I have seen this many times before (and not talking about using offensive words like "cretin" or "retard") - someone whose intellectual capacities are questioned treats this as a huge insult/libel, whereas talking (using polite, non-offensive words) about someone else being emotional, or ugly, or not fit, or having a lot of other deficiencies is usually not treated as that offensive.
Is this because we are unable to separate our intellect from the sense of self?
I don't know.
I never get insulted when you question my intellectual capacity.
I am the first to recognize I am not very intelligent.
As a matter of fact, I am breathing and posting this today because I am not very smart.
If I were I would have been feeding the worms for a long time already.
Many people have a bizarre idea that their opinions and statements automatically carry some weight. Many people have average intellects but still think that what they say are relevant or that their understanding of the world is the least bit interesting to extremely intelligent persons.
Why? Well... For whatever reason they are uncomfortable with accepting their lot of quietly doing their lifting and fetching and not bothering their betters with their inane drivel.
My guess is that accepting intellectual irrelevance carries too high a price to be advantageous to the individual. Many other deficiencies probably differ in this respect.
Slight tangent: my impression is that many people have no personal relationship with greatness. Ie they don't really see that there are people who have abilities that make their own uninteresting. They are themselves average and hang out with average people and therefore think that the world of mediocrity is all there is.
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 02:57:34 AM
I have seen this many times before (and not talking about using offensive words like "cretin" or "retard") - someone whose intellectual capacities are questioned treats this as a huge insult/libel, whereas talking (using polite, non-offensive words) about someone else being emotional, or ugly, or not fit, or having a lot of other deficiencies is usually not treated as that offensive.
Is this because we are unable to separate our intellect from the sense of self?
Give us an example of what you are talking about.
Uh, calling somebody fat or ugly or overly emotional is also an insult...
I think all people are limited by whatever intelligence level they posses.
Meaning they cannot percieve, understand, or accept, that other people are smarter than they are.
They can accept that brilliance of a mathematical genious, for example, but are quick to point out how little "street smarts" and "common sense" he have.
However they got no problem recognizing people less intelligent than they are.
I don't know. It is a complex issue.
I think we are all victims of our own physical bodies.
Our brains can only go so far.
Maybe it is more important to be a good man, obey your people's laws, love your woman, raise your children right, and serve your country.
Maybe is not so bad to be a simple kind of man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEXPuluL9U
I think you are pretty close to the truth there Siege :cool:
It kind of blows your cover though, better have a few Coors lites and post some gibberish if you want us to think you are thick :P
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 05, 2012, 03:51:31 AM
I think you are pretty close to the truth there Siege :cool:
It kind of blows your cover though, better have a few Coors lites and post some gibberish if you want us to think you are thick :P
I'm drinking Miller Lite and vodka with orange juice.
And the baby is crying upstairs, but my wife gave me off today.
I haven't drank since Baby Siege was born on 3rd July.
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 03:45:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paUGhVQfBpw
Fixed that link for you.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 05, 2012, 04:30:19 AM
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 03:45:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paUGhVQfBpw
Fixed that link for you.
Blows.
I ussually prefer covers over originals.
Unless we are talking of Sweet Home Alabama and Free Bird.
Yeah, blows. We're talking about Shinedown, right?
(they're not really that bad, but I can't stand that cover for some reason...fucking grating)
E: Then again, I'll have to say it's better than the Deftones cover.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 05, 2012, 04:47:59 AM
Yeah, blows. We're talking about Shinedown, right?
(they're not really that bad, but I can't stand that cover for some reason...fucking grating)
Fuck no. The Shinedown version is the better version.
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 04:51:17 AM
Fuck no. The Shinedown version is the better version.
Sure! If you're deaf and can't hear it anyway. "That one!"
Shit, the version with Johnny singing is better. Fake Ronnie > Shinebox :cool:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 05, 2012, 04:52:07 AM
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 04:51:17 AM
Fuck no. The Shinedown version is the better version.
Sure! If you're deaf and can't hear it anyway. "That one!"
Shit, even the version with Johnny singing is better.
Are you going to seriously compare the vocals of Brent Smith to Johnny Van Zant? Plz.
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 04:57:06 AM
Are you going to seriously compare the vocals of Brent Smith to Johnny Van Zant? Plz.
