How did this not get posted her yet?
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-put-thousands-africans-detention-camp-184419459.html (http://news.yahoo.com/israel-put-thousands-africans-detention-camp-184419459.html)
QuoteIsrael to put thousands of Africans in detention camp
AFP – Fri, Jun 8, 2012
Israel's interior minister said on Friday he hoped to soon start moving tens of thousands of illegal African migrants from Tel Aviv and elsewhere to a detention camp being built and a planned "tent city."
An Israeli court cleared the way on Thursday for the deportation of an estimated 1,500 South Sudanese, after ruling that their lives were no longer threatened in their homeland.
Interior Minister Eli Yishai told public radio 40,000 Sudanese and Eritreans were next in his sights.
"There are still about 15,000 from north Sudan and some 35,000 from Eritrea," he said. "I am not allowed to get them out at the moment."
He said he expected legal obstacles would be removed and that the government was also offering a grant to those prepared to leave voluntarily.
"They are close to being expelled either willingly or against their will," he said. "This is a number that threatens the Jewish identity."
As a first step, he said, illegals would be rounded up and moved to a detention centre being built in southern Israel at a projected cost of 250 million shekels ($6.7 million, 5.4 million euros).
"As soon as the facility is completed, which could be in a few months -- and alongside it we plan to put up a tent city with all the accepted conditions -- then we shall start moving migrants from south Tel Aviv, from (the Red Sea town of) Eilat ... wherever they are."
The rising number of Africans in Israel has hit the headlines in recent weeks, after a spike in racial tensions led to a riot in southern Tel Aviv, where tens of thousands of migrants live.
Interior ministry statistics show that approximately 60,000 African immigrants have entered Israel illegally, the vast majority of them from Sudan and Eritrea.
Some are refugees fleeing persecution in their home nations, but others are economic migrants.
Yishai said he estimated a further 6,000 may have sneaked across the border from Egypt undetected.
"I hope that in the coming months we shall be able to move all the infiltrators to detention facilities and allow Israeli citizens in south Tel Aviv and others to live in a proper way ... in quiet and security," he added.
Israel is building a giant, hi-tech security barrier along its 240-kilometre (150-mile) border with the Egyptian Sinai.
So far 170 kilometres have been erected and the project is due to be completed later this year.
:mellow:
That's not as bad as other of his comments 'most of those people arriving here are Muslims who think the country doesn't belong to us, the white man'.
The Foreign Minister, Lieberman, said that he was close to doing a deal with many African nations on deportation. He said that inflammatory language like Yishai's made diplomacy more difficult. I can't think of any other Israeli cabinet minister that could apply too :lol:
I can't really fault Israel on this one. With today's commodity prices, 1,500,000 pieces of silver is nothing to sneeze at.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 12:31:13 AM
That's not as bad as other of his comments 'most of those people arriving here are Muslims who think the country doesn't belong to us, the white man'.
That's funny - a Jew thinking he is white. :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2012, 01:32:40 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 12:31:13 AM
That's not as bad as other of his comments 'most of those people arriving here are Muslims who think the country doesn't belong to us, the white man'.
That's funny - a Jew thinking he is white. :lol:
On the point of race and specifically Sephardi identity I found this quite interesting:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/07/white-like-me.html
A snippet:
QuoteYishai's comments illustrate the awful paradox of contemporary Sephardi (or more accurately, Mizrahi) identity. As in my own family, Jews from Arab lands were long seen by their haughty Ashkenazi cousins as, well, Arabs. Intra-Jewish bigotry has certainly declined since Israel's early years, when David Ben Gurion said that Israel's Mizrahi immigrants had "no Jewish education." But it persists. A Mizrahi friend who speaks Hebrew with the guttural pronunciation indigenous to the Middle East recently told me that he is routinely hassled at Ben Gurion airport because his Hebrew sounds too much like Arabic. In her fascinating book, We Look Like the Enemy, Rachel Shabi tells of swarthy Mizrahi Jews who in order to avoid being mistaken for Palestinians by the Israeli police begin wearing kippot or Jewish stars.
And historically, Israel's Mizrahi Jews haven't just been deemed Arabs. They've been deemed black. In Israel's early years, Shabi notes, Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews sometimes called their Mizrahi counterparts "Schwarz." In 1971, a group of radical Mizrahi activists even appropriated the term, calling themselves the "Black Panthers."
Now along comes Yishai, the leader of Shas--a party born to give voice to the very Mizrahi Jews long considered black--to declare that Israel must expel its African migrants because Israel is for "us, the white man." (As you might imagine given the gendered language, Yishai doesn't have particularly enlightened ideas about women either).
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
Joos be hatin on the black folk.
