http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jMKmRMAKyHxerSCI6Jsh3dSxi4Ug?docId=CNG.9945fb93033ef5c0f101f42ee8c074af.291
QuoteUS couple denied wedding because they were black
(AFP) – 10 hours ago
WASHINGTON — A Mississippi couple got the shock of their lives when the pastor at the church they attended told them the wedding they planned could not be held there because they are black, ABC television reported.
Pastor Stan Weatherford told the network there had never been a wedding for blacks at the First Baptist Church in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, since it was opened in 1883.
He said some of the white congregarion so virulently opposed the wedding of Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson, who are black, that they threatened to have him fired.
Weatherford, a pastor who is white, offered to wed the Wilsons down the road at a mostly black church, he told the network.
"My 9-year-old was going to the church with us. How would you say to your 9-year-old daughter, 'We cannot get married here because, guess what sweetie, we're black,'" Charles Wilson told ABC's affiliate WAPT-TV.
The would-be groom told WAPT that the couple intended to join the church as members after their wedding, which was planned for July 20. Until they got the bad news that forced them to move their ceremony to another church where it was held July 21.
Locals voiced shock at the pastor's move.
"That church was their home," said local resident Theresa Norwood, 48. "What would Jesus have done? He would have married them, without a doubt, because it's the right thing to do. We're all God's children," she said.
Racism alive andwell in Mississippi:
Was this ever in doubt? :huh:
Te'Andrea? Sounds to me like it was justified.
I'm finding myself in agreement with Neil a lot lately. Should I be worried? :unsure:
means you need to up your meds dosage.
Oh that poor church. It is now going to reasonably get fucked.
QuoteTe'Andrea
Relation of yours, garbon?
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 10:19:58 AM
Oh that poor church. It is now going to reasonably get fucked.
Never took you for the religious type.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 10:19:58 AM
Oh that poor church. It is now going to reasonably get fucked.
Yeah I kinda feel sorry for them. I think we are reaching the point, when it comes to equality, when individuals and private organizations could actually use some freedom in being bigoted. Besides, I'm pretty sure that church would have also refused to marry two guys, so why make a big fuss out of this particular case of discrimination?
Quote from: Martinus on July 29, 2012, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 10:19:58 AM
Oh that poor church. It is now going to reasonably get fucked.
Yeah I kinda feel sorry for them. I think we are reaching the point, when it comes to equality, when individuals and private organizations could actually use some freedom in being bigoted. Besides, I'm pretty sure that church would have also refused to marry two guys, so why make a big fuss out of this particular case of discrimination?
Outrage sells.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 11:20:15 AM
QuoteTe'Andrea
Relation of yours, garbon?
<_<
Though I'd say no as that is nowhere near as hard to pronounce as Meo'shay.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2012, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 10:19:58 AM
Oh that poor church. It is now going to reasonably get fucked.
Never took you for the religious type.
I'm not. :huh:
It sounds like the pastor was just trying to avoid conflict and drama for the black couples wedding. He sounds like a good man.
Quote from: Martinus on July 29, 2012, 12:24:06 PM
Yeah I kinda feel sorry for them. I think we are reaching the point, when it comes to equality, when individuals and private organizations could actually use some freedom in being bigoted. Besides, I'm pretty sure that church would have also refused to marry two guys, so why make a big fuss out of this particular case of discrimination?
Because everyone generally agrees that racism is a problem. That isn't the same for homophobia (yet).
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 11:20:15 AM
QuoteTe'Andrea
Relation of yours, garbon?
<_<
Though I'd say no as that is nowhere near as hard to pronounce as Meo'shay.
-_-
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 29, 2012, 12:24:06 PM
Yeah I kinda feel sorry for them. I think we are reaching the point, when it comes to equality, when individuals and private organizations could actually use some freedom in being bigoted. Besides, I'm pretty sure that church would have also refused to marry two guys, so why make a big fuss out of this particular case of discrimination?
Because everyone generally agrees that racism is a problem. That isn't the same for homophobia (yet).
Not to mention that in Mississippi, if the church had refused to marry a gay couple, they would merely be obeying the law.
Also refusing to marry gays can be justified on religious grounds. I can't think of any religious justification for refusing to marry a black couple.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 29, 2012, 08:07:42 PM
Also refusing to marry gays can be justified on religious grounds. I can't think of any religious justification for refusing to marry a black couple.
