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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on May 12, 2009, 01:21:27 PM

Title: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Syt on May 12, 2009, 01:21:27 PM
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1476754.php/National_Assembly_approves_internet_cut-off_for_digital_pirates_
QuoteNational Assembly approves internet cut-off for digital pirates
Europe News

May 12, 2009, 16:44 GMT

Paris - The lower house of the French Parliament, the National Assembly, approved a bill Tuesday that would cut off internet access to web surfers who repeatedly download copyrighted music, films or video games without paying.

The bill was passed by a vote of 296 to 233, largely along party lines, with most Socialist Party deputies voting against it.

It was strongly supported by President Nicolas Sarkozy and a broad array of French artists and could set a tough precedent for global attempts to crack down on internet piracy.

The bill was rejected in a first vote in the National Assembly in April because of a parliamentary ploy by the Socialists. But Culture Minister Christine Albanel quickly reintroduced the measure.

The French Senate must approve the bill again before it becomes law. The Senate already approved it by a large majority in October.

The Socialists are now expected to go before the Constitutional Council in an attempt to derail the law. If they fail, it should go into effect as early as autumn. However, internet cut-offs are not likely to be feasible until the beginning of 2010.

Under the 'three strikes' legislation, illegal downloaders are first sent an e-mail warning them of their infraction. They would be given the chance to contest the charge.

A second infraction will provoke a second e-mail as well as a registered letter. Internet cut-off follows a third illicit download within a year.

But the law may create a conflict between Paris and the European Union, since the European Parliament last year approved an amendment to a telecoms bill that outlawed internet cut-offs.

And on May 6 the EU assembly overwhelmingly rejected a compromise reached with EU governments that would have allowed France and other countries to cut off internet access.

Read more: "National Assembly approves internet cut-off for digital pirates - Monsters and Critics" - http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1476754.php/National_Assembly_approves_internet_cut-off_for_digital_pirates_#ixzz0FJkgb7Cq&A
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2009, 01:37:20 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 01:40:55 PM
Quotewith most Socialist Party deputies voting against it.

Socialists love stealing.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 01:46:07 PM
Less Freedom Monkeys on the internet. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Norgy on May 12, 2009, 01:48:28 PM
How will this law be enforced without violating privacy?
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 01:49:38 PM
Quote from: Norgy on May 12, 2009, 01:48:28 PM
How will this law be enforced without violating privacy?

Why would you want to?

Oh, they don't shower. Gotcha.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Norgy on May 12, 2009, 01:51:21 PM
Bork.  :)
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
This is rather silly. In this day and age, the internet is an essential facility. It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:

It's a shame that they don't.

Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:

If somebody consistently does it all the time then yes I do think they should be banned.

I am not exactly sure how France is going to keep somebody from using the internet but hey whatever.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:33:28 PM
I look forward to lolz when a bunch of old grannies are banned from the internet for accidentally downloading copyrighted material, while the hard core pirate are completely unaffected.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:33:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:

If somebody consistently does it all the time then yes I do think they should be banned.

I am not exactly sure how France is going to keep somebody from using the internet but hey whatever.
Anyway, as the article states, this law is contrary to the relevant EU regulation, so it seems like this is just a publicity/political stunt by the more and more unpopular French government, since it is going to be overturned in court.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:35:06 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:33:28 PM
I look forward to lolz when a bunch of old grannies are banned from the internet for accidentally downloading copyrighted material, while the hard core pirate are completely unaffected.

Quoteapproved a bill Tuesday that would cut off internet access to web surfers who repeatedly download copyrighted music, films or video games without paying.

Obviously this would only be used for people who repeatedly are stupid enough to get caught illegally downloading things...who probably deserve far worse just for being morons.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 12, 2009, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:33:28 PM
I look forward to lolz when a bunch of old grannies are banned from the internet for accidentally downloading copyrighted material, while the hard core pirate are completely unaffected.
Old grannies who accidentally download three times in a year?

Fucking Valmy. <_<
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:37:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:35:06 PM

Obviously this would only be used for people who repeatedly are stupid enough to get caught illegally downloading things...who probably deserve far worse just for being morons.

It said 3 illegal downloads in one year in the article.  You could accidentally do that in a few minutes.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:37:10 PM
It said 3 illegal downloads in one year in the article.  You could accidentally do that in a few minutes.

You have to be warned twice before they can do it.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: vinraith on May 12, 2009, 02:41:24 PM
I predict a rash of ISP account stealing in France.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 02:41:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 12, 2009, 02:37:10 PM
It said 3 illegal downloads in one year in the article.  You could accidentally do that in a few minutes.

You have to be warned twice before they can do it.

Will they pre-warn, like on EUOT? :x
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: vinraith on May 12, 2009, 02:41:24 PM
I predict a rash of ISP account stealing in France.