Psh. Johnny van Zant has done an admirable job of impersonating his brother for the last....what....30 years now? Skynyrd has been with Johnny longer than Ronnie, but w/e.
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 03:14:57 AM
I don't know.
I never get insulted when you question my intellectual capacity.
I am the first to recognize I am not very intelligent.
As a matter of fact, I am breathing and posting this today because I am not very smart.
If I were I would have been feeding the worms for a long time already.
I was actually going to refer to you in my OP, since you are probably the only person I know who admits that - which is respectable.
Siege understates himself. Dumb soldiers on the front line get shot. The problem is that most of Siege's mental faculties are devoted to his job. It keeps him alive, but it makes him someone stubborn and resistant to new thought. Perhaps it's to the best. People who spend to much time over thinking that kind of work go crazy.
Seriously Mart, what is the situation that came up.
Someone called Mart stupid and he got upset. The usual.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 05, 2012, 03:51:31 AM
I think you are pretty close to the truth there Siege :cool:
You think?
I for one not only realize there are smarter people around, I can remember when _I_ was smarter than I am now. I seem to have lost the edge with age (or maybe with illness). Especially when it comes to focus.
Hey look, yet another attention whore thread by Marty attempting to validate why he prances through life like an asshole to others! Imagine that!
Because you're so fucking stupid.
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 04:29:18 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 05, 2012, 03:51:31 AM
I think you are pretty close to the truth there Siege :cool:
It kind of blows your cover though, better have a few Coors lites and post some gibberish if you want us to think you are thick :P
I'm drinking Miller Lite and vodka with orange juice.
And the baby is crying upstairs, but my wife gave me off today.
I haven't drank since Baby Siege was born on 3rd July.
Congratulations. :cheers:
Why no thread about the happy occasion ?
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 02:57:34 AM
I have seen this many times before (and not talking about using offensive words like "cretin" or "retard") - someone whose intellectual capacities are questioned treats this as a huge insult/libel, whereas talking (using polite, non-offensive words) about someone else being emotional, or ugly, or not fit, or having a lot of other deficiencies is usually not treated as that offensive.
Is this because we are unable to separate our intellect from the sense of self?
A general answer, not directed at any personal case:
Some extreme cases exempted, most people have equivalent IQs. Ones (percieved and erroneous) idea regarding "intelligence" often does not come from an higher IQ, but rather from higher knowledge - often general knowledge - achieved through better education.
That education was often achieved because one's parents were able to afford a better school/teachers than the guy one thinks is dumber (in fact, just more ignorant).
So, when one usually points out that the other might be less intelligent, what he is REALLY saying is:
"You come from a poorer background than me, and my daddy paid me a higher education; Therefore, I am of higher birth than you and thus know more general stuff than you do. Bow to me, peasant!".
Which makes them a douche.
Many people have no problem in admitting they aren't that smart, or only average. Such people are less likely to make their living off their brain, however, and thus probably have less of their self-worth tied up in their perceived intelligence.
Also, many of us (as evidenced in this thread) tend to value others on the basis of their intelligence - so if your peers/society holds that your worth as a human being is linked to your intellect, someone denigrating that intellect is rather damaging.
I imagine in warrior-societies, calling another person a "coward" would be a far more grievous insult than saying he wasn't bright, but that is just speculation on my part.
Marty is hillarious :lol:
In Polish society, is it okay to call someone unfit/ugly/whatever? And it puzzles him that people are offended by being called less intelligent than himself?
God damn.
I have some house plants that would be offended to be called less intelligent than Marti.
Quote from: Tamas on August 05, 2012, 09:48:50 AM
Marty is hillarious :lol:
In Polish society, is it okay to call someone unfit/ugly/whatever? And it puzzles him that people are offended by being called less intelligent than himself?
God damn.
I guess you are not very smart.
Of course any unwarranted or out of context criticism of another person can be offensive, but when done in the appropriate context and in a way that does not use insulting words, it's acceptable. It is quite acceptable, for example, for my personal trainer to tell me that I am not very fit and need to train more; or for a stylist or a plastic surgeon to tell a client that his or her looks are not perfect and what he or she needs to change about it - on the other hand, telling someone their intellect is lacking would be almost always perceived as an insult.
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 05, 2012, 08:45:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 02:57:34 AM
I have seen this many times before (and not talking about using offensive words like "cretin" or "retard") - someone whose intellectual capacities are questioned treats this as a huge insult/libel, whereas talking (using polite, non-offensive words) about someone else being emotional, or ugly, or not fit, or having a lot of other deficiencies is usually not treated as that offensive.
Is this because we are unable to separate our intellect from the sense of self?
A general answer, not directed at any personal case:
Some extreme cases exempted, most people have equivalent IQs. Ones (percieved and erroneous) idea regarding "intelligence" often does not come from an higher IQ, but rather from higher knowledge - often general knowledge - achieved through better education.
That education was often achieved because one's parents were able to afford a better school/teachers than the guy one thinks is dumber (in fact, just more ignorant).
So, when one usually points out that the other might be less intelligent, what he is REALLY saying is:
"You come from a poorer background than me, and my daddy paid me a higher education; Therefore, I am of higher birth than you and thus know more general stuff than you do. Bow to me, peasant!".
Which makes them a douche.
I disagree. I have met plenty of rather unintelligent people coming from privileged backgrounds and vice versa.
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 05, 2012, 09:48:50 AM
Marty is hillarious :lol:
In Polish society, is it okay to call someone unfit/ugly/whatever? And it puzzles him that people are offended by being called less intelligent than himself?
God damn.
I guess you are not very smart.
Of course any unwarranted or out of context criticism of another person can be offensive, but when done in the appropriate context and in a way that does not use insulting words, it's acceptable. It is quite acceptable, for example, for my personal trainer to tell me that I am not very fit and need to train more; or for a stylist or a plastic surgeon to tell a client that his or her looks are not perfect and what he or she needs to change about it - on the other hand, telling someone their intellect is lacking would be almost always perceived as an insult.
yeah great. Those are two very specific situations, which only exist for the specific reason of telling the god-honest truth about someone. It is not the "people in general" scenario you described.
I agree with Martim.
There are plenty of guys that us Languish-tards might think of as dumb rednecks, but they might know a car engine inside-out, or be able to disassemble/reassemble a transmission...while we'd hold a monkey wrench with a stupid look on our face.
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 05, 2012, 09:48:50 AM
Marty is hillarious :lol:
In Polish society, is it okay to call someone unfit/ugly/whatever? And it puzzles him that people are offended by being called less intelligent than himself?
God damn.
I guess you are not very smart.
Of course any unwarranted or out of context criticism of another person can be offensive, but when done in the appropriate context and in a way that does not use insulting words, it's acceptable. It is quite acceptable, for example, for my personal trainer to tell me that I am not very fit and need to train more; or for a stylist or a plastic surgeon to tell a client that his or her looks are not perfect and what he or she needs to change about it - on the other hand, telling someone their intellect is lacking would be almost always perceived as an insult.
One reason may be that intelligence is largely immutable. If you're stupid, it's usually terminal.
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2012, 10:43:13 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 05, 2012, 10:09:35 AM
I guess you are not very smart.
Of course any unwarranted or out of context criticism of another person can be offensive, but when done in the appropriate context and in a way that does not use insulting words, it's acceptable. It is quite acceptable, for example, for my personal trainer to tell me that I am not very fit and need to train more; or for a stylist or a plastic surgeon to tell a client that his or her looks are not perfect and what he or she needs to change about it - on the other hand, telling someone their intellect is lacking would be almost always perceived as an insult.
One reason may be that intelligence is largely immutable. If you're stupid, it's usually terminal.
Marti analogy = FAIL, as usual.
You are correct. The proper analogy for Marti's first two cases is the boss telling an employee that he or she is not educated or trained well enough for the promotion.
Pointing out anyones short comings is considered rude. I don't see intellect as being unique there. I can call someone short, fat, ugly, sloppy, dumb and it is all insulting.
Human societies put a great emphasis on intelligence. To be told you "ain't got it" is going to be a cause for concern.
What I see in people around me is not so much a lack of intellect, but a failure to use what they have efficiently. Arrogance in that they believe they already have everything they need to know. Those who humble themselves and seek out knowledge are the people who generally become viewed as 'intelligent'.
That isn't to say there isn't a raw intelligence in that equation. It is more of a matter of ignorance than raw intelligence though.
I would say, and I say this with love, that Martinus' problem is not that he is dumb, but that he is arrogant and looks down on other people rather than trying to learn from what they tell them. I am not the most intelligent person in the world, nor am I the dumbest, but my successes multiplied when I learned to shut up and listen to what people were saying to me.
Quote from: Jaron on August 05, 2012, 11:09:17 AM
I would say, and I say this with love, that Martinus' problem is not that he is dumb, but that he is arrogant and looks down on other people rather than trying to learn from what they tell them. I am not the most intelligent person in the world, nor am I the dumbest, but my successes multiplied when I learned to shut up and listen to what people were saying to me.
How many Jumbo Jacks can you make a minute these days?
Quote from: The Brain on August 05, 2012, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on August 05, 2012, 11:09:17 AM
I would say, and I say this with love, that Martinus' problem is not that he is dumb, but that he is arrogant and looks down on other people rather than trying to learn from what they tell them. I am not the most intelligent person in the world, nor am I the dumbest, but my successes multiplied when I learned to shut up and listen to what people were saying to me.
How many Jumbo Jacks can you make a minute these days?
Sir, where I live..Jack in the Box does not even exist.
Quote from: Jaron on August 05, 2012, 11:15:19 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 05, 2012, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Jaron on August 05, 2012, 11:09:17 AM
I would say, and I say this with love, that Martinus' problem is not that he is dumb, but that he is arrogant and looks down on other people rather than trying to learn from what they tell them. I am not the most intelligent person in the world, nor am I the dumbest, but my successes multiplied when I learned to shut up and listen to what people were saying to me.
How many Jumbo Jacks can you make a minute these days?
Sir, where I live..Jack in the Box does not even exist.
:(
Looks like Mormonism has done Jaron a world of good. :)
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 05, 2012, 08:45:52 AM
"You come from a poorer background than me, and my daddy paid me a higher education; Therefore, I am of higher birth than you and thus know more general stuff than you do. Bow to me, peasant!".
Wait I thought education was free for all in socialist Euro land. What happened? :(
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2012, 11:45:22 AM
Wait I thought education was free for all in socialist Euro land. What happened? :(
It is free in public schools/universities, but...
1) Nothing prevents the rich from sending their kids to Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, etc...
2) The number of places in public universities is rather limited, and often the rich kids (that could concentrate better in their studies than the poor, getting better books and off-school tutors) occupy most of them. That leaves the poorer kids with either the option to give up higher education or be student workers in order to pay for a degree in a private university. This is a problem the country is yet to solve.
(over here, private universities are often less regarded than public ones)
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 05, 2012, 10:26:37 AM
I agree with Martim.
There are plenty of guys that us Languish-tards might think of as dumb rednecks, but they might know a car engine inside-out, or be able to disassemble/reassemble a transmission...while we'd hold a monkey wrench with a stupid look on our face.
Speak for yourself, I never have insulted Dguller intellect.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 05, 2012, 04:58:45 AM
Quote from: Siege on August 05, 2012, 04:57:06 AM
Are you going to seriously compare the vocals of Brent Smith to Johnny Van Zant? Plz.
Psh. Johnny van Zant has done an admirable job of impersonating his brother for the last....what....30 years now? Skynyrd has been with Johnny longer than Ronnie, but w/e.
More like 25 years. The plane crash was in 1977, but it was a decade before the band
reunited with Johnny.
Quote from: Iormlund
I for one not only realize there are smarter people around, I can remember when _I_ was smarter than I am now. I seem to have lost the edge with age (or maybe with illness). Especially when it comes to focus.
I can kind of agree with that. I think I'm just as smart as I ever was, but I don't seem to able to focus as well as I used to. OTOH, I'm less ignorant than I used to be--that is to say, I know things now that I didn't know 10, 20, 30 years ago.
Quote from: Martim Silva on August 05, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
1) Nothing prevents the rich from sending their kids to Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, etc...
Yeah but that is not Marty. Or anybody on this board. Garbon went to Stanford but not because of his fantastically rich daddy.
Quote(over here, private universities are often less regarded than public ones)
Over here Public Universities and Private ones are not less or more regarded on that basis. Generally the truly horrible ones tend to be private but also alot of the best ones are private as well.
It seems unlikely to me that Harvard or similar makes you intelligent.
