How uncivilized and outdated! :mad:
http://news.yahoo.com/egyptians-pelt-clinton-motorcade-tomatoes-054344514.html
QuoteALEXANDRIA, Egypt (Reuters) - Protesters threw tomatoes and shoes at U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's motorcade on Sunday during her first visit to Egypt since the election of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi.
A tomato struck an Egyptian official in the face, and shoes and a water bottle landed near the armoured cars carrying Clinton's delegation in the port city of Alexandria after she gave a speech on democratic rights.
A senior U.S. official said neither Clinton nor her vehicle, which was around the corner from the incident, were hit by the projectiles, which were thrown as U.S. officials and reporters walked to the motorcade after her speech.
Protesters chanted "Monica, Monica," a reference to the extra-marital affair conducted by Clinton's husband, former President Bill Clinton, while in the White House. Others earlier chanted "leave, Clinton" an Egyptian security official said.
It was not clear who the protesters were or what were their political affiliations. Demonstrations have become common in Egypt since former President Hosni Mubarak, long-time U.S. ally, was brought down by mass street protests last year.
Egypt is gripped by political uncertainty as two major forces, the military and the Muslim Brotherhood, engage in a power struggle over the future of a country that remains without a permanent constitution, parliament or government.
On Saturday night, protesters outside Clinton's luxury hotel in Cairo chanted anti-Islamist slogans, accusing the United States of backing the Muslim Brotherhood's rise to power.
In her speech at the newly re-opened U.S. consulate in Alexandria, Clinton rejected suggestions that the United States, which had long supported former Mubarak, was backing one faction or another in Egypt following his ouster last year.
"I want to be clear that the United States is not in the business, in Egypt, of choosing winners and losers, even if we could, which of course we cannot," Clinton said.
"We are prepared to work with you as you chart your course, as you establish your democracy," she added. "We want to stand for principles, for values, not for people or for parties."
Earlier on Sunday, Clinton met Egypt's top general, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, to discuss Egypt's turbulent democratic transition as the military wrestles for influence with the new president.
The meeting came a day after she met Mursi, whose powers were clipped by the military days before he took office.
Mursi fired back by reinstating the Islamist-dominated parliament that the army leadership had disbanded after a court declared it void, deepening the stand-off before the new leader even had time to form a government.
In their hour-long meeting, Clinton and Tantawi discussed Egypt's political transition, the military's "ongoing dialogue with President Mursi," and the country's economic troubles, a U.S. official travelling with Clinton said in an email brief.
"Tantawi stressed that this is what Egyptians need most now - help getting the economy back on track," the official said.
The talks also touched on the increasingly lawless Sinai region and the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
Speaking after the meeting, Tantawi said the army respected the presidency but would not be deterred from its role of "protecting" Egypt.
"The armed forces and the army council respects legislative and executive authorities," he said in a speech to troops in the city of Ismailia. "The armed forces would not allow anyone to discourage it from its role in protecting Egypt and its people."
Ties with the United States, which provides Egypt with an annual $1.3 billion in military aid, were strained this year when Egyptian judicial police raided the offices of several U.S.-backed non-governmental organisations on suspicion of illegal foreign funding and put several Americans on trial.
The spat ended when Egyptian authorities allowed the U.S. citizens and other foreign workers to leave the country.
Clinton said Washington wanted to support "real democracy," in which "no group or faction or leader can impose their will, their ideology, their religion, their desires on anyone else."
She delivered a similar message in earlier meetings with women and Christians, both groups that fear their rights may be curtailed under a Muslim Brotherhood-dominated government.
"I will be honest and say some have legitimate fears about their future," she said. "I said to them ... no Egyptian, no person anywhere, should be persecuted for their faith, or their lack of faith, for their choices about working and not working.
"Democracy is not just about reflecting the will of the majority. It is also about protecting the rights of the minority," she said.
The United States had learned that "the hard way," Clinton said, noting the U.S. constitution originally did not protect the rights of women or slaves.
if they can spare tomatoes for that they can't be all that hungry after all. Time to raise the foodprices some more
I doubt this reflects much of a change in sentiment towards the US amongst Egyptians; rather, I suspect, it's that some faction or other is taking advantage of less military control and trying to influence the agenda by focusing on the US.
The "Monica" chants thing is both funny and pathetic.
Quote from: Jacob on July 16, 2012, 12:57:19 PM
The "Monica" chants thing is both funny and pathetic.