Don't Mormons have some sort of religious doctrine about how blacks aren't actually people, or they did at some point?
They are only 3/5th's people.
That means 6 black men have to marry 10 white women, right?
Quote from: PDH on July 29, 2012, 08:45:06 PM
That means 6 black men have to marry 10 white women, right?
Not in the new south I envision. Squee.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 29, 2012, 08:07:42 PM
Also refusing to marry gays can be justified on religious grounds. I can't think of any religious justification for refusing to marry a black couple.
You're kidding, right? Plenty of people opposed it on religious grounds before and during the civil rights era.
Anyway, I learned today that the Little Rock High School is now one of the best in Arkansas. So there's hope for them yet.
Quote from: Neil on July 29, 2012, 08:09:24 PM
Don't Mormons have some sort of religious doctrine about how blacks aren't actually people, or they did at some point?
We've had a few threads on this very topic. :sleep:
Huh, you guys realize that it's not illegal for a Church to engage in race discrimination, right? Things like this are a big exception to the civil rights laws, no one is saying the Church did anything it wasn't allowed to do...they are allowed to be bigoted.
What's weird is at least if you believe what the Pastor has said, he wanted to do the wedding ceremony but was told he'd be fired if he did. I think he should've just done the ceremony and then when the Church fired him he'd be a celebrity for standing up for equality and all kinds of other rainbow type things and he'd be in hot demand at churches with far larger congregations and big salaries for pastors.
He's a minister, so chances are good that he's stupid.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 08:52:08 PM
he'd be a celebrity for standing up for equality and all kinds of other rainbow type things
:lol:
Quote from: Faeelin on July 29, 2012, 08:49:10 PM
You're kidding, right? Plenty of people opposed it on religious grounds before and during the civil rights era.
To black people getting married?
Protestants are weird like that.
Quote from: Caliga on July 29, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
He's a minister, so chances are good that he's stupid.
That's why I like Priests, if anything they're well educated...and in a real educational system. A lot of Protestant "ministers" in America get their undergraduate degree from unaccredited bible colleges that basically give degrees away like candy, then they get a series of masters and doctoral degrees from degree mills that specialize in getting tards certified to be Protestant bible thumbing preachers.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 29, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
To black people getting married?
Apologies, I misunderstood you and the post; I thought it was an interracial couple.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 08:54:41 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 08:52:08 PM
he'd be a celebrity for standing up for equality and all kinds of other rainbow type things
:lol:
:lol:
You've taken the lead in the avatar contest.
Dammit.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
That's why I like Priests, if anything they're well educated...and in a real educational system. A lot of Protestant "ministers" in America get their undergraduate degree from unaccredited bible colleges that basically give degrees away like candy, then they get a series of masters and doctoral degrees from degree mills that specialize in getting tards certified to be Protestant bible thumbing preachers.
Yeah, the minister and my mother in law's Southern Baptist church got his "doctorate" and alot of people call him "Dr. Curry" now (prior to that, he was universally known as "Brother Tom"). I prefer to call him "Brother Asshole". :)
Yeah, while you can still get a real doctorate in divinity or theology from a real university, most protestant ministers seem to get them from degree mills.
I think most Protestant seminaries you need a four year degree, which usually at least was at an actual school (albeit an unaccredited bible college)--but the seminaries where a lot of these guys get their "doctorates" are little more than correspondence colleges or even just scam shops where you pay cash and get a degree in the mail.
To be fair to Brother Asshole, I think he did get his doctor of divinity from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (which is here in Louisville). I don't know how it compares to other colleges, but it's certainly not a degree mill.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Yeah, while you can still get a real doctorate in divinity or theology from a real university, most protestant ministers seem to get them from degree mills.
I think most Protestant seminaries you need a four year degree, which usually at least was at an actual school (albeit an unaccredited bible college)--but the seminaries where a lot of these guys get their "doctorates" are little more than correspondence colleges or even just scam shops where you pay cash and get a degree in the mail.
Growing up in Woodlawn in the 1970s we had a family that lived down the street, they used their basement for their church, "The Church Of What's Happening Now".
Every corner Baptistard and his brother usually get their shit from correspondence schools advertised on the back of matchbooks by Sally Struthers. DEGREES AVAILABLE IN TV/VCR REPAIR ELECTRICIAN VETERINARIAN ASSISTANT BAPTIST MINISTER!
