WTF you Limey bastards (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18234930)
Hey if you are going to leave France you could do worse.
Besides the Limeys leave lots of space because something like a quarter million of them live in France.
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
And going to the UK will help them escape that?
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:07:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
And going to the UK will help them escape that?
Yes, well that's how Cleo Soazandry sees it.
There are as many Russians in London too. Maybe even more.
Well, it must be underlined that French cities do tend to be rather small.
Which is odd.
Quote from: Tyr on May 30, 2012, 10:15:39 AM
Well, it must be underlined that French cities do tend to be rather small.
Which is odd.
It could just be old definitions of city limits. The metro areas might be a better representation. It is certainly like that in the older parts of the US.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:05:21 AM
Hey if you are going to leave France you could do worse.
Besides the Limeys leave lots of space because something like a quarter million of them live in France.
I think the Limeys living in France get the better deal then the French in London.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
I think there might be something to the hypothesis that ambitious young Frenchman boys and girls feel stifled in the French system and seek their fortunes elsewhere.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:07:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
And going to the UK will help them escape that?
London is a country within a country, especially inner London. I don't know what the percentage of the population in zones1-2 are actually from the capital but I'm guessing its way less than 50%. Not necessarily immigrants but lost of folk from other parts of the UK.
Meant to also say that if your a furriner, you get a free pass on the class thing. The big indicator of class for the English is accent.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 10:45:50 AM
I think there might be something to the hypothesis that ambitious young Frenchman boys and girls feel stifled in the French system and seek their fortunes elsewhere.
The Grandes Ecoles system will do that. It is like the Ivy League only more so.
Of all the languages I hear on my commute, I hear French very seldom, maybe once a week, and more often than not it's a Francophone African dialect.
The most heard are Polish, Russian and Pikey, but that may be because they all talk a lot by nature not just due to number.
Quote from: Gups on May 30, 2012, 11:00:38 AM
Meant to also say that if your a furriner, you get a free pass on the class thing. The big indicator of class for the English is accent.
Ah good point.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:29:44 AM
It could just be old definitions of city limits. The metro areas might be a better representation. It is certainly like that in the older parts of the US.
I'm not sure. I think French cities are very small and provincial, except for Paris.
There's loads of Spaniards in my area now.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 30, 2012, 11:43:09 AM
There's loads of Spaniards in my area now.
They have to find work somewhere.
It still just makes no sense to me how you can have a tiny birth rate, early retirement, and yet have no jobs for young people. I mean more people should be leaving the work force every year than entering yet...
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 30, 2012, 11:43:09 AM
I'm not sure. I think French cities are very small and provincial, except for Paris.
:yes: :yes:
They want the evil anglophone economics?
Quote from: Gups on May 30, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:07:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
And going to the UK will help them escape that?
London is a country within a country, especially inner London. I don't know what the percentage of the population in zones1-2 are actually from the capital but I'm guessing its way less than 50%. Not necessarily immigrants but lost of folk from other parts of the UK.
Good point. I've always been the only Londoner in all the London flatshares I've lived in.
It's really frustrating having to explain to n00bs the territorial divisions within the capital; for example, I had an hour-long argument with a guy originally from
Cambridgeshire, who now lives in trendy east London like they all do, when I tried to explain that someone from Kensal Rise is not a North Londoner. "BUT IT'S NORTH OF THE RIVER!!"
Quote from: Gups on May 30, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:07:57 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 30, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
French people might have beheaded most of their nobles, it's still as fairly entrenched class system if the french who emigrated to Quebec are any indication.
And going to the UK will help them escape that?
London is a country within a country, especially inner London. I don't know what the percentage of the population in zones1-2 are actually from the capital but I'm guessing its way less than 50%. Not necessarily immigrants but lost of folk from other parts of the UK.
Yeah, coming from a region of the UK just 100 miles from central London, I'm having difficulty thinking of a single member of my peer group who hasn't lived and worked in London at some stage.
It is kind of frightening how both Britain and France have these vast combinations of DC, New York, and LA all rolled into one dominating their countries. Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are, the dominance of Paris and London over every aspect of life must be almost complete.
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are
:yeahright:
Quote from: Gups on May 30, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
London is a country within a country, especially inner London. I don't know what the percentage of the population in zones1-2 are actually from the capital but I'm guessing its way less than 50%. Not necessarily immigrants but lost of folk from other parts of the UK.
Quote from: Warspite on May 30, 2012, 02:49:47 PM
Good point. I've always been the only Londoner in all the London flatshares I've lived in.
It's really frustrating having to explain to n00bs the territorial divisions within the capital; for example, I had an hour-long argument with a guy originally from Cambridgeshire, who now lives in trendy east London like they all do, when I tried to explain that someone from Kensal Rise is not a North Londoner. "BUT IT'S NORTH OF THE RIVER!!"
The same applies to Paris and applied to me in Paris and I only was born and living there for most of my life before I moved to Frankfurt. Of course, I still return every now and then to Paris.
As for the noobs or provincials lots of exampls e.g "Île-de-France" is the region, Paris is the city. The concept of
Francilien (people from Île-de-France) seems pretty much unknown by provincials. When the countryside starts, it's no longer Paris, not even the Greater Paris.