Yes. :D
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 16, 2012, 12:47:39 PM
if they can spare tomatoes for that they can't be all that hungry after all. Time to raise the foodprices some more
Oh don't worry, they are going to enjoy the corn prices coming up.
FOOD INSECURITY.
Quote from: Jacob on July 16, 2012, 12:57:19 PM
I doubt this reflects much of a change in sentiment towards the US amongst Egyptians; rather, I suspect, it's that some faction or other is taking advantage of less military control and trying to influence the agenda by focusing on the US.
Not sure I follow the logic here.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 16, 2012, 03:05:58 PMNot sure I follow the logic here.
Pre-uprising:
- Any number (maybe just a tiny fringe, maybe most of them) of Egyptians disliked the US to some degree.
- Some of those people were organized enough that they could muster a tomato throwing appearance if the US Secretary of State came through town.
- But they did not, because the Egyptian military and police (secret or otherwise) had shit locked down tight.
Post-uprising:
- Hypothesis: The number of people who disliked the US to some degree remains largely unchanged. (Reason: No major developments of local significance are particularly US related or caused by a change in US actions).
- Hypothesis: The number of people who are organized enough to get a tomato-chucking party may have increased. (Reason: political organizing is evidently freer).
- The consequences of throwing tomatos at the US official visitor has decreased significantly as the military and police have more limited scope for cracking heads without getting in trouble.
Thus:
- Throwing tomatos at Ms. Clinton is a more reasonable proposition for those Egyptians who wish to distance their nation from the US post uprising.
- This does not necessarily indicate a significant change in the average Egyptian opinion re: the US, as the primary factor that has changed is the ability of disparate groups to express themselves.
- In other words, it's a deliberate attempt to influence the US-Egypt relationship, rather than a reflection of a change in Egyptian society beyond the ability for different groups to express themselves; nor is it a reflection of a marked deterioration of the relationship.
10-4.
Agreed.
Far more indicative of an upsurge/shift in anti-Americanism is the trend among the secular, pro-military Mubarakists to blame the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood on the US :lol:
Everything in the arab world that happens is part of an american/cia/zionist/mossad/hizbullah/IMF/Ben&Jerry's/Mubhakharat/Ba'ath/Crusader conspiracy to do something that no rational explanation exists to explain how this is in their interest.
All mid-east politics make sense when you work on the assumption that everybody in that part of the world is a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
QuoteBen&Jerry's
Let's hope they don't discover the Ben and Jerry's flavor graveyard.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 16, 2012, 06:39:27 PM
QuoteBen&Jerry's
Let's hope they don't discover the Ben and Jerry's flavor graveyard.
Yeah, B&J is all about keeping hommous above E£ 0.5 per kilo for the benefit of Zionist IMF cadres plotting to return the Savak and the Shah to Iran.
The Egyptians should not be allowed to disrespect our Secretary of State. Only Bill Clinton has that privilege.
Quote from: Phillip V on July 17, 2012, 10:06:22 AM
The Egyptians should not be allowed to disrespect our Secretary of State. Only Bill Clinton has that privilege.
Had. Not sure he is allowed to do so now.
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
Had. Not sure he is allowed to do so now.
Her political price still has a significant premium built in for being Bubba's wife.
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on July 17, 2012, 10:06:22 AM
The Egyptians should not be allowed to disrespect our Secretary of State. Only Bill Clinton has that privilege.
Had. Not sure he is allowed to do so now.
I thought there were loads of rumours of him wildcatting about between Presidency and 2008? :mellow:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 17, 2012, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on July 17, 2012, 10:06:22 AM
The Egyptians should not be allowed to disrespect our Secretary of State. Only Bill Clinton has that privilege.
Had. Not sure he is allowed to do so now.
I thought there were loads of rumours of him wildcatting about between Presidency and 2008? :mellow:
I think her popularity is a bit different between 2008 and now.
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2012, 10:45:19 AMI think her popularity is a bit different between 2008 and now.
So's her position. From the rumours I thought he stopped because she was running for President and is now Secretary of State. If she retires I imagine he'll start again.
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 17, 2012, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 17, 2012, 10:45:19 AMI think her popularity is a bit different between 2008 and now.
So's her position. From the rumours I thought he stopped because she was running for President and is now Secretary of State. If she retires I imagine he'll start again.
Has he stopped, or is he just being more discreet?
