no thread on this yet. Shame, Languish.
I have been poking around in this game since the beta.
It is a 4X game, with a most excellent interface, nice "feeling", and some unique ideas.
One of the ideas, which is universaly hated by control freaks, is that combat isn't human controlled, so you lose the chance to exploit the limitations of tactical AIs. Instead, you have 3 phases in combat based on range, and for each phase you select a "card" from the ones available, to select your tactic. I like it.
An other interesting take is that while you have separate population on planets, and different kind of planets let you produce different amount of resources (food, industry, research, money) per population on it, the buildings are built on the system level. So if you build an industrial complex it will give bonus on your industry for all planets in the system.
I find this an acceptable compromise between solar system detail and limit on necessary micromanagement.
The planets may have various resources, CIV-style.
The default state of diplomacy against othe races is "cold war" where you are free to engage them in systems which are not colonies. And if you colonize the first planet in a system, it is just an outpost - it will take it a while to become a colony, until which it is vulnerable to cold-warring enemies.
There are treaties like peace and alliance and stuff, you need to research these though.
The races are a mixed bag, but in general nice. Backstory have the Altarans... I mean some other ancient über-advanced civilization being disappeared, and a lot of stuff you can find on planets is based on those remains, and so are the two "robot" species, one are the war-waging robots of the ancients being lose, the other are the terraformer robots of the ancients just going on about their business of terraforming the galaxy.
Beside them, you have telepathic giant amobeas, evil industrial empire humans, religious humans worshipping the ancients, samurai-ish bird people, and a race which is made of the clones of a multi-billionaire who felt like it was a great idea to keep cloning himself endlessly and build a civilization.
I would simply love this game, if it wasnt for the AI. The game got released yesterday, and there was a huge patch I haven't tried, and initial reports say there have been very obvious improvements to the AI, but there was a pretty big room for improvements.
Most notably, while combat techs are Galciv 2-ish in terms of various kinds of attacks having various kinds of defenses against them and you can't really outfit your start and mid-era ships with everything, the AI was never big about changing it's design mid-game, in the beta.
People saying this has changed, I'll see how much.
The game also has now, with the release version, a custom race builder. And it has multiplayer. I think it would be a pretty good candidate for some Languish space-gaming, as I said it is very streamlined, but there are clear opportunities for different strategies and ways of victory.
I've been looking at this for a while but 4xperience tells me that these games suck.
What do you know about Legends of Pegasus btw?
Quote from: The Brain on July 05, 2012, 02:57:51 AM
What do you know about Legends of Pegasus btw?
Isnt that being made by Kalypso? If yes, there are two problems with it: it is not done yet, and it is being made by Kalypso.
Quote from: Tamas on July 05, 2012, 02:58:57 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 05, 2012, 02:57:51 AM
What do you know about Legends of Pegasus btw?
Isnt that being made by Kalypso? If yes, there are two problems with it: it is not done yet, and it is being made by Kalypso.
10-4.
Played the beta a bit, but haven't spent much time with it because turn processing was so. Fucking. Slow. Saw the release yesterday but haven't played it yet.
I like the general look and feel of the game and that it tries to break out of some of the mold of space 4x with some of its races and designs. It has the customary scientist/diplomat/warrior races, but I like the wackiness of stuff like the terraformers or Horatio (a super-rich guy who decided to populate the galaxy with clones of himself). Humans are not your usual neutral trade/diplomacy/average race, but an evil corporate/monarchy mix - or more peaceful religious nutters. The ambient music also scores high on my list.
Can you craft your own race like Moo2?
Quote from: Cecil on July 05, 2012, 11:35:08 AM
Can you craft your own race like Moo2?
I think they added that feature in the live release.
Whats with the no review tampax? You are dissapointing us here. :(
Quote from: Cecil on July 06, 2012, 08:15:51 AM
Whats with the no review tampax? You are dissapointing us here. :(
i ignore that derogatory nick, FYI
:P
Quote from: Tamas on July 06, 2012, 08:36:19 AM
Quote from: Cecil on July 06, 2012, 08:15:51 AM
Whats with the no review tampax? You are dissapointing us here. :(
i ignore that derogatory nick, FYI
:P
Start cracking at that review and I´ll stop using it.
Chop chop, Tampax.
:lol: effin' aholes, the lot of you.
Quite the nerve you have, since I already gave you a review in the opening post.
You are welcome.
Quote from: Tamas on July 06, 2012, 10:54:40 AM
:lol: effin' aholes, the lot of you.
Quite the nerve you have, since I already gave you a review in the opening post.
You are welcome.
Bah that barely covers what would be seen on the backside of an old PC game box.
Tammy fails at providing link to game he is babbling about.
Quote from: Berkut on July 06, 2012, 01:24:00 PM
Tammy fails at providing link to game he is babbling about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etExP7050GI&feature=related
it's all over Steam :rolleyes:
I am intrigued.
Very, very intrigued...
Tell me about MP...
Quote from: Berkut on July 06, 2012, 03:50:21 PM
I am intrigued.
Very, very intrigued...
Tell me about MP...
I asked some friends that have played it:
Quote from: HannibalQuote from: VaramQuote from: Hannibal
Yes. It's fairly fun but can take a while for turns to finish the longer it goes on. If someone's in a full scale war with multiple battles per turn it can be a chore for everyone else to wait around for them, since there's no way to "view" the battles like there is in, say, Sword of the Stars. On top of that, the battles against the AI fleets are usually very repetitive curbstomps that are only really fought just to ensure that as few ships are lost as possible.
Even worse, it seems to go out of sync fairly often when players auto-resolve battles.
Well it seems to go out of sync fairly often in general, to be perfectly honest.
I just couldn't get into that last 4X game Distant worlds. The game played without me and I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. Game needed a tutorial.
I liked playing Distant Worlds. I would set the Empire parameters (research focus, fleet compositions, taxation etc), diplomacy, fleet movement, expansion. System improvements were handled on a suggestion basis. Gave me enough to do without miring me in the minutiae of manually managing each of my 1000+ ships.
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2012, 10:21:38 PM
I liked playing Distant Worlds. I would set the Empire parameters (research focus, fleet compositions, taxation etc), diplomacy, fleet movement, expansion. System improvements were handled on a suggestion basis. Gave me enough to do without miring me in the minutiae of manually managing each of my 1000+ ships.
I didn't know how to do that!
I liked a lot of what DW had to offer...but it seemed (or I recall poorly) like ship/fleet movement was like an RTS (ala Warcraft)...which turned me off.
They came out with some expansions. Of course you have to buy them from Matrix games.
Looks interesting. How many planets/fleets do you have to manage? Is it comparable to managing cities/armies in Civ V?
Quote from: Kleves on July 07, 2012, 10:04:23 AM
Looks interesting. How many planets/fleets do you have to manage? Is it comparable to managing cities/armies in Civ V?
roughly, yeah, altough of course you can gather your units into fleets.
My impression so far.
Pros
Old school space 4x, nothing too fancy. Straightforward, short-learning curve.
Addictive, fast-paced. Not too much micro-management.
AI is responsive to my ship designs and builds ships to counter my ships.
The tech tree is pretty well designed. There are real choices involved.
Custom race is here and there are a lot of options available.
Cons
Can't do much in space-battles. Watching the battles get boring really fast.
Too little in-game help. There are a few times when I can't figure out how to do stuff and the in-game explanation isn't helpful.
The tutorial sucks. They basically display a bunch of static screens. No interactive tutorial.
The battles are a big disappointment. I can live with no tactical combat, the phases and cards. First problem is that the cards don't seem to do much. The battle result seems determined before it is fought. If you have more ships, the right kind of ships, the biggest ships, you'll win. There is no useful player input, and no way to influence the result. When it is time to pick a card, I feel like "yawn, is it over yet?" instead of "damn, which card should I choose, hmm, hmmmmm, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, *pulls hair out*".
Second problem is the battle animation. Watching the battle can be, and should be fun. The issue here is that they are all the same. In every battle, the fleets are the same. They fly in the same direction. They fire at each other. The shields and defences glow in different colours. Then, ships begin to explode. It doesn't matter how I design my ships. The same ship class will always look the same in battle. There is no way to tell how the battle is going, until you start to see ships exploding. There is very little variation in between battles. I can't see point defence weapons shooting down missles.
I don't know if I have missed anything, but the only available weapons are missles, kinetic weapons, and beam weapons. That's it. No fighters, black hole generators, gundams.
Ground combat. It is handled like sieges. I can't hire any ground troops. All I can do is install ground attack weapons on my ships to speed up the sieges. I can do without them if I want. I move my fleet to an enemy system to attack it. Press the invade button and the siege begins. There is a circle surrounding every star system, showing the colour of the owner. When I lay siege to a system, part of the circle will change to my colour. The next turn, a bigger share of the circle will show my colour. Until the entire circle shows the right colour, and the system is mine.
Quote from: Syt on July 06, 2012, 10:21:38 PM
I liked playing Distant Worlds. I would set the Empire parameters (research focus, fleet compositions, taxation etc), diplomacy, fleet movement, expansion. System improvements were handled on a suggestion basis. Gave me enough to do without miring me in the minutiae of manually managing each of my 1000+ ships.
I was playing Endless Space but got a trifle fatigued with the expansion limitations, so started playing Distant Worlds again. Then I noticed that there have been two expansions of Distant Worlds. So, I bought them........warning........it did set me back 50 quid. Anyway, I'm playing the fully patched-up Legends version of Distant Worlds atm and having a grand old time :cool:
I'm playing on the vast galaxy mode so it has that feeling of scale,many things are automated of course but I'm still making meaningful decisions that are helping my empire along.........I think they may have got it right.......played about 20 hours of it so far.......
Yes, DW definitely hit a sweet spot for me.
One of the more interesting games I had saw me in a pretty strong alliance going repeatedly to war with another coalition. The battles were tough, and gains minimal: a small colony here or there, destroying mining stations . . .
At some point I had stopped paying attention to my homefront, and after an especially drawn out campaign half my colonies (12 or 15 or so) broke free from my Empire, including my home planet. I was actually looking forward to reclaiming my Empire, but the save game was messed and I had repeatable crash. :(
It is a weird thing. This game does quite a few things wrong or feels incomplete in aspects yet it has that one more turn feel that makes you suddenly turn around and wonder where the last 10 hours went. GalCiv2 on the other hand did just about everything right and I couldnt stand the game.
I have been looking, well...forever? for a good space 4x game that can someday be what MOO2 was, and through in MP to boot.
Quote from: Cecil on July 14, 2012, 12:57:37 AM
It is a weird thing. This game does quite a few things wrong or feels incomplete in aspects yet it has that one more turn feel that makes you suddenly turn around and wonder where the last 10 hours went. GalCiv2 on the other hand did just about everything right and I couldnt stand the game.
It's a bit small though.............huge is a mere 112 systems IIRC :hmm:
I found GalCiv2 to be a yawnfest too.
I liked GalCiv2 well enough - they really improved things with the expansions, esp. with the diplomacy and AI. However, what really turned me off was the space station spam, and that you could plop the stations anywhere, even in the middle of nowhere. Kind of an immersion breaker.
I purchased this on the last Steam sale, and have been having some fun with it. Had a four X urge but Rome Total War wasn't satisfying it.
It is admittedly odd that I can travel the stars from the beginning, but it took me 60 years to see what's on the moon.
SO this is in sale right now for $7.50. Yes, no?
I had some fun with it. It's not overly complex, but fun and stylish. Some of the design choices are weird (why do systems have a maximum of six planets?), but it works out. Good art design, each technology has a symbol that reminds me of the symbols for Alpha Centauri.
The devs are working on a fantasy "sequel", btw.
Yeah, it's like a tower defense game.
You mean Dungeon of the Endless? It's part tower defense, part RTS, part turn based exploration, with some RPG mechanics.
No, I mean Endless Legends.
http://www.amplitude-studios.com/Articles/OUR-NEXT-4X-GAME
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftechzwn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2FEndless-Legend-Exploration.jpg&hash=1cf4858301cd38a2dc3120eb936c4c7e7def026b)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.pcgamer.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F10%2FEndless-Legend.jpg&hash=cc1052bf258ed354b6997db1d9ac2f9bc5c9bdaf)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.pcgamer.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F08%2Fendless-legend-thumb.jpg&hash=ef244fcebde8dd479c3d838a7043a6c7d527fa6c)
It seems "Endless" will be part of all their games. :P
Quote from: Berkut on July 14, 2012, 02:15:52 PM
I have been looking, well...forever? for a good space 4x game that can someday be what MOO2 was, and through in MP to boot.
:( We'll never see the like again, I'm afraid.
I found MoO2 fun, but it was not particularly deep, and the AI sucked. Especially the tactical battles became boring and repetitive after a while. I played it a lot when it was out, but I don't think it was that big a milestone, unlike, say Alpha Centauri.
Quote from: 11B4V on December 27, 2013, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 14, 2012, 02:15:52 PM
I have been looking, well...forever? for a good space 4x game that can someday be what MOO2 was, and through in MP to boot.
:( We'll never see the like again, I'm afraid.
There has been about two dozen clones out in recent years which match the formula. Ok, some of them are not yet ready, but still. Thing is, however excellent MOO2 was in it's time, it has become a weight dragging the genre down.
Quote from: Tamas on December 28, 2013, 04:50:25 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on December 27, 2013, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 14, 2012, 02:15:52 PM
I have been looking, well...forever? for a good space 4x game that can someday be what MOO2 was, and through in MP to boot.
:( We'll never see the like again, I'm afraid.
There has been about two dozen clones out in recent years which match the formula. Ok, some of them are not yet ready, but still. Thing is, however excellent MOO2 was in it's time, it has become a weight dragging the genre down.
That is just...silly.
It is not dragging anything down - the problem is that nobody seems to understand what it is about MOO2 that was so successful, so the successors keep losing the thing that made the game work while trying to improve the formula.
It isn't dragging anything down, the problem is that the developers don't seem to be willing to accept the lessons that should have been learned from it, and from the constant flow of failures that have come after it.
What, in your opinion, was what made MoO2:BaA so successful and special?