The Catholic Church may have its issues, but at least its priests are fucking professionally educated on a level rarely seen in other religions. 'Cept the Jews, they have their own thing going.
Yeah...the "official" seminaries associated with the big denominations are usually legit. I know the SBC has one, there's a United Methodist seminary that is really respected too.
At the same time you can get a Doctorate in Divinity from a correspondence college too.
If you want some hot repressed female baptists, I recommend Cedarville University. Bring beer.
Quote from: Faeelin on July 29, 2012, 09:03:16 PM
Apologies, I misunderstood you and the post; I thought it was an interracial couple.
Actually after seeing this report on TV I thought the dude was white and it was an interracial couple but I guess he is just a light skinned black guy. I know some people in the South still feel squicky about interracial marriage so I thought that was the deal.
Quote from: Faeelin on July 29, 2012, 08:49:10 PM
Anyway, I learned today that the Little Rock High School is now one of the best in Arkansas. So there's hope for them yet.
It was at the time I think. That was why they wanted to integrate it, it was the fancy school in the state. Actually other schools in Arkansas were already integrated which was why people thought it would be a good test case.
Quote from: Caliga on July 29, 2012, 09:22:15 PM
To be fair to Brother Asshole, I think he did get his doctor of divinity from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (which is here in Louisville). I don't know how it compares to other colleges, but it's certainly not a degree mill.
There's a few big time institutions of higher education like that for that sort of thing, but for every SBTS grad there's a dozen snake handlers getting their shit from Uncle Scooter's Theological University & Bait Shop.
Quote from: dps on July 29, 2012, 07:31:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2012, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 29, 2012, 12:24:06 PM
Yeah I kinda feel sorry for them. I think we are reaching the point, when it comes to equality, when individuals and private organizations could actually use some freedom in being bigoted. Besides, I'm pretty sure that church would have also refused to marry two guys, so why make a big fuss out of this particular case of discrimination?
Because everyone generally agrees that racism is a problem. That isn't the same for homophobia (yet).
Not to mention that in Mississippi, if the church had refused to marry a gay couple, they would merely be obeying the law.
I think you failed to get my point.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 29, 2012, 08:07:42 PM
Also refusing to marry gays can be justified on religious grounds. I can't think of any religious justification for refusing to marry a black couple.
Everything everywhere can be justified on religious grounds (and, in fact, mixed marriages bans for example were). There is a simple reason for it: religion is a pile of cooky bullshit.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Caliga on July 29, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
He's a minister, so chances are good that he's stupid.
That's why I like Priests, if anything they're well educated...and in a real educational system. A lot of Protestant "ministers" in America get their undergraduate degree from unaccredited bible colleges that basically give degrees away like candy, then they get a series of masters and doctoral degrees from degree mills that specialize in getting tards certified to be Protestant bible thumbing preachers.
I like Priests too, but they are too squishy.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Yeah, while you can still get a real doctorate in divinity or theology from a real university
It always seemed funny to me that you can get a PhD in something that's completely invented and utter bollocks. But then again the same goes for sociology.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 09:30:44 PMThe Catholic Church may have its issues, but at least its priests are fucking professionally educated on a level rarely seen in other religions.
Not in Poland, they aren't. And I think this is why you guys do not get my hatred of Catholicism - in protestant countries, Catholicism is an intellectual religion, with fairly good education. In Poland it is a popular religion, with priests being recruited mainly from rural social climbers. All you have to do is hate Jews and like to fiddle with kids, and you are good to go.
Incidentally, I meant to ask Sheilbh about it - I think there are now plenty of Polish priests being relocated to the UK, to help prevent the "secularisation" - do they also preach to the general populace or just the Polish immigrants? If the former, how they are doing?
Why aren't you in then?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 12:58:23 AM
Why aren't you in then?
My boyfriend is Jewish and he is 25. :secret:
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
I thought the priestly standards were pretty universal in the catholic church, education wise. What does a priest need to do to become a priest in poland?
Quote from: HVC on July 30, 2012, 01:22:57 AM
I thought the priestly standards were pretty universal in the catholic church, education wise. What does a priest need to do to become a priest in poland?
Ok, I typed two snarky replies before posting this:
Polish priests need to do the same in Poland to become priests as they do in any other place: graduate from a local Catholic seminar run by the local Catholic church, and then take the vows. Please read what I wrote and then read what you wrote again and realize why your post seems to be based on rather naive assumptions.
