Ok the name of Soros and Trump has been mentioned here before as rich men with their fingers in US politics but I have never heard about the Koch brothers before the Newsroom and it seems they are real.
They own the Cato Institute (which has been quoted here many times) and have extensive funding connections to the tea party, but I don't recall anyone ever referring to them here.
What gives?
We've talked about them.
Ok.
Ayup.
I missed the news about the Koch brothers buying the Cato Institute.
They have been in the news for years now. I am sure they must have been mentioned here.
Their dad was a crazy John Birch society type (people who thought Dwight D. Eisenhower was a communist agent). who also helped the Soviets with their oil industry. A company owned by the Koch Brothers was fined millions of dollars for stealing oil on US government land.
Apparently, they are super-rich libertarians who (mistakenly) think they can control the right-wing mob for their own benefit.
Oh, and I don't think you qualify as "rich man" if your finger is not in your country's politics.
Quote from: Tamas on July 15, 2012, 02:43:26 PM
Oh, and I don't think you qualify as "rich man" if your finger is not in your country's politics.
:huh:
Yes, they are totally real. Koch Industries is probably one of the largest (if not the) largest private companies in the United States, so each of them is worth over $20bn. Charles Koch originally founded the Cato Institute (it originally bore his name), but he is no longer heavily associated with it. His brother, David, is on the Cato Institute board of directors. The Kochs are definitely the major drivers behind the Cato Institute, but I believe it's technically a not-for-profit foundation so doesn't have shareholders or owners, but obviously big donors hold a lot of power in those sort of organizations.
Both Kochs give heavily to Tea Party type causes. Lots of people on the left argue the Tea Party is not a popular movement at all, but a manufactured movement fueled almost solely by Koch dollars, even going so far as to pay people to show up at protest rallies and etc. (I've never dug into that enough to judge its validity, but it seems like to me the Tea Party and its ideas fit in perfectly with fairly mainstream types of stupidity in this country so I tend to think it's legitimately got organic legs.)
I also think sort of like the brothers who founded Aldi, the Koch brothers while involved in the same stuff I think are personally estranged from each other and haven't spoken in years.
Also, there are actually four "Koch Brothers." The two that are by far the wealthiest and have like 40% stakes in Koch Industries are Charles and David, and they are the ones most commonly being talked about. Frederick Koch (the oldest brother) has never had too much to do with the company, but he did side with his youngest brother (William) in some battle over control of the company in the 70s/80s against the two middle brothers. The two middle brothers won, the oldest brother is sort of a socialite/art collector type that I've never heard being particularly involved in politics. The youngest brother is far less wealthy than the middle two (he has around $4bn), but he's donated some big dollars to Mitt Romney Super PACs.
Quote from: Zanza on July 15, 2012, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 15, 2012, 02:43:26 PM
Oh, and I don't think you qualify as "rich man" if your finger is not in your country's politics.
:huh:
You think there is a "rich man" that has
less influence than a poor?
Quote from: citizen k on July 15, 2012, 03:14:08 PM
You think there is a "rich man" that has less influence than a poor?
Sure. Compare Bill Gates pre-anti trust with a random poor member of AARP.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 15, 2012, 02:18:31 PM
I missed the news about the Koch brothers buying the Cato Institute.
It's not an accurate description, but it was a huge story when they tried to turn Cato from being just libertarian to more aimed at getting Republicans elected. I generally don't get the anti-Koch feeling but a lot of what I read from Cato staff changed my opinion. Here's an article on it:
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/the-battle-for-cato/
As Zanza says they've been in the news a lot and mentioned here many times. Also is the Newsroom as bad as it seems?
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 15, 2012, 05:09:52 PM
Also is the Newsroom as bad as it seems?
I think it depends a lot on how much you like Sorkin's TV work. Emily Mortimer seems to have problem with Sorkin's rapid-fire style and the naivete and stupidity of some of the characters can be a bit troubling, but at least there's no character that is as unlikeable as the female lead on Studio 60. It's not Sorkin's finest hour, but it's better than the sixth season of the West Wing.
I also feel some identification with the protagonist, as we're both Nixonian conservatives that have been left behind by movement conservatives devoted to fighting a lost culture war.
I find it ironic that Marty has so little knowledge of so many Big Kochs.
Quote from: mongers on July 15, 2012, 06:09:36 PM
I find it ironic that Marty has so little knowledge of so many Big Kochs.
Sorry to piss on your parade, but it's pronounced Coke.
Quote from: Tamas on July 15, 2012, 02:42:39 PM
Apparently, they are super-rich libertarians who (mistakenly) think they can control the right-wing mob for their own benefit.
Worked just fine so far. They've managed to steer the public debate to the point where the question is how much the ri.., err, the job creators should be allowed to fuck the poor and the middle class, not whether it should be done at all.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 15, 2012, 06:21:02 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 15, 2012, 06:09:36 PM
I find it ironic that Marty has so little knowledge of so many Big Kochs.
Sorry to piss on your parade, but it's pronounced Coke.
I thought it was pronounced so as to rhyme with "crotch." That's how I've always heard it said. :unsure:
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 15, 2012, 05:09:52 PM
Also is the Newsroom as bad as it seems?
I don't know. It's the first "normal" (i.e. not fantasy/scifi) show I have liked in a long time (I was utterly bored by Madmen for example and couldn't get into The Wire). I think it may be because characters are actually likable.
Quote from: Ideologue on July 16, 2012, 01:29:50 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 15, 2012, 06:21:02 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 15, 2012, 06:09:36 PM
I find it ironic that Marty has so little knowledge of so many Big Kochs.
Sorry to piss on your parade, but it's pronounced Coke.
I thought it was pronounced so as to rhyme with "crotch." That's how I've always heard it said. :unsure:
Same here
Quote from: citizen k on July 15, 2012, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 15, 2012, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 15, 2012, 02:43:26 PM
Oh, and I don't think you qualify as "rich man" if your finger is not in your country's politics.
:huh:
You think there is a "rich man" that has less influence than a poor?
Probably not. But that's completely unrelated to the question whether one can be a rich man without having "your fingers in your country's politics".
Quote from: Ideologue on July 16, 2012, 01:29:50 AM
I thought it was pronounced so as to rhyme with "crotch." That's how I've always heard it said. :unsure:
The Economist reported that Moveon.org was protesting at a Romney fundraiser in the Hamptons with a plane dragging a banner that said "Romney has a Koch habit." The Economist agreed that it's pronounced Coke.
Hard to argue with both George Soros and The Economist.
I am sorry, but pronouncing it like "Koch" with the "ch" sounding like "h" in, say, "holster", make the name more jew-sounding, so I am pretty sure most people pronounce it like that :P
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2012, 04:24:16 AM
I am sorry, but pronouncing it like "Koch" with the "ch" sounding like "h" in, say, "holster", make the name more jew-sounding, so I am pretty sure most people pronounce it like that :P
First of all :blink:
Secondly the problems how you pronounce the 'o': cock or coke. I think the 'ch' pronunciations would be either like a 'k' or like a Scottish 'ch' (like 'loch'). I think the latter is pretty rare in the US so would probably be a bit pretentious so it would just be a 'k'.
Both the Newsroom and Wikipedia pronounce it similar to "coke".
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2012, 04:24:16 AM
I am sorry, but pronouncing it like "Koch" with the "ch" sounding like "h" in, say, "holster", make the name more jew-sounding, so I am pretty sure most people pronounce it like that :P
That's a rather interesting theory - that the proper pronounciation of a word is determined by how most people pronounce it. By this approach "sorry" is pronounced "solly".
How do the Kochs pronounce their own name? That should be the correct pronounciation.
Quote from: Monoriu on July 16, 2012, 05:47:53 AM
How do the Kochs pronounce their own name? That should be the correct pronounciation.
"Pronounciation"? :hmm:
humor is lost on you people.
don't be so square
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2012, 06:14:47 AM
humor is lost on you people.
don't be so square
Be more funny.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 15, 2012, 02:18:31 PM
I missed the news about the Koch brothers buying the Cato Institute.
Caused a huge ruckus in the libertarian crowd, mostly anti-Koch.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 16, 2012, 04:15:07 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 16, 2012, 01:29:50 AM
I thought it was pronounced so as to rhyme with "crotch." That's how I've always heard it said. :unsure:
The Economist reported that Moveon.org was protesting at a Romney fundraiser in the Hamptons with a plane dragging a banner that said "Romney has a Koch habit." The Economist agreed that it's pronounced Coke.
Hard to argue with both George Soros and The Economist.
What about Diet Koch? Pronounced the same?
Why the fuck would you pronounce ch as k?
Quote from: Tamas on July 16, 2012, 12:07:11 PM
Why the fuck would you pronounce ch as k?
Because most Anglophones have trouble with the voiceless uvular fricative.
I always pronounce it like I would in German. Isn't there where it comes from?
Quote from: Iormlund on July 16, 2012, 02:57:33 PM
I always pronounce it like I would in German. Isn't there where it comes from?
That's irrelevant, really - most names come from somewhere but insisting on pronouncing them according to some remote origin just does not work. "Obama" probably gets pronounced differently in Kenyan, but that's irrelevant.
Rumor Sorkin fired the entire writing staff of The Newsroom except one. His girlfriend.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 20, 2012, 11:30:55 AM
Rumor Sorkin fired the entire writing staff of The Newsroom except one. His girlfriend.
Obviously the Koch brothers gave him a call. :ph34r: