SVT (Swedish national television) is going to broadcast a program tonight revealing private religious advice given to women by Swedish imams, which conflicts sharply with the image projected to outsiders. What a shock.
Original article in Swedish: http://svt.se/ug/muslimska-ledare-uppmanar-kvinnor-till-underkastelse
And badly translated by Google:
QuoteMuslim leader urges women to subservience
Hidden camera reveals mixed messages
Externally, the Muslim leaders in Swedish mosques careful to keep a woman's and man's equal. Mission auditing hidden recordings give a different picture - then asked the woman opposite to total submission.
All Swedish congregations who may have access to state subsidies for religious communities, while taking on the role of "maintaining and strengthening the society's basic values."
This means, among other things, that communities must work for equality between men and women and that they should work against discrimination, violence and brutality.
Mandate review, with a hidden camera visited mosques in different parts of the country to find out how this is enforced in reality.
Assignment audit staff was equipped with a hidden camera and sent out with the same four questions to some of Sweden's most influential mosques.
All supported by grants
They visited seven mosques and called to three of their questions.
Half of the mosques have contributions from governments, others are supported by municipal funds.
The assignment was to find out what advice mosques give to a woman who wonders if her husband can marry more than one woman and the woman can decide over her own body and deny a man sex. They also tried to find out if a man beat his wife. And if he hits, the woman contacted the police?
And the answers in obscure recordings - they reveal that it is far from the official picture mosques want to give out and the values of the Representatives communicate when they are unaware that the calls are recorded.
Not recommend that you contact the police
Mosque in Stockholm in Stockholm regarded as Sweden's most prestigious and well attended mosque. It is to this mosque government representatives go when they want to meet with representatives of all Swedish Muslims. Most recently in February was a civilian Minister Stefan Attefall with and attended the Friday prayers.
When the assignment audit staff with a hidden camera set their questions to the mosque's counselors, he replies that a man has the right to marry four women, provided he treats them fairly.
He also says that she can not refuse her husband sex, not even when her husband beat her and married another woman.
And he discouraged her from contacting police.
- If you call the police, it may be a bit difficult. Do you know why? The police will take him into custody, said the imam.
Problems must be solved within the family
In only two of the ten mosques, the women answered that they should go to police. Two leaves it to the woman to decide for yourself. The other six mosques advise, and says that any problems will be resolved within the family.
In a mosque in Malmö belittled beaten even as the woman talks about. The man that women talk with shows on his own arm how it's okay to hit, to a certain limit.
- You should never, never, never think that you should go to the police, he said.
In nine of the mosques had orders audit staff know that the Koran - under certain conditions - give a man the right to marry multiple women.
Have sex against their will
In six of the mosques turn Representatives, before the hidden camera, fixed to a Muslim woman, according to the Quran is obliged to have sex - even against their will.
Mohammad Fazlhashemi, professor of intellectual history and self-believing Muslim, believes that the responses women receive is an expression of a patriarchal tradition.
- Relationships between women and men should not be guided by this simply, he says.
He says that in Sweden and elsewhere in Europe, more and more started to question the more conservative, ultra-orthodox and patriarchal interpretation tradition.
- I think there is an overwhelming majority who do not want this type of imam, said Mohammad Fazlhashemi.
How much of the 400 000 Muslims in Sweden, do you agree with the imams who say you should resolve it in the family and the woman is obliged to have sex, and accept her husband marrying another woman?
- Very difficult to say, but purely spontaneous, I would say that a small fraction would agree to such a humiliation, he says.
European naivete is so adorable sometimes.
It's what is bound to happen when two contradictory dogmas collide.
I'm against dogma fighting.
meh, hardly a revelation. This kind of thing gets reported all the time in Britain at least, it sells well to the usual crowd so such documentaries keep being produced.
Quote from: Tyr on May 16, 2012, 07:56:57 AM
meh, hardly a revelation. This kind of thing gets reported all the time in Britain at least, it sells well to the usual crowd so such documentaries keep being produced.
it IS ridicoulous though, that the state finances propaganda going against the established values and laws of the state.
Quote from: Tyr on May 16, 2012, 07:56:57 AM
meh, hardly a revelation. This kind of thing gets reported all the time in Britain at least, it sells well to the usual crowd so such documentaries keep being produced.
Opinions of people in Sweden get reported all the time in Britain?
This would be completely uninteresting except for the fact the hippy Swedes fund these guys with tax money. Heh.
On Topic, I still mean to see the movie "Kuma"
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/kuma-berlin-film-review-292613
QuoteDirector Umut Dag's quiet drama, which opened the Berlin Panorama, tells the story of a village girl who is recruited as a second wife.
An innocent village girl is secretly recruited as the second wife, or kuma, of a Turkish pater familias in Vienna, with a practical eye to having her take over the household when his sick wife dies of cancer. The perverse simplicity of the domestic drama in Kuma, a cleverly done, not overly ambitious first feature by talented young Austrian-Kurdish director Umut Dag, is heightened by young Begum Akkaya's lovely and mysterious performance in her first major role. Making its weird premise seem plausible, this quiet drama, which opened the Berlin Panorama, is well-positioned for both fest and some art house dates.
If it's hard for Westerners to swallow the idea of co-existing wives, one suspects modern Muslims have a few problems, too. Perhaps this is why Ayse's (Akkaya) wedding to a nice, anonymous white-haired gent is passed off as a much more appropriate marriage to his handsome son Hasan. Only the family knows the truth: The pretty teenager is being shipped off to Austria as the old geyser's second wife. No motivation is offered to explain why she agrees to such a thing, and no money is seen changing hands. The opening wedding scene is all about village life and obedience to tradition.