Hint: The education of doctors from the UK and from Bangladesh is not necessarily the same even if they both need to graduate from a medical school.
Well, not every Polish school is bad as the law schools there.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 02:40:27 AM
Quote from: HVC on July 30, 2012, 01:22:57 AM
I thought the priestly standards were pretty universal in the catholic church, education wise. What does a priest need to do to become a priest in poland?
Ok, I typed two snarky replies before posting this:
Polish priests need to do the same in Poland to become priests as they do in any other place: graduate from a local Catholic seminar run by the local Catholic church, and then take the vows. Please read what I wrote and then read what you wrote again and realize why your post seems to be based on rather naive assumptions.
Hint: The education of doctors from the UK and from Bangladesh is not necessarily the same even if they both need to graduate from a medical school.
snarky? you? never! :P
One would assume, perhaps incorrectly, that a church run seminary would have the same standards across the world. a bangladeshi university has nothing to do with a UK school and are not run by the same organization.
What i was trying to say is that a dumb pole* from a rural community and and more urban priest from a western country would attain the same education, unlike his protty counterpart with a mail in degree, which i believe is what OvB's original point was.
*make your own joke :lol:
Quote from: HVC on July 30, 2012, 03:03:18 AM
What i was trying to say is that a dumb pole* from a rural community and and more urban priest from a western country would attain the same education, unlike his protty counterpart with a mail in degree, which i believe is what OvB's original point was.
*make your own joke :lol:
Nah. I don't know to what degree the curriculum is the same across the catholic church, but definitely the quality of educators and the expectations they have of the students must vary. Perhaps you may also be confusing the quality of Catholic universities and seminars for Catholic priests - which are entirely different things.s
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Protestants are weird like that.
They get their mileage out of outrage and feelings of victimization rather than education.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 30, 2012, 06:49:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Protestants are weird like that.
They get their mileage out of outrage and feelings of victimization rather than education.
It's funny how this is true for Catholics here. So I think this has very little to do with your denomination and more with the kind of mindset that turns people to religion these days.
There's also another problem for the Church regarding education: diminishing talent pool.
For centuries they could draw from the best society had to offer. Nowadays, recruits in Europe are not exactly la creme de la creme.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 07:23:01 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 30, 2012, 06:49:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Protestants are weird like that.
They get their mileage out of outrage and feelings of victimization rather than education.
It's funny how this is true for Catholics here. So I think this has very little to do with your denomination and more with the kind of mindset that turns people to religion these days.
What? You're the same fucking guy. Your only joy in life is to feel like a martyr.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 07:23:01 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 30, 2012, 06:49:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Protestants are weird like that.
They get their mileage out of outrage and feelings of victimization rather than education.
It's funny how this is true for Catholics here. So I think this has very little to do with your denomination and more with the kind of mindset that turns people to religion these days.
Or politics, if there is a difference between the two.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 12:55:10 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Yeah, while you can still get a real doctorate in divinity or theology from a real university
It always seemed funny to me that you can get a PhD in something that's completely invented and utter bollocks. But then again the same goes for sociology.
Under various names divinity / theology etc were actually the original doctorates, and the focus of education for all major European universities founded more than 500-600 years ago. Even until relatively recently the religious program at Oxford was considered the most prominent and most respected.
I don't actually get why it would matter that it's completely invented, you can say that about anything that isn't one of the four hard sciences, maths, the engineering disciplines and a few other things dealing mostly with physical laws. I mean, you know that the law is just contrived, right? So is literature, which is a pretty legitimate PhD. path.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 12:57:30 AM
Incidentally, I meant to ask Sheilbh about it - I think there are now plenty of Polish priests being relocated to the UK, to help prevent the "secularisation" - do they also preach to the general populace or just the Polish immigrants? If the former, how they are doing?
Polish priests preach to everyone. There's a couple at Westminster Cathedral.
I think they do fine.
QuoteHint: The education of doctors from the UK and from Bangladesh is not necessarily the same even if they both need to graduate from a medical school.
I think most UK priests train abroad. There's only a couple of seminaries in England, the majority are in Spain, Belgium and Rome.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 10:44:46 AM
Polish priests preach to everyone. There's a couple at Westminster Cathedral.