I wonder which overseas city has the biggest British population? Dubai? :hmm:
My guess woudl be one of the Aussie cities - probably Perth. If not, maybe NYC
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PMIt is kind of frightening how both Britain and France have these vast combinations of DC, New York, and LA all rolled into one dominating their countries. Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are, the dominance of Paris and London over every aspect of life must be almost complete.
I think London and Paris are pretty resented. But I think a lot of British cities have quite strong senses of identity so they don't feel quite so dominated.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 31, 2012, 05:46:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PMIt is kind of frightening how both Britain and France have these vast combinations of DC, New York, and LA all rolled into one dominating their countries. Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are, the dominance of Paris and London over every aspect of life must be almost complete.
I think London and Paris are pretty resented. But I think a lot of British cities have quite strong senses of identity so they don't feel quite so dominated.
I think you have that in any country where you have a strong center of political/cultural/economic life - e.g. Vienna in Austria. In Germany it's not as pronounced as the country is much more de-centralized.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 31, 2012, 01:18:58 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 30, 2012, 10:53:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are
:yeahright:
He's completely right.
I'm not sure how can make that claim without being whiny. Let's look at each.
NYC - 8mil (city proper) and 19 mil with metro area (note New York state has only 19mil so comparing that to city proper - effectively 40% of the state resides in NYC)
Los Angeles - 4 mil (city proper) and 13 mil with metro area
DC - 600k (city proper) and 5.5mil with metro area
If you add up those metro areas, you're looking at the ~1/8th of the total US population in the orbit of 3 of our most important cities. Why shouldn't they have a strong influence?
Here's an additional fun fact from wiki:
QuoteNew York City and its eight suburban counties (excluding those in New Jersey, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania) have a combined population of 13,209,006 people, or 68.42% of the state's population.
Oh and one more:
QuoteLos Angeles County alone is more populous than 42 individual U.S. states
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 31, 2012, 05:46:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PMIt is kind of frightening how both Britain and France have these vast combinations of DC, New York, and LA all rolled into one dominating their countries. Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are, the dominance of Paris and London over every aspect of life must be almost complete.
I think London and Paris are pretty resented. But I think a lot of British cities have quite strong senses of identity so they don't feel quite so dominated.
Neither of these cities identifies itself as a single sprawling conurbation, they remain a series of villages with their own town centres, local identities and amenities.
That's pretty much true of London, except that I think we do have an identity - not as strong as (say) scousers but there is one nontheles.
Nt so sure about Paris. I get the impresssion that it is much more divided than London (by that inner ring road).
Quote from: garbon on May 31, 2012, 09:25:20 AM
I'm not sure how can make that claim without being whiny. Let's look at each.
That was tongue in cheek garbon. Those cities dominate American life to a huge degree and transmit their values to the rest of us through their domination of political, cultural, and economic life. They have a not-unjustified arrogance...which is the most annoying kind of arrogance :P
Quote from: Valmy on May 31, 2012, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 31, 2012, 09:25:20 AM
I'm not sure how can make that claim without being whiny. Let's look at each.
That was tongue in cheek garbon. Those cities dominate American life to a huge degree and transmit their values to the rest of us through their domination of political, cultural, and economic life. They have a not-unjustified arrogance...which is the most annoying kind of arrogance :P
:lol: :D :hug:
Quote from: Gups on May 31, 2012, 09:56:15 AM
Nt so sure about Paris. I get the impresssion that it is much more divided than London (by that inner ring road).
Are you taking about the peripherique? That's the outer ring road, and is the border between Paris and the suburbs.
Yep, that's it. Scared the shit out of me when I was driving on it last Summer.
We'd call an outer ringroad one that goes round the whole of a city (for London the M25) an inner ring road one that separates the suburbs from the city proper (for us the north and south circulars).
OPOur circulars are permeable, busy but normal streets with shops and houses. The peripherique looked pretty difficult to cross - it seemed something or a boundary.
You are right. It actually marks the outer limits of the no man's land surrounding the walls of Paris (Thiers' Walls). The walls proper were situated on what are now the boulevards des Maréchaux, a kind of inner ring about 100 m from the périphérique highway. When the walls started to be disused in the early 1880s., the no man's land became slums (la zone) - i.e., the kind of property and people who are easily expropriated. Which they were, when the périphérique was started.
There were some efforts to create a Greater Paris under Sarko at last but right now the only part agreed on is the suburb-to-suburb transportation.
And yes, the périphérique extérieur feels like a barrier specially when it divides from the poorer suburbs. Not that much a barrier if you go from Paris intra-muros to Levallois-Perret as some Languishites did some years ago.
The périphérique intérieur being the Boulevards des Maréchaux used by the PC buses and new trams.
The closest thing to the M25 would be the Francilienne that has yet to be finished in its west part.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFichier%3AParis_London_ring_roads_comparison.JPG&hash=756afa17490ee67a5178654b2798fd661858fe02)
There's another ring road, the A 86 closer to the périphérique extérieur (between 2 and 7 km from it) and another project beyond Île-de-France http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_contournement_de_Paris (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_contournement_de_Paris)