Quote from: Viking on July 16, 2012, 06:29:51 PM
Everything in the arab world that happens is part of an american/cia/zionist/mossad/hizbullah/IMF/Ben&Jerry's/Mubhakharat/Ba'ath/Crusader conspiracy to do something that no rational explanation exists to explain how this is in their interest.
All mid-east politics make sense when you work on the assumption that everybody in that part of the world is a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Gee, wonder where they get it from.
QuoteBehind Jeers for Clinton in Egypt, a Conspiracy Theory With U.S. Roots
By Robert Mackey
New York Times
The news that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's motorcade was pelted with shoes and tomatoes by Egyptian protesters, who also taunted her by chanting "Monica! Monica!" as she left the U.S. consulate in Alexandria on Sunday, delighted conservative bloggers in the United States.
What has attracted less attention, however, is the extent to which the Egyptians who vented their rage during Mrs. Clinton's visit appear to have been inspired by fears that the Obama administration harbors a secret, pro-Islamist agenda which originated with American conservatives.
As my colleague Kareem Fahim reported on Sunday, some political opponents of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt claim that the United States even plotted to install the Islamist party's presidential candidate in office. "Although wildly counterintuitive," my colleagues David Kirkpatrick and Mayy El Sheikh observed on Saturday, "that conspiracy theory has tapped into the deep popular distrust here of the United States."
The strength of that belief was on full display on Saturday in Cairo, as hundreds rallied outside Mrs. Clinton's hotel, waving placards that read: "Stop U.S. funding of the Muslim Brotherhood," "Clinton is the supreme guide of the Muslim Brotherhood" and "To Hillary: Hamas will never rule Egypt," suggesting an even-wider conspiracy, including the Islamists in neighboring Gaza.
The Egyptian writer and blogger Bassem Sabry reported on Twitter that the protesters at Saturday's rally roared their approval when they were addressed by Tawfik Okasha, the host of a popular television program who has been called "Egypt's Glenn Beck," because of his embrace of conspiratorial thinking and hatred of political Islam. Last month, Mr. Okasha insisted that the presidential election had been rigged at the behest of the U.S. to deny Ahmed Shafik, a former general who was Hosni Mubarak's last prime minister, the victory he earned at the ballot box.
Mr. Sabry also noted evidence of a desire among some in the crowd to remind Mrs. Clinton of her husband's infidelity with a White House intern.
Pressed by American reporters to explain where they got the idea that their new Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi, had been foisted on them through a U.S. plot, rather than the will of the majority, several Egyptians cited information gathered from American blogs or news sites.
An Egyptian-American Christian who met Mrs. Clinton on Sunday cited recent claims by Representative Michele Bachmann, a Republican, "that the Obama Administration is pursuing a closeted pro-Muslim agenda," in a conversation with Time magazine's correspondent, Abigail Hauslohner.
Rumors that the Obama administration has provided the Muslim Brotherhood with billions of dollars in aid remain an article of faith with many Egyptians who are convinced that Mr. Morsi's victory was a sham, despite repeated efforts by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to correct the record on Twitter.
In an online conversation on Monday, when Matt Bradley of The Wall Street Journal asked an Egyptian blogger named Sara Ahmed for proof that the Obama administration was "financing" the Muslim Brotherhood, she directed him to a blog post about American aid to Egypt by an ultra-conservative Canadian blogger, Judi McLeod. Ms. McLeod's post was based on a news story posted on Lucianne.com, a site run by Lucianne Goldberg, an American conservative who played a central role in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
As Mr. Bradley pointed out to Ms. Ahmed, though, Ms. McLeod had badly garbled the original news report, which simply said that the U.S. had decided to release $1.3 billion in aid to Egypt's military in April. Ms. McLeod falsely reported that the money had been given instead to a delegation of Muslim Brotherhood leaders who visited Washington around the same time.
Ms. Ahmed then directed Mr. Bradley to a transcript of a recent conversation between two American conservatives who claimed that Mrs. Clinton's deputy chief of staff, Huma Abedin, was participating in a Muslim Brotherhood plot "to penetrate our government."
The conversation was an episode of a Web radio program hosted by Frank Gaffney, who served in the Reagan administration and now leads the effort to block what he calls the Brotherhood's secret plot to impose Islamic Shariah law on Americans.
This year, Mr. Gaffney's organization, the Center for Security Policy, released a 10-part lecture series, "The Muslim Brotherhood in America: The Enemy Within," in which he lays out what he sees as the entire conspiracy in great detail.
In a letter to the State Department's deputy inspector general last month, Ms. Bachmann, the Republican congresswoman, cited Mr. Gaffney's video series to explain her concerns about American diplomatic "policies and activities that appear to be the result of influence operations conducted by individuals and organizations associated with the Muslim Brotherhood." A copy of the letter posted online by the St. Cloud Times in Ms. Bachmann's home state of Minnesota shows that she also cited Mr. Gaffney to accuse Mrs. Clinton's aide, Ms. Abedin, of being at the nexus of an Islamist plot which explained why the State Department had been "assisting the realization of the Brotherhood's goals."
The episode of Mr. Gaffney's Web radio show that Ms. Ahmed cited was a conversation, on the Fourth of July, with a retired American general, William G. Boykin.
As my colleague Erik Eckholm reported in January, "General Boykin, a longtime commander of Special Operations forces, first caused controversy after the Sept. 11 attacks when, as a senior Pentagon official, he described the fight against terrorism as a Christian battle against Satan."
In 2003, after General Boykin was appointed deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, The Los Angeles Times reported that he had made a speech at a church in Florida in which he recalled being certain that he would capture a Muslim warlord in Somalia because, "I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."
Despite Mr. Bradley's effort to convince her that General Boykin did not possess any inside information, Ms. Ahmed remained resolute in her belief that a former official who served in such a high position in the Pentagon would not make such accusations without proof.
Just like little children, you have to be careful what you say in front of them. And if they're getting all their "news" from the Limbloggisphere...well, we know which of our wingnuts and crazies are full of shit. They don't.
Quote from: Jacob on July 16, 2012, 12:57:19 PM
I doubt this reflects much of a change in sentiment towards the US amongst Egyptians; rather, I suspect, it's that some faction or other is taking advantage of less military control and trying to influence the agenda by focusing on the US.
The "Monica" chants thing is both funny and pathetic.
I'm surprised they didn't chant "Throw the Jew down the well." I hear Borat was a big hit there this year.
The Clintons are American royalty.
Well, she was telling some terrible jokes at the previous venue.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 17, 2012, 09:07:33 PM
Gee, wonder where they get it from.
QuoteBehind Jeers for Clinton in Egypt, a Conspiracy Theory With U.S. Roots
By Robert Mackey
New York Times
The news that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's motorcade was pelted with shoes and tomatoes by Egyptian protesters, who also taunted her by chanting "Monica! Monica!" as she left the U.S. consulate in Alexandria on Sunday, delighted conservative bloggers in the United States.
What has attracted less attention, however, is the extent to which the Egyptians who vented their rage during Mrs. Clinton's visit appear to have been inspired by fears that the Obama administration harbors a secret, pro-Islamist agenda which originated with American conservatives.
As my colleague Kareem Fahim reported on Sunday, some political opponents of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt claim that the United States even plotted to install the Islamist party's presidential candidate in office. "Although wildly counterintuitive," my colleagues David Kirkpatrick and Mayy El Sheikh observed on Saturday, "that conspiracy theory has tapped into the deep popular distrust here of the United States."
The strength of that belief was on full display on Saturday in Cairo, as hundreds rallied outside Mrs. Clinton's hotel, waving placards that read: "Stop U.S. funding of the Muslim Brotherhood," "Clinton is the supreme guide of the Muslim Brotherhood" and "To Hillary: Hamas will never rule Egypt," suggesting an even-wider conspiracy, including the Islamists in neighboring Gaza.
The Egyptian writer and blogger Bassem Sabry reported on Twitter that the protesters at Saturday's rally roared their approval when they were addressed by Tawfik Okasha, the host of a popular television program who has been called "Egypt's Glenn Beck," because of his embrace of conspiratorial thinking and hatred of political Islam. Last month, Mr. Okasha insisted that the presidential election had been rigged at the behest of the U.S. to deny Ahmed Shafik, a former general who was Hosni Mubarak's last prime minister, the victory he earned at the ballot box.
Mr. Sabry also noted evidence of a desire among some in the crowd to remind Mrs. Clinton of her husband's infidelity with a White House intern.
Pressed by American reporters to explain where they got the idea that their new Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi, had been foisted on them through a U.S. plot, rather than the will of the majority, several Egyptians cited information gathered from American blogs or news sites.