Quote from: The Brain on August 05, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
It seems unlikely to me that Harvard or similar makes you intelligent.
:yes: The smartest guy I ever met was smarter than anyone who ever went to Harvard.
Quote from: grumbler on August 05, 2012, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 05, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
It seems unlikely to me that Harvard or similar makes you intelligent.
:yes: The smartest guy I ever met was smarter than anyone who ever went to Harvard.
Let me guess, you met this guy looking in a mirror?
Quote from: grumbler on August 05, 2012, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 05, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
It seems unlikely to me that Harvard or similar makes you intelligent.
:yes: The smartest guy I ever met was smarter than anyone who ever went to Harvard.
:) Thank you.
Yi went to Harvard, Garbo to Stanford.
I rest my case.
I thought Yi went to Georgetown.
Quote from: katmai on August 05, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
Yi went to Harvard, Garbo to Stanford.
I rest my case.
Yi is a graduate from a Jesuit institution. Despite his unfortunate amnesia regarding the concepts of Social Justice taught by the soldiers of Holy Mother Church, he is still better than than any Ivy Leaquetards.
Speaking of social justice, good article in the NYT Sunday Magazine on Occupy Oakland you might want to check out. Anarchists in the streets and hippies in City Hall.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 06:02:46 PM
Speaking of social justice, good article in the NYT Sunday Magazine on Occupy Oakland you might want to check out. Anarchists in the streets and hippies in City Hall.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarissamarzano.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fgump2.jpg&hash=a970ce5ee95f0892708e71eb15920b846e705989)
"Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your Black Panther party"
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
I don't think it ever really wanted to.
Quote from: katmai on August 05, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
Yi went to Harvard, Garbo to Stanford.
I rest my case.
I'm bloody brilliant! :angry:
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
They've caught a number of breaks. Terminus of the transcontinental railroad, large scale armaments manufacturing during WWII.
You can't become a truly epic crap city unless you had it good at one point.
Because it's insulting? :mellow:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
They've caught a number of breaks. Terminus of the transcontinental railroad, large scale armaments manufacturing during WWII.
You can't become a truly epic crap city unless you had it good at one point.
I didn't realize that I was going to have specify that I meant in these recent years. :P
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
They've caught a number of breaks. Terminus of the transcontinental railroad, large scale armaments manufacturing during WWII.
You can't become a truly epic crap city unless you had it good at one point.
I didn't realize that I was going to have specify that I meant in these recent years. :P
Ah, so that's the never you were referring to. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
Poor Oakland. It can never catch a break.
They've caught a number of breaks. Terminus of the transcontinental railroad, large scale armaments manufacturing during WWII.
You can't become a truly epic crap city unless you had it good at one point.
I didn't realize that I was going to have specify that I meant in these recent years. :P
Ah, so that's the never you were referring to. :)
Well sure. Like one could say "I never have sex anymore".
Anyway, was your weekend alright? :unsure:
Quote from: Maximus on August 05, 2012, 05:47:59 PM
I thought Yi went to Georgetown.
He did and then he went North. :smarty:
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: katmai on August 05, 2012, 05:15:24 PM
Yi went to Harvard, Garbo to Stanford.
I rest my case.
I'm bloody brilliant! :angry:
Never said you weren't
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 06:59:58 PM
Well sure. Like one could say "I never have sex anymore".
It's virtually identical except for the word anymore.
QuoteAnyway, was your weekend alright? :unsure:
Reasonable. How was yours?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 07:16:42 PM
It's virtually identical except for the word anymore.
So I'm not sure why picked this particular nit to pick at.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 07:16:42 PM
Reasonable. How was yours?
Probably couldn't have been better though I could have done with cooler outdoor temps.
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
So I'm not sure why picked this particular nit to pick at.
Why does it have to be a nitpick and not a further development of the point?
Your people are never going to amount to anything until you get that chip off your shoulder.
Because I explained myself and you gave me back that smug little response? ;)
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 07:28:24 PM
Because I explained myself and you gave me back that smug little response? ;)
My smug response followed your explosion of defensive black rage.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 05, 2012, 07:30:56 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 05, 2012, 07:28:24 PM
Because I explained myself and you gave me back that smug little response? ;)
My smug response followed your explosion of defensive black rage.
Oooh! Yi throws down the race card! Can garbo trump it? Stay tuned!