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
They get a pass on this one, as nobody enjoys living with a shitload of Sudanese and Eritreans.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2012, 06:51:00 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
They get a pass on this one, as nobody enjoys living with a shitload of Sudanese and Eritreans.
Besides, they stink and eat up all the chickens.
Quote from: 11B4V on June 15, 2012, 06:56:56 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2012, 06:51:00 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
They get a pass on this one, as nobody enjoys living with a shitload of Sudanese and Eritreans.
Besides, they stink and eat up all the chickens.
And they're loud what with all their tribal bunga-bunga shit, and they're similar to Tribbles, born pregnant.
And Seedy says he's a friend of the community, tsk, tsk.
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
Sounds like a poorly managed (operationally and PR-wise) detention and deportation scheme.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 01:41:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2012, 01:32:40 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 12:31:13 AM
That's not as bad as other of his comments 'most of those people arriving here are Muslims who think the country doesn't belong to us, the white man'.
That's funny - a Jew thinking he is white. :lol:
On the point of race and specifically Sephardi identity I found this quite interesting:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/07/white-like-me.html
A snippet:
QuoteYishai's comments illustrate the awful paradox of contemporary Sephardi (or more accurately, Mizrahi) identity. As in my own family, Jews from Arab lands were long seen by their haughty Ashkenazi cousins as, well, Arabs. Intra-Jewish bigotry has certainly declined since Israel's early years, when David Ben Gurion said that Israel's Mizrahi immigrants had "no Jewish education." But it persists. A Mizrahi friend who speaks Hebrew with the guttural pronunciation indigenous to the Middle East recently told me that he is routinely hassled at Ben Gurion airport because his Hebrew sounds too much like Arabic. In her fascinating book, We Look Like the Enemy, Rachel Shabi tells of swarthy Mizrahi Jews who in order to avoid being mistaken for Palestinians by the Israeli police begin wearing kippot or Jewish stars.
And historically, Israel's Mizrahi Jews haven't just been deemed Arabs. They've been deemed black. In Israel's early years, Shabi notes, Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews sometimes called their Mizrahi counterparts "Schwarz." In 1971, a group of radical Mizrahi activists even appropriated the term, calling themselves the "Black Panthers."
Now along comes Yishai, the leader of Shas--a party born to give voice to the very Mizrahi Jews long considered black--to declare that Israel must expel its African migrants because Israel is for "us, the white man." (As you might imagine given the gendered language, Yishai doesn't have particularly enlightened ideas about women either).
No words. :(
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2012, 07:05:07 AM
And Seedy says he's a friend of the community, tsk, tsk.
My community ain't Djibouti, babe.
Quote from: garbon on June 15, 2012, 07:07:02 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 01:41:17 AM
(As you might imagine given the gendered language, Yishai doesn't have particularly enlightened ideas about women either).
No words. :([/quote]
Jews in general don't really have enlightened ideas about women, period. Ever met a female Jewish family-owned business owner? Think about it. No, you haven't.
QuoteYishai said he estimated a further 6,000 may have sneaked across the border from Egypt undetected.
That should be the most alarming fact. IDFail. Christ, it's not like they're defending the Rio Grande. The border ain't that fucking big.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2012, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2012, 07:05:07 AM
And Seedy says he's a friend of the community, tsk, tsk.
My community ain't Djibouti, babe.
Mine is, have a family of six living in corner house of the block :P
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2012, 07:13:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2012, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: katmai on June 15, 2012, 07:05:07 AM
And Seedy says he's a friend of the community, tsk, tsk.
My community ain't Djibouti, babe.
Mine is, have a family of six living in corner house of the block :P
I bet dinnertime smells really spicy-like, too. :P
With all the cumin, chipotle and mexican oregano i use, you bet your ass it does.
lol
That would be the absolute only reason to get hitched with an ethnic chick, like a Latino: bitch gotta be able to cook.
Yeah...deporting Eritrians...that will so end well for them.
Rather than camps, I think they should just "resettle" them in the east.
Quote from: garbon on June 15, 2012, 07:06:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
Sounds like a poorly managed (operationally and PR-wise) detention and deportation scheme.
Lieberman and his ilk don't seem to have the Jewish sensibility we have grown used to and come to love. They are russians through and through.
This is a problem for all European countries. Israel is under considerably more stress than norway or belgium; but seriously; they don't do this to Palestinian prisoners, why do it to Refugees?
Unfortunately, a significant share of Russian Jews are fascist, and subconsciously they regard Holocaust as evil not because genocide is evil, but because killing people like them is evil. That goes for Russian Jews both in Israel and in US.
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 15, 2012, 07:06:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:19:54 AM
I'm sorry but jews rounding up people and putting them in camps is just not right. If any group with a racial or cultural memory should know not to do this it is them.