An Egyptian-American Christian who met Mrs. Clinton on Sunday cited recent claims by Representative Michele Bachmann, a Republican, "that the Obama Administration is pursuing a closeted pro-Muslim agenda," in a conversation with Time magazine's correspondent, Abigail Hauslohner.
Rumors that the Obama administration has provided the Muslim Brotherhood with billions of dollars in aid remain an article of faith with many Egyptians who are convinced that Mr. Morsi's victory was a sham, despite repeated efforts by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to correct the record on Twitter.
In an online conversation on Monday, when Matt Bradley of The Wall Street Journal asked an Egyptian blogger named Sara Ahmed for proof that the Obama administration was "financing" the Muslim Brotherhood, she directed him to a blog post about American aid to Egypt by an ultra-conservative Canadian blogger, Judi McLeod. Ms. McLeod's post was based on a news story posted on Lucianne.com, a site run by Lucianne Goldberg, an American conservative who played a central role in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
As Mr. Bradley pointed out to Ms. Ahmed, though, Ms. McLeod had badly garbled the original news report, which simply said that the U.S. had decided to release $1.3 billion in aid to Egypt's military in April. Ms. McLeod falsely reported that the money had been given instead to a delegation of Muslim Brotherhood leaders who visited Washington around the same time.
Ms. Ahmed then directed Mr. Bradley to a transcript of a recent conversation between two American conservatives who claimed that Mrs. Clinton's deputy chief of staff, Huma Abedin, was participating in a Muslim Brotherhood plot "to penetrate our government."
The conversation was an episode of a Web radio program hosted by Frank Gaffney, who served in the Reagan administration and now leads the effort to block what he calls the Brotherhood's secret plot to impose Islamic Shariah law on Americans.
This year, Mr. Gaffney's organization, the Center for Security Policy, released a 10-part lecture series, "The Muslim Brotherhood in America: The Enemy Within," in which he lays out what he sees as the entire conspiracy in great detail.
In a letter to the State Department's deputy inspector general last month, Ms. Bachmann, the Republican congresswoman, cited Mr. Gaffney's video series to explain her concerns about American diplomatic "policies and activities that appear to be the result of influence operations conducted by individuals and organizations associated with the Muslim Brotherhood." A copy of the letter posted online by the St. Cloud Times in Ms. Bachmann's home state of Minnesota shows that she also cited Mr. Gaffney to accuse Mrs. Clinton's aide, Ms. Abedin, of being at the nexus of an Islamist plot which explained why the State Department had been "assisting the realization of the Brotherhood's goals."
The episode of Mr. Gaffney's Web radio show that Ms. Ahmed cited was a conversation, on the Fourth of July, with a retired American general, William G. Boykin.
As my colleague Erik Eckholm reported in January, "General Boykin, a longtime commander of Special Operations forces, first caused controversy after the Sept. 11 attacks when, as a senior Pentagon official, he described the fight against terrorism as a Christian battle against Satan."
In 2003, after General Boykin was appointed deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, The Los Angeles Times reported that he had made a speech at a church in Florida in which he recalled being certain that he would capture a Muslim warlord in Somalia because, "I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."
Despite Mr. Bradley's effort to convince her that General Boykin did not possess any inside information, Ms. Ahmed remained resolute in her belief that a former official who served in such a high position in the Pentagon would not make such accusations without proof.
Just like little children, you have to be careful what you say in front of them. And if they're getting all their "news" from the Limbloggisphere...well, we know which of our wingnuts and crazies are full of shit. They don't.
:lmfao: Please, pleae tell me you're satirizing yourself.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 10:00:06 AM
:lmfao: Please, pleae tell me you're satirizing yourself.
Which part? That your average Middle Eastern sandal slapper has an infantile grasp of current events? Or that the educated ones get their talking points from Michele Bachmann?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 18, 2012, 12:44:37 PM
Which part? That your average Middle Eastern sandal slapper has an infantile grasp of current events? Or that the educated ones get their talking points from Michele Bachmann?
That Egyptians hadn't concieved of the notion of the US rigging their election till Limbaugh and friends tipped them off.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 18, 2012, 01:11:21 PM
That Egyptians hadn't concieved of the notion of the US rigging their election till Limbaugh and friends tipped them off.
Come on, these are the same people that think we're all Jews anyway. You know how those people think. But our goofs pumping up their goofs over there is doing anybody any favors.