Yeah I think anybody smart enough to illegally download stuff can figure out how to get around this unenforcable penalty.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 01:40:55 PM
Quotewith most Socialist Party deputies voting against it.

Socialists love stealing.
Property is a social construct. I would have voted against the law, too. :P
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
Property is a social construct. I would have voted against the law, too. :P

So are gay rights but you would vote for them :(
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: garbon on May 12, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:53:37 PM
So are gay rights but you would vote for them :(

So are gays. :(
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 12, 2009, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:51:47 PM
Property is a social construct. I would have voted against the law, too. :P

So are gay rights but you would vote for them :(
Precisely. And so are the "traditional family values" and "gender roles". Which is why every law has to be considered on its merits, its proportionality and its long-term consequences, rather than being based on some absolutist paradigm. :)
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 02:59:25 PM
Popery is theft.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 12, 2009, 03:07:42 PM
Just "cutting off" the Internet is not an answer. If they spent as much money on slowly restructuring the Internet so that there were dedicated lines for file transfer vs network communication, I wouldn't have the same misgivings, but cutting off their ability to download is also removing their access to a lot of information that's becoming somewhat essential-

College students are likely suspects for downloads, for example, but nowadays, much of their research needs to be done online; also, undergraduates are far more likely to be required to apply online for chain jobs (at least here in the US, not sure about Frenchyland), which is why I'm also against US measures to cut Internet access to sex offenders (specifically because of lining up a job being a condition of parole).
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 03:10:58 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 12, 2009, 03:07:42 PM
College students are likely suspects for downloads, for example, but nowadays, much of their research needs to be done online;

:rolleyes: Yeah we need more students who hand in Wiki papers.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 12, 2009, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 03:10:58 PM
:rolleyes: Yeah we need more students who hand in Wiki papers.
Not disagreeing with that; I've seen teachers at an accredited 4-year college (that shall remain nameless simply because I don't foresee anyone here enrolling at it) REQUIRE wiki citations. :bleeding:
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 12, 2009, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 03:10:58 PM
:rolleyes: Yeah we need more students who hand in Wiki papers.
Not disagreeing with that; I've seen teachers at an accredited 4-year college (that shall remain nameless simply because I don't foresee anyone here enrolling at it) REQUIRE wiki citations. :bleeding:

:bleeding: The asteroid cannot hit us soon enough.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Sheilbh on May 12, 2009, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:33:54 PM
Anyway, as the article states, this law is contrary to the relevant EU regulation, so it seems like this is just a publicity/political stunt by the more and more unpopular French government, since it is going to be overturned in court.
Don't read too much into the government's unpopularity.  They face as an opposition the only party in Europe that has absolutely no desire to form a government :bleeding:

I hate Sego <_<
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Ed Anger on May 12, 2009, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 02:59:25 PM
Popery is theft.

Marti's posts are theft.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: crazy canuck on May 12, 2009, 03:30:23 PM
More band width for me.  Excellent.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: derspiess on May 12, 2009, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
This is rather silly. In this day and age, the internet is an essential facility. It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:

You can get by fine without the internet.  It's ridiculous to treat it like some basic human right.

Having said that, the law is stupid.
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 12, 2009, 04:01:17 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
This is rather silly. In this day and age, the internet is an essential facility. It's like banning someone who didn't buy a ticket for a bus ride from using public transport.  :huh:

Maybe.

Or maybe its like suspending the drivers license of someone who frequently commits traffic violations.  (don't know about europe but they do that here in Yankistan).
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 04:03:10 PM
I assume that today all criminals who used the internet for their crimes are banned from the internet? Hmmm?
Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: Oexmelin on May 12, 2009, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: Norgy on May 12, 2009, 01:48:28 PM
How will this law be enforced without violating privacy?

That's one of the main concern. The others are: the utter incompetence of the people who have been in charge of the issue (who basically seem unable to actually understand what their law is about...), the incapacity of people sanctionned to actually disprove allegations and the desire to enforce other laws about negationism and hate speech out of the same ISP-and-email spying.

There is a 68 pages thread on the French Village des Fous if some of you are interested in seeing what they thnk about it.

Title: Re: France approves law to cut illegal downloaders off the internet
Post by: DontSayBanana on May 12, 2009, 05:00:53 PM
Another thing is the technology isn't there. Unless France has paid off ICANN to alter their root server so that a national login system is used, they can only do this by gating IP addresses; if someone determined enough wanted to get around it, they'd just need to find another computer at another location to download from.

@Minsky: it's not exactly the same thing; with a suspended driver's license, one can still take public transportation to be self-reliant- however, if the French do public Internet access at libraries the same way we do, it's a safe bet that the network administrators would be pressured into denying those users public internet access as well.

Speaking of Frenchies, where's our boots on the ground? Whatever happened to Zoupa?