so I can't say for certain it sucked). The parking lot charged $10 for parking, the cost for admission was between $32 and $70, depending on what you wanted to see. I refused to pay that much for parking when the surrounding area was empty, and just parked in a residential area next to the park. I was worried this was illegal because I was the only one doing it, but apparently it wasn't. Are people that visit Graceland just stupid? I wandered through the gift shops, peered into the car museum, could see the planes obstructed by a fence, and could see the mansion from a distance. The experience confirmed I never want to visit Graceland, but it wasn't as tacky as I expected and gave off positive Elvis vibes. I didn't spot any over the top Elvis fans. The audience skewed older though—I wonder how much longer it is going to stay a major tourist attraction. The guy died ~30 years ago.
Quote from: Caliga on August 27, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
AR... why were you in Memphis?
Basically to cover the things I've now hit in the AAR. :ph34r:
Quote from: alfred russel on August 27, 2012, 10:50:33 PM
I refused to pay that much for parking when the surrounding area was empty, and just parked in a residential area next to the park. I was worried this was illegal because I was the only one doing it, but apparently it wasn't.
You run the risk of the owners of the property having your car towed if you do so. Probably not a good idea if you're actually going into the park.
Gus's is indeed excellent chicken- I think it has rough equal, but is not surpassed, in the city. Its prices are hard to beat too- but for the sides, it is an absolutely wonderful gem.
Forrest Park's flag changes now and again. It has been a Confederate flag in the past, but this angers a lot of people. He sometimes receives vandalism- I used to show up to clean it. It has been two summers now, but time was, every summer on his birthday I would show up with a broom to sweep the park.
Graceland has people from across the world coming to see it- having made such a long journey, they have little choice but to get ripped off. And yeah, I don't think much of it either.
"Seriously self-abusive amount of barbecue and fried chicken?" It is daily life here. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 27, 2012, 11:39:41 PM
You run the risk of the owners of the property having your car towed if you do so. Probably not a good idea if you're actually going into the park.
I was parking in the street and there weren't any signs indicating parking restrictions. I think I was okay no matter what. But maybe not--it can't be so simple as everyone just pays $10 because there is a sign saying that is the parking lot, right?
Lettow, it was interesting to see the graffiti around Graceland with all the other countries represented, but for how much longer? If the Tupac estate was looking for some revenue, I wonder if they could surpass Graceland as a tourist draw.
Also Lettow, as a damnyankee that won't see eye to eye with you on the ACW, I can't begrudge you cleaning up a guy's vandalized grave. It wasn't vandalized when I saw it, and the park was in good order.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2012, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on August 26, 2012, 08:37:44 AM
--Lettow knows a lot about the civil war. Like, a real lot.
Good; then every mention of Sherman is one more arrow in the heart of the South, and its stupid assed romanticism of a morally bankrupt society.
Even some liberals are like that. The other day, I off-handedly mentioned (in context, I didn't randomly bring it up) that the CSA was an enemy of all humankind, evil in the same way that Nazis were evil, and that any person involved in the material support of its treason, which is to say every person within it that was not engaged in its overthrow (qualifying that, perhaps, with "free person," was a legitimate target of war. I got some pushback from a bisexual lady Democrat.
The point is, this gutlessness is the worst thing about the modern left.
I missed this earlier, had Navy stuff to do this weekend. I would have recommended The Cozy Corner Restaurant, pulled pork sandwich with a side of BBQ spaghetti. :licklips:
No blues Fredo?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2012, 06:54:43 AM
No blues Fredo?
No, not enough time. There was some live music being played on Beale, but that really doesn't count I guess.
One more Memphis recommendation, just for shits and giggles:
Dyer's
http://www.dyersonbeale.com/
You'll only eat there once.
What, nobody goes to Neely Brothers anymore in Memphis?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
What, nobody goes to Neely Brothers anymore in Memphis?
I've seen enough of those fuckers on the food network.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 28, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
What, nobody goes to Neely Brothers anymore in Memphis?
I've seen enough of those fuckers on the food network.
I wanted to punch Gina in the babymaker the first few times I saw that show. After that they started to grow on me. :blush:
Glad you guys met up. :cool:
Now we know you're both real, though I always thought AR suspect what with his tales of Che-adventures down Mexico way. :P
Quote from: sbr on August 28, 2012, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 28, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
What, nobody goes to Neely Brothers anymore in Memphis?
I've seen enough of those fuckers on the food network.
I wanted to punch Gina in the babymaker the first few times I saw that show. After that they started to grow on me. :blush:
Now y'all need to get some brown sugar y'all and some salt y'all. Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 28, 2012, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 28, 2012, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 28, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2012, 04:31:23 PM
What, nobody goes to Neely Brothers anymore in Memphis?
I've seen enough of those fuckers on the food network.
I wanted to punch Gina in the babymaker the first few times I saw that show. After that they started to grow on me. :blush:
Now y'all need to get some brown sugar y'all and some salt y'all. Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL Y'ALL.
The one I truly can't stand is Sunny Anderson. She isn't nearly as annoying as the Neely's but every time I saw her I erupted into an unexplainable rage.
Quote from: sbr on August 28, 2012, 04:58:36 PM
Sunny Anderson.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvbQS2.jpg&hash=b44b8f215e30699d39b7c8194f954fe3e2f82a58)
:lol:
I went to some hip (beer-only) bar in Memphis that was a winding path of small rooms upstairs, supposedly a brothel closed in the 50s and left unrestored above the entry floor. We were alone on a Sunday in the late afternoon and some of the rooms were really spooky.
Also went to Gus's which is unequivocally the best fried chicken I've ever had. Ordering 40s of beer for the table was also great, even though I'd first had that novel experience in Little Rock.
The Stax-Volt museum is great if you like the music. They have Isaac Hayes's gold-plated Cadillac on a revolving display. It's in a rough-looking neighborhood (next to a charter school affiliated with the museum or something).
Quote from: Ideologue on August 28, 2012, 12:53:24 AM
Even some liberals are like that. The other day, I off-handedly mentioned (in context, I didn't randomly bring it up) that the CSA was an enemy of all humankind, evil in the same way that Nazis were evil, and that any person involved in the material support of its treason, which is to say every person within it that was not engaged in its overthrow (qualifying that, perhaps, with "free person," was a legitimate target of war. I got some pushback from a bisexual lady Democrat.
The point is, this gutlessness is the worst thing about the modern left.
I suspect you'd have a lot more people defending the Nazis if they had been invaded by Poland and France.
The CSA invaded the Union. Starting with South Carolina.
Ide, your rhetoric will hopefully get less fiery when your living conditions improve. Naturally I don't begrudge you your opinions, but I think even thinking like that makes people unhappy- mostly yourself, I mean. Passion can make your blood sing, but a more chronic radicalism just seems like an embittering agent.
I gather that you'd like a woman, but some sort of inner happiness might be a good first step. I worry about you, just a little, from time to time. :)
Lettow, your rhetoric will hopefully get less fiery when your living conditions improve. Naturally I don't begrudge you your opinions, but I think even thinking like that makes people unhappy- mostly yourself, I mean. Passion can make your blood sing, but a more chronic radicalism just seems like an embittering agent.
I gather that you'd like a woman, but some sort of inner happiness might be a good first step. I worry about you, just a little, from time to time. :)
You took him to Corky's instead of Central? WTF man.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 29, 2012, 01:02:09 AM
Passion can make your blood sing, but a more chronic radicalism just seems like an embittering agent.
This is wisdom.