I think they do fine.
My friend was telling me how her church has had a visiting Polish priest for the last several weeks. Apparently he's been a real hit with the flock.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 09:30:44 PM
Growing up in Woodlawn in the 1970s we had a family that lived down the street, they used their basement for their church, "The Church Of What's Happening Now".
Every corner Baptistard and his brother usually get their shit from correspondence schools advertised on the back of matchbooks by Sally Struthers. DEGREES AVAILABLE IN TV/VCR REPAIR ELECTRICIAN VETERINARIAN ASSISTANT BAPTIST MINISTER!
The Catholic Church may have its issues, but at least its priests are fucking professionally educated on a level rarely seen in other religions. 'Cept the Jews, they have their own thing going.
I'm baffled by the idea that priests need to be trained. Surely their god will just tell them what he wants to have said.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 30, 2012, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 12:55:10 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on July 29, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
Yeah, while you can still get a real doctorate in divinity or theology from a real university
It always seemed funny to me that you can get a PhD in something that's completely invented and utter bollocks. But then again the same goes for sociology.
Under various names divinity / theology etc were actually the original doctorates, and the focus of education for all major European universities founded more than 500-600 years ago. Even until relatively recently the religious program at Oxford was considered the most prominent and most respected.
I don't actually get why it would matter that it's completely invented, you can say that about anything that isn't one of the four hard sciences, maths, the engineering disciplines and a few other things dealing mostly with physical laws. I mean, you know that the law is just contrived, right? So is literature, which is a pretty legitimate PhD. path.
Well, actually, engineering is sort of by definition completely invented. ;)
Did Poland have a Counter-Reformation Marti? Because I think priests are pretty educated everywhere the Jesuits got to.
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 11:14:22 AM
I'm baffled by the idea that priests need to be trained. Surely their god will just tell them what he wants to have said.
They're priests, not snake handlers.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
Did Poland have a Counter-Reformation Marti? Because I think priests are pretty educated everywhere the Jesuits got to.
We had Jesuits but they have always been fairly unpopular. Plus they were kicked out of the Russian Kingdom for a while in the 19th century.
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 11:14:22 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2012, 09:30:44 PM
Growing up in Woodlawn in the 1970s we had a family that lived down the street, they used their basement for their church, "The Church Of What's Happening Now".
Every corner Baptistard and his brother usually get their shit from correspondence schools advertised on the back of matchbooks by Sally Struthers. DEGREES AVAILABLE IN TV/VCR REPAIR ELECTRICIAN VETERINARIAN ASSISTANT BAPTIST MINISTER!
The Catholic Church may have its issues, but at least its priests are fucking professionally educated on a level rarely seen in other religions. 'Cept the Jews, they have their own thing going.
I'm baffled by the idea that priests need to be trained. Surely their god will just tell them what he wants to have said.
Cause you don't understand their religion and haven't taken the time to learn?
Keep in mind everything that Marty says is suspect. I mean, he was giving us the impression that he was in mortal danger if he came out of the closet.
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
Did Poland have a Counter-Reformation Marti? Because I think priests are pretty educated everywhere the Jesuits got to.
We had Jesuits but they have always been fairly unpopular. Plus they were kicked out of the Russian Kingdom for a while in the 19th century.
Maybe the Russianness matters too? I wonder of there was a difference in style of Catholicism in, say, Austrian occupied Poland?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 11:14:22 AM
I'm baffled by the idea that priests need to be trained. Surely their god will just tell them what he wants to have said.
Cause you don't understand their religion and haven't taken the time to learn?
Plus he wants to show us how edgy he is by mocking religion on a board mostly consisting of atheists.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 11:14:22 AM
I'm baffled by the idea that priests need to be trained. Surely their god will just tell them what he wants to have said.
They're priests, not snake handlers.
He grew up among combine harvester handlers, so you'll have to excuse him. Dogmatic theology is a little beyond the Anabaptistly educated.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Though certainly not his worst, his ant-religion stuff is pretty tiring.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 10:44:46 AM
Polish priests preach to everyone. There's a couple at Westminster Cathedral.
I think they do fine.
How do they overcome the language barrier? :huh:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 12:13:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
Did Poland have a Counter-Reformation Marti? Because I think priests are pretty educated everywhere the Jesuits got to.
We had Jesuits but they have always been fairly unpopular. Plus they were kicked out of the Russian Kingdom for a while in the 19th century.
Maybe the Russianness matters too? I wonder of there was a difference in style of Catholicism in, say, Austrian occupied Poland?
Especially keeping in mind that Russia was Orthodox, not Catholic.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:44:38 AM
They're priests, not snake handlers.
What kind of an answer is that?
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 10:23:26 PM
What kind of an answer is that?
An honest one. You want people proclaiming their personal connection to God go find a holy roller and watch your wallet. A priesthood implies training, education, knowledge - I suppose a sort of professionalism.
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:30:22 PM
How do they overcome the language barrier? :huh:
They speak in English :huh:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
An honest one.
Hardly. You're imposing your own definition on the word and contrasting it with a pejorative.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 10:23:26 PM
What kind of an answer is that?
An honest one. You want people proclaiming their personal connection to God go find a holy roller and watch your wallet. A priesthood implies training, education, knowledge - I suppose a sort of professionalism.
As far as watching your wallet goes, while the priests themselves take a vow of poverty, the Catholic Church as an institution isn't known for its lack of wealth.
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 10:50:21 PM
Hardly. You're imposing your own definition on the word and contrasting it with a pejorative.
You shouldn't be so down on low Church Protestantism :P
I don't think I'm imposing my meaning on the word, you're imposing a theological point on it. Etymologically it comes from the Greek 'prebyster' which means elder. The defining feature is not personal connection with God (that's perhaps more implied in the 'sacerdos' who was a sacrificing priest) but a quality of knowledge - it's for that we turn to elders.
For what it's worth I think the hints of Jesuitical smartness is part what made many low Church groups turn from the label of priest in favour of 'minister', 'pastor' or, indeed, 'presbyter'. Being a 'priest' suggests something of the Pharisees rather than, as you say, a personal or communal relationship with God.
Quote from: dps on July 30, 2012, 10:54:51 PM
As far as watching your wallet goes, while the priests themselves take a vow of poverty, the Catholic Church as an institution isn't known for its lack of wealth.
No doubt. Though, in fairness, I imagine most of that's in assets. What little money they make, they make as any honest Roman would, by money laundering for the Mafia. Ad maiorem Dei gloriam and all that :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:06:15 PM
For what it's worth I think the hints of Jesuitical smartness is part what made many low Church groups turn from the label of priest in favour of 'minister', 'pastor' or, indeed, 'presbyter'. Being a 'priest' suggests something of the Pharisees rather than, as you say, a personal or communal relationship with God.
OTOH, "priest" is also the term that would commonly be used for leaders of pagan religions. And in this context, by "pagan" I mean tribal religious groups, not "pagan" as in classic Greco-Roman religion and certainly not in the sense of neo-pagans.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2012, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Though certainly not his worst, his ant-religion stuff is pretty tiring.
What's "ant-religion"?
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2012, 03:04:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2012, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Though certainly not his worst, his ant-religion stuff is pretty tiring.
What's "ant-religion"?
The queen is the only god and hamilcar is her prophet
Quote from: dps on July 30, 2012, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 12:13:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 11:42:36 AM
Did Poland have a Counter-Reformation Marti? Because I think priests are pretty educated everywhere the Jesuits got to.
We had Jesuits but they have always been fairly unpopular. Plus they were kicked out of the Russian Kingdom for a while in the 19th century.
Maybe the Russianness matters too? I wonder of there was a difference in style of Catholicism in, say, Austrian occupied Poland?
Especially keeping in mind that Russia was Orthodox, not Catholic.
We are talking about Russia-occupied Poland. It was a part of the Russian Empire and it was Catholic.
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2012, 03:04:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2012, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Though certainly not his worst, his ant-religion stuff is pretty tiring.
What's "ant-religion"?
:yawn:
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 30, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
Also, I supported your crazy ass in the nepotism thread - why are you taking pot shots here?
Cause I dislike you shrill anti-religion screeds.
Of all the things Marty talks about, that's what you have a problem with?
Yeah, funny me, taking offense at his casual talk of murder of large segments of the population.
Quote from: Maximus on July 30, 2012, 10:50:21 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 30, 2012, 10:30:40 PM
An honest one.
Hardly. You're imposing your own definition on the word and contrasting it with a pejorative.
We've been over this before when you said you didn't think there was much in the way of intellectual underpinnings of religion based on personal experience.