In Vienna, the family must adjust to the new situation. The most gung-ho to have Ayse move in is Fatma (Nihal Koldas), the mother, who is undergoing chemotherapy and will soon be operated on. She sees the frail girl as her care-taking replacement for her husband and five children when she's no longer around. Still, preparing a sofa bed in the living room for the bride's deflowering is a delicate matter, and there's no getting around the awkwardness of those creaking springs as the family lays awake in the small apartment, listening. Before long, Ayse is pregnant.
The children's reactions (two are already grown up) provide a reality check on the surreal situation. Though they still wear tightly wound headscarves out of doors, the two younger girls appear to have been born in Austria and to have absorbed many Western European values, which don't include second wives for Daddy. With his perpetually downcast eyes and guilty look, Hasan has his own reasons for agreeing to the fake marriage, revealed in an affecting tete-a-tete with Ayse.
Just when things are settling down, a major plot twist sends the story rocketing off in a new direction. The second part of the film splits wide open in the kinky way Austrian films tend to do, raising all sorts of embarrassing social questions no character is prepared to answer. Finally, after all Ayse's Cinderella-like masochism and self-sacrifice and the family's outrageous bad faith, tensions explode in a highly satisfying, knock-down fight that sends genuine old Turkish values flying out the window.
The fine cast is exceptional in creating a closed-circuit world in which hidden passions can explode. Koldas' mature performance is full of unspoken, repressed feelings, making an ideal foil for Akkaya's blank-faced country goodness and apparently will-less compliance. The camera and tech work are modest no-frills.
QuoteJust when things are settling down, a major plot twist sends the story rocketing off in a new direction. The second part of the film splits wide open in the kinky way Austrian films tend to do, raising all sorts of embarrassing social questions no character is prepared to answer. Finally, after all Ayse's Cinderella-like masochism and self-sacrifice and the family's outrageous bad faith, tensions explode in a highly satisfying, knock-down fight that sends genuine old Turkish values flying out the window.
What was just said here exactly? :huh:
On the *other* hand, is it right to be so pussy-whipped as to simply dismiss the notion of second wives out of hand? :hmm:
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 16, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
On the *other* hand, is it right to be so pussy-whipped as to simply dismiss the notion of second wives out of hand? :hmm:
Is it being "pussy-whipped" to point out that bigamy is illegal in this country?
Quote from: Barrister on May 16, 2012, 08:58:39 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 16, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
On the *other* hand, is it right to be so pussy-whipped as to simply dismiss the notion of second wives out of hand? :hmm:
Is it being "pussy-whipped" to point out that bigamy is illegal in this country?
Perhaps, but it would without question be a pretty square response to a comment such as the one I just made.
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2012, 08:11:22 AM
QuoteJust when things are settling down, a major plot twist sends the story rocketing off in a new direction. The second part of the film splits wide open in the kinky way Austrian films tend to do, raising all sorts of embarrassing social questions no character is prepared to answer. Finally, after all Ayse's Cinderella-like masochism and self-sacrifice and the family's outrageous bad faith, tensions explode in a highly satisfying, knock-down fight that sends genuine old Turkish values flying out the window.
What was just said here exactly? :huh:
Drama ensues.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 16, 2012, 09:11:36 AM
Quote from: Barrister on May 16, 2012, 08:58:39 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 16, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
On the *other* hand, is it right to be so pussy-whipped as to simply dismiss the notion of second wives out of hand? :hmm:
Is it being "pussy-whipped" to point out that bigamy is illegal in this country?
Perhaps, but it would without question be a pretty square response to a comment such as the one I just made.
There are people for whom the illegality of something makes it necessary, by definition, to " simply dismiss the notion.... out of hand." If one considers notions that are curently illegal, if could lead to (gasp)
changing the law! :shutup:
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2012, 08:02:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 16, 2012, 07:56:57 AM
meh, hardly a revelation. This kind of thing gets reported all the time in Britain at least, it sells well to the usual crowd so such documentaries keep being produced.
Opinions of people in Sweden get reported all the time in Britain?
This would be completely uninteresting except for the fact the hippy Swedes fund these guys with tax money. Heh.
Yes.
Call the other three mistresses and you're good. Owe them much less then if they were Muslim wives too.
Swedes are retarded. Film at 11.
Why would any religious institution be receiving $$$
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 06:39:47 PM
Why would any religious institution be receiving $$$
It's the Eurotard way.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 06:39:47 PM
Why would any religious institution be receiving $$$
So the priests won't say some bad shit about the government, to the 8 people who visit their church.
Quote from: Valmy on May 16, 2012, 08:11:22 AM
QuoteJust when things are settling down, a major plot twist sends the story rocketing off in a new direction. The second part of the film splits wide open in the kinky way Austrian films tend to do, raising all sorts of embarrassing social questions no character is prepared to answer. Finally, after all Ayse's Cinderella-like masochism and self-sacrifice and the family's outrageous bad faith, tensions explode in a highly satisfying, knock-down fight that sends genuine old Turkish values flying out the window.
What was just said here exactly? :huh:
You sound like you never read a review of an arthouse movie written by a liberal critic. :huh:
Quote from: Barrister on May 16, 2012, 08:58:39 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 16, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
On the *other* hand, is it right to be so pussy-whipped as to simply dismiss the notion of second wives out of hand? :hmm:
Is it being "pussy-whipped" to point out that bigamy is illegal in this country?
I don't remember - have you always been devoid of any sense of humor and irony, or is this a recent development? You are recently acting like a completely humorless square. Everything alright in your private life?
This could never happen in America. In our country, the women would castrate the man or kill them in their sleep.