This doesn't bode well. <_<
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30648446/
Is nuking the Tribal areas Pakistan's new anti-Taliban strategy?
If you can't keep a rag-tag band of guerillas that believe nuclear bombs are made by desert djinns more than 100 miles away from your capital then you don't deserve to have the bomb.
Not good. The elite should be destroying their arsenal to prevent the barbarians from acquiring it, like the Afrikaners did.
This is just silly.
They should sell it and use the monies to move to brighter shores. Like Lichenstein.
:thumbsup:
Nukes are fine. We have it on good authority that even if the Taliban got nukes, they would never use them, because nobody would be so foolish.
We can count on the rational self interest of all parties, and there is no need to get worked up about any particular group getting nukes.
Excepting the one group who has already proven they lack the requisite self restraint, of course.
Quote from: Berkut on May 12, 2009, 12:50:07 PM
Nukes are fine. We have it on good authority that even if the Taliban got nukes, they would never use them, because nobody would be so foolish.
:lmfao:
Quote from: Berkut on May 12, 2009, 12:50:07 PM
Excepting the one group who has already proven they lack the requisite self restraint, of course.
Amerikkka!
it's odd that using the nukes only counts for "used in battle"... as if the hundreds of nukes that were detonated as tests are somehow "not used".
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 12, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
it's odd that using the nukes only counts for "used in battle"... as if the hundreds of nukes that were detonated as tests are somehow "not used".
You count masturbation as having sex? OK.
How hard would it be to reprogram ICBMs to target Alien warships in low earth orbit?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 04:04:10 PM
How hard would it be to reprogram ICBMs to target Alien warships in low earth orbit?
You don't program ICBMs. They are proud beasts. You cajole, threaten and reason with them.
Perhaps Durwood is correct, and there is something to that Mayan calendar? :huh:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 08:54:04 AM
This doesn't bode well. <_<
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30648446/
Why can't you cut and paste the damn article?
I wanna read it here.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 04:04:10 PM
How hard would it be to reprogram ICBMs to target Alien warships in low earth orbit?
Why do you think the Alien warships are going to be in low orbit?
They are going to hold at their maximum effective range, and nuke our cities one by one until we submit to their rule.
If we don't, then they'll just glass our planet and wait a couple centuries to come back and start mining our resources.
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 05:59:55 PM
Why do you think the Alien warships are going to be in low orbit?
They are going to hold at their maximum effective range, and nuke our cities one by one until we submit to their rule.
If we don't, then they'll just glass our planet and wait a couple centuries to come back and start mining our resources.
What makes you think that aliens would have warships?
Why would aliens use something as inefficient as nuclear weapons? :huh:
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 05:59:55 PM
Why do you think the Alien warships are going to be in low orbit?
They are going to hold at their maximum effective range, and nuke our cities one by one until we submit to their rule.
If we don't, then they'll just glass our planet and wait a couple centuries to come back and start mining our resources.
What makes you think that aliens would have warships?
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2009, 06:12:56 PM
Why would aliens use something as inefficient as nuclear weapons? :huh:
Energy weapons with an output big enough can have the same effect of nukes.
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:20:37 PM
Energy weapons with an output big enough can have the same effect of nukes.
That's nice, so are you going to answer my question?
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2009, 06:22:15 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:20:37 PM
Energy weapons with an output big enough can have the same effect of nukes.
That's nice, so are you going to answer my question?
I thought I did.
When I said nukes I was thinking in nuke-like capabilities, but not exactly nukes.
Who knows what other weapons of mass destruction exists out there and we don't know about them.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2009, 06:12:56 PM
Why would aliens use something as inefficient as nuclear weapons? :huh:
Quickly applying thrust. Large-scale earthmoving on planets.
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 05:59:55 PM
Why do you think the Alien warships are going to be in low orbit?
They are going to hold at their maximum effective range, and nuke our cities one by one until we submit to their rule.
If we don't, then they'll just glass our planet and wait a couple centuries to come back and start mining our resources.
What makes you think that aliens would have warships?
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth
mining would seem pretty low.
Aliens want us to die; we die.
Keeping nukes as a alien defence is not just silly but insane.
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
It's unlikely that a starship would use an energy weapon, especially one that could destroy a city. Wasteful. Inefficient.
Btw, how did alien invasion get involved in this?
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
They would probably use kinetic energy weapons.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth mining would seem pretty low.
Not a bad point. Lifting all that material into space would be a huge waste of resources.
Quote from: Tyr on May 12, 2009, 06:41:43 PM
Aliens want us to die; we die.
Keeping nukes as a alien defence is not just silly but insane.
If it comes down to it, we need the nukes to destroy the planet rather than allow it to be taken.
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth mining would seem pretty low.
Not a bad point. Lifting all that material into space would be a huge waste of resources.
If they came for resources they'd just mine the asteroid belt, and either flatten us to get rid of the competition or sell us shiny space beads.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
They would probably use kinetic energy weapons.
No they wouldn't.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth mining would seem pretty low.
Not a bad point. Lifting all that material into space would be a huge waste of resources.
If they came for resources they'd just mine the asteroid belt, and either flatten us to get rid of the competition or sell us shiny space beads.
We're not competition, and no interstellar species can be interested in commerce.
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
They would probably use kinetic energy weapons.
No they wouldn't.
Why not, rods from God are cheaper then nukes, just as effective and cause no radiation.
Rods from God. :mmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 07:20:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
It was the term Timmay used.
I don't know jack about Aliens.
Maybe a simple exploration ship is so far advanced that have the capability to nuke cities with their single energy weapon.
Technology is a bitch.
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
They would probably use kinetic energy weapons.
No they wouldn't.
Why not, rods from God are cheaper then nukes, just as effective and cause no radiation.
That's true, but they'd never use them.
Neil has touched(?) Aliens, so he knows.
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 12, 2009, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth mining would seem pretty low.
Not a bad point. Lifting all that material into space would be a huge waste of resources.
If they came for resources they'd just mine the asteroid belt, and either flatten us to get rid of the competition or sell us shiny space beads.
We're not competition, and no interstellar species can be interested in commerce.
Why is that?
Trade seems to be a constant in all forms of civilization.
Quote from: Neil on May 12, 2009, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Why would they want to mine the earth? Of all the things an advanced civilization might want with the Earth mining would seem pretty low.
Not a bad point. Lifting all that material into space would be a huge waste of resources.
Maybe they have cheaper ways to lift stuff into orbit.
Space elevators come to mind.
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 12, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
I wonder what a modern destroyer could have done against the entire Armada Invencible.
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Destroyer have armor, right?
Can it just ram and cut in half a 16th century galleon?
We need to send this to the mythbusters.
aliens don't travel by physical means and they are already here. invasion and ... trade are out of the picture. :P
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 10:36:58 PM
Why is that?
Trade seems to be a constant in all forms of civilization.
Because we don't have anything to offer, and because an interstellar civilization will have had to have moved past buying and selling as the organizing principle of their economy. The strictures of interstellar flight demand it.
Quote from: Siege on May 12, 2009, 10:38:04 PM
Maybe they have cheaper ways to lift stuff into orbit.
Space elevators come to mind.
Too slow. Also, there's nothing on Earth that could justify such a monumental effort or expense.
Quote from: Siege on May 13, 2009, 01:11:21 AM
Destroyer have armor, right?
Can it just ram and cut in half a 16th century galleon?
We need to send this to the mythbusters.
I'm sure it could ram and destroy those ships, but it would take damage doing so. It would be more effective to use the deck gun, and then send a Tomahawk to Madrid.
Being alien would mean we had no idea what their motives would be. They would be by defintion "alien".
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:06:18 AM
Being alien would mean we had no idea what their motives would be. They would be by defintion "alien".
Well, we can make some assumptions, based on what we know about them, and what we would have in common.
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:06:18 AM
Being alien would mean we had no idea what their motives would be. They would be by defintion "alien".
Well, we can make some assumptions, based on what we know about them, and what we would have in common.
Look how varied humans can be though in their cultures and motives, an alien may be similar to one, or complete different beyond our frame of reference.
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:06:18 AM
Being alien would mean we had no idea what their motives would be. They would be by defintion "alien".
Well, we can make some assumptions, based on what we know about them, and what we would have in common.
Yeah we can. But since it based on what we know about them which is nothing at all then our assumptions have little validity.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:43:52 AM
Yeah we can. But since it based on what we know about them which is nothing at all then our assumptions have little validity.
We know that they are technically proficient and capable of surviving interstellar transit. That allows us to draw certain conclusions.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 13, 2009, 07:42:13 AM
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:06:18 AM
Being alien would mean we had no idea what their motives would be. They would be by defintion "alien".
Well, we can make some assumptions, based on what we know about them, and what we would have in common.
Look how varied humans can be though in their cultures and motives, an alien may be similar to one, or complete different beyond our frame of reference.
Nothing is beyond my frame of reference, because I use reason.
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2009, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 12, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
it's odd that using the nukes only counts for "used in battle"... as if the hundreds of nukes that were detonated as tests are somehow "not used".
You count masturbation as having sex? OK.
:lol:
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:43:52 AM
Yeah we can. But since it based on what we know about them which is nothing at all then our assumptions have little validity.
We know that they are technically proficient and capable of surviving interstellar transit. That allows us to draw certain conclusions.
They could have simply stolen someone elses techonology. They could be intergalactic highjackers like in "High Crusade".
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 08:50:59 AM
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 07:51:22 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2009, 07:43:52 AM
Yeah we can. But since it based on what we know about them which is nothing at all then our assumptions have little validity.
We know that they are technically proficient and capable of surviving interstellar transit. That allows us to draw certain conclusions.
They could have simply stolen someone elses techonology. They could be intergalactic highjackers like in "High Crusade".
Then they'd use it to destroy themselves. If people are socially and psychologically unprepared, decades or more in interstellar space can be devastating.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 12, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Not until long after the Armada ran out of ships!
Quote from: grumbler on May 13, 2009, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 12, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Not until long after the Armada ran out of ships!
One would imagine so. Actually, I wonder what the effects would be of a single modern 5" shell hit on an old-style ship.
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 13, 2009, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 12, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Not until long after the Armada ran out of ships!
One would imagine so. Actually, I wonder what the effects would be of a single modern 5" shell hit on an old-style ship.
A Soviet galleon? It would just shrug it off thanks to its vastly superior armor.
Quote from: Neil on May 13, 2009, 01:04:22 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 13, 2009, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 12, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
It would probably run out of ammunition.
Not until long after the Armada ran out of ships!
One would imagine so. Actually, I wonder what the effects would be of a single modern 5" shell hit on an old-style ship.
Well, I think the opening days of the ACW pretty much put to rest the idea of the wooden navy in the time of the rifled shell, and those things were surely not particualrly powerful compared to a modern shell.
But then, 5" isn't THAT big - I wonder how it compares to a ACW era naval rifle in size?
Of course, at the range we are talking about, if 1 doesn't do the trick, no problem, pump in a couple more.
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2009, 01:49:31 PM
But then, 5" isn't THAT big - I wonder how it compares to a ACW era naval rifle in size?
The US used Parrott heavy artillery rifles in 60, 100 and 150-pound sizes, and they bored 5.3, 6.4 and 8 inches. There were also some smaller ones. Merrimack used 6 and 7 inch rifles against Monitor.
QuoteWell, I think the opening days of the ACW pretty much put to rest the idea of the wooden navy in the time of the rifled shell, and those things were surely not particualrly powerful compared to a modern shell.
I'd say that it had already been done at Sinope, eight years earlier. The American navies were a bit behind the curve.