Sounds like a poorly managed (operationally and PR-wise) detention and deportation scheme.
Lieberman and his ilk don't seem to have the Jewish sensibility we have grown used to and come to love. They are russians through and through.
This is a problem for all European countries. Israel is under considerably more stress than norway or belgium; but seriously; they don't do this to Palestinian prisoners, why do it to Refugees?
In most countries, illegal immigrants get deported. There is no excuse for that minister's casual racism, but generally speaking every country in the world attempts to prevent illegal immigration, and a casual glance at the map will show why Israel is concerned about illegal immigration from the desperately poor bits of Africa. It is a lot easier for an African wishing to flee poverty to get to Israel than to, say, Norway. They can walk. Indeed, you more or less must cross through Israel if you want to walk out of Africa. It's the natural route.
Israel doesn't deport their Palestinian population for the very good reason that the Palestinians in Israel are not illegal immigrants, but citizens. The Jewsh Israelis may not get along with them, there pay be all sorts of communial tensions, but they are not similarly situated. If Israel started to deport Palestinians it would cause a lot more outrage than deporting illegal immigrants from Africa, which is something every country in the world would also do.
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Zombie FDR is disappoint. Concentration camp inmates should be citizens.
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Yeah that's what I meant with my comment. Story seems more motivate by racism of the minister / the fun of bashing on Israel. The US certainly can't talk about detention and deportation of illegal aliens.
Eritreans are a regal and noble people, staffing DIA and doing all sorts of wonderful jobs there. Plus, their melanin will be needed in the gene pool as the globe warms.
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Eritrea is a totalitarian nightmare of epic proportions. It would be more humane to actually keep them in an Israeli prison camp.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2012, 10:11:32 AM
It would be more human to actually keep them in an Israel prison camp.
QFT
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2012, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Eritrea is a totalitarian nightmare of epic proportions. It would be more human to actually keep them in an Israel prison camp.
Eritrea is, by all accounts, a horrible place, like many such in Africa. Unfortunately, Israel is rather small; this tiny country is already contested between the existing population and Palestinians, and is quite unable to handle absorbing the entire population of those suffering horrible conditions in Africa - the more fortunate and enterprising of which would soon arive on the Israeli doorstep if it was known that they were *not* being deported. See any other first-world nations within walking distance?
It would obviously be more humane to ship them somewhere where they could live in peace and that has room for them, like America. How likely is that, though?
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2012, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Eritrea is a totalitarian nightmare of epic proportions. It would be more human to actually keep them in an Israel prison camp.
Eritrea is, by all accounts, a horrible place, like many such in Africa. Unfortunately, Israel is rather small; this tiny country is already contested between the existing population and Palestinians, and is quite unable to handle absorbing the entire population of those suffering horrible conditions in Africa - the more fortunate and enterprising of which would soon arive on the Israeli doorstep if it was known that they were *not* being deported. See any other first-world nations within walking distance?
It would obviously be more humane to ship them somewhere where they could live in peace and that has room for them, like America. How likely is that, though?
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
Would you class the Palestinians as 'the' or 'an' existing population or maybe just a few steps up from these African economic migrants ?
Quote from: mongers on June 15, 2012, 10:49:10 AM
Would you class the Palestinians as 'the' or 'an' existing population or maybe just a few steps up from these African economic migrants ?
Read my previous post - #25 in this thread, in response to the question of why Israel doesn't treat the Palestinians like these Africans.
QuoteIsrael doesn't deport their Palestinian population for the very good reason that the Palestinians in Israel are not illegal immigrants, but citizens. The Jewsh Israelis may not get along with them, there pay be all sorts of communial tensions, but they are not similarly situated. If Israel started to deport Palestinians it would cause a lot more outrage than deporting illegal immigrants from Africa, which is something every country in the world would also do.
Does that answer the question?
The "existing population and Palestinans" quote you bolded was obviously referring to the issues between the Jewish Israelis and the Palestinians (the latter including *all* Palestinians, not just those who are citizens of Israel, but those in Gaza and the WB or in various other ME countries) as to whether Jews should be allowed to live there, should "Palestinians" ever get the upper hand in military terms. We know how the Jewish Israelis handle the situation, as it is the situation right now - Palestinians within Israel are citizens, legally equal albeit suffering some communial discrimination.
Sheesh, I forgot that any mention of these subjects must be accompanied by an essay, or someone will take offense! :lol:
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
I would have no problem with it. :sleep:
I'd draft them into a new Israeli légion étrangère and train them in engineering and construction.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2012, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
I would have no problem with it. :sleep:
That's because you don't think things through.
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
Settle them in camps in the occupied east? Where have I head that before? :hmm:
That would be an actual breach of the Geneva Convention usually used to falsely declare settlements illegal
Quote"the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 15, 2012, 11:20:19 AM
I'd draft them into a new Israeli légion étrangère and train them in engineering and construction.
Put 5 thousand of them through IDF basic training, give them some surplus equipment and send them home asking them to send a post card when they have overthrown the government. From that point on all third world shitholes will cooperate in repatriating refused asylum seekers.
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
Or perhaps Israel could put them in "settlements" on the West Bank? I'm sure that would go down a treat with world opinion. ;)
Settle them in camps in the occupied east? Where have I head that before? :hmm:
That would be an actual breach of the Geneva Convention usually used to falsely declare settlements illegal
Quote"the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".
The beauty of the scheme is that it would
not be a breach of the text you have quoted. The Africans are clearly not part of Israel's "own civilian population" now, are they? They are (depending on whom you ask) illegals or refugees - but they are clearly not Israeli civilian citizens. :lol:
That doesn't stop it from being an asshole move, but it would be mighty clever (if evil) to let the Africans be the Palestinian's problem, and vice-versa.
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 07:55:45 AM
Rather than camps, I think they should just "resettle" them in the east.
Just wanna go on record as having said this joke before Malthus. :mad:
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 07:55:45 AM
Rather than camps, I think they should just "resettle" them in the east.
Just wanna go on record as having said this joke before Malthus. :mad:
Hey, that was Viking stealing your thunder, not me. Don't let the nested quotes fool you. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 07:55:45 AM
Rather than camps, I think they should just "resettle" them in the east.
Just wanna go on record as having said this joke before Malthus. :mad:
Hey, that was Viking stealing your thunder, not me. Don't let the nested quotes fool you. ;)
I wasn't joking, I was pointing out that placing the refugees in camps in the west bank would be breaking the geneva convention the israelis are accused of breaking when civilians settle on the west bank.
Quote from: Viking on June 15, 2012, 04:24:03 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2012, 07:55:45 AM
Rather than camps, I think they should just "resettle" them in the east.
Just wanna go on record as having said this joke before Malthus. :mad:
Hey, that was Viking stealing your thunder, not me. Don't let the nested quotes fool you. ;)
I wasn't joking, I was pointing out that placing the refugees in camps in the west bank would be breaking the geneva convention the israelis are accused of breaking when civilians settle on the west bank.
He's referring to this:
QuoteSettle them in camps in the occupied east? Where have I head that before?
In any event, it would not be a breach, because the Africans are not Israeli civilians.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 15, 2012, 12:31:13 AM
The Foreign Minister, Lieberman, said that he was close to doing a deal with many African nations on deportation. He said that inflammatory language like Yishai's made diplomacy more difficult. I can't think of any other Israeli cabinet minister that could apply too :lol:
No kidding - if Lieberman is calling someone out for being inflammatory, you've got stellar level combustion going on.
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Unfortunately, I can't agree. Israel is a signatory to refugee conventions and is obligated to address asylum issues on a case-by-case basis; not toss out entire national groups based on a single court ruling. This is kangaroo justice from a country where the courts are the last bastion of a fraying liberal democracy. And setting up mass deportation camps - WTF? The entire Israeli cabinet should be forced watch Exodus over and over until they manage to remove the collective heads from their collective rectums.
Paul Newman can serve the popcorn.
Just release them into the Gaza Strip.
Wow. That is fucked up.
Thank God I live in the Jewish homeland.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2012, 05:05:54 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2012, 09:24:24 AM
To my mind, aside from the minsiter's appalling racism, this isn't much of a story.
Unfortunately, I can't agree. Israel is a signatory to refugee conventions and is obligated to address asylum issues on a case-by-case basis; not toss out entire national groups based on a single court ruling. This is kangaroo justice from a country where the courts are the last bastion of a fraying liberal democracy. And setting up mass deportation camps - WTF? The entire Israeli cabinet should be forced watch Exodus over and over until they manage to remove the collective heads from their collective rectums.
Paul Newman can serve the popcorn.
Perhaps there is more to the story than in the news cited in the OP, but it sounds like the court has ruled that some thousand or so persons are not "refugees". The Minister claims to want to deport more, but that the courts are preventing him.
Maybe the court ruling is unjust - I dunno, given I have not read it.
Sounds in other words like the system is more or less functioning. The courts are preventing the minister from deporting whom he would, while stating that others are not refugees.
As for setting up mass deportation camps, once the legal decision is made to deport someone, how is a camp worse than any other jail or detention?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2012, 07:33:25 AM
lol
That would be the absolute only reason to get hitched with an ethnic chick, like a Latino: bitch gotta be able to cook.
White girls are for squares.
Quote from: Scipio on June 15, 2012, 07:02:42 PM
Thank God I live in the Jewish homeland.
The community of practicing lawyers? :hmm: