Burn Romania to the Ground! :ultra: :ultra: :ultra:
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/30/10945434-hero-doctor-saves-babies-in-romania-corruption
QuoteBy The Associated Press
Dr. Catalin Cirstoveanu runs a cardio unit with state-of-the-art equipment at a Bucharest children's hospital. But not a single child has been treated in the year-and-a-half since it opened.
The reason?
Medical staff he needs to bring in to run the machinery would have expected bribes.
So Cirstoveanu has launched a lonely crusade to save babies who come to him for care: He flies them to Western Europe on budget flights so they can be treated by doctors who don't demand kickbacks.
That's what Cirstoveanu did last week for 13-day-old Catalin, who needed heart surgery. Cirstoveanu packed a small bag, slipped emergency breathing equipment into the baby carrier and caught a cheap flight to Italy, where doctors were waiting to perform the surgery.
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The operation was successful. Two days later, though, a 3-week-old baby that Cirstoveanu whisked away to the same clinic in northwestern Italy — with tubes piercing her tiny frame — died before she was able to have lymph gland surgery.
"I was very worried it wouldn't work," said Cirstoveanu. "But in Romania, she would have died anyway."
The soft-spoken Cirstoveanu is fighting an exhausting and largely solitary battle against a culture of corruption that's so embedded in Romania that surgeons demand bribes to save infants' lives and it's even necessary to slip cash to a nurse to get your sheets changed.
It's one of the reasons why the country's infant mortality rate is more than double the European Union average, with one in 100 children not reaching their first birthday.
"To be honest, it's so deeply rooted into our system that it's really difficult to eliminate," Health Minister Ladislau Ritli said in an interview with The Associated Press.
Officially, the new cardio unit that Cirstoveanu runs at the Marie Curie children's hospital isn't functioning because jobs have not been filled. The real reason appears to be that Cirstoveanu has banned staff from taking bribes. That means that high-tech machinery lies idle because qualified experts do not bother to apply for jobs, as they know they cannot supplement their incomes with bribes.
The zero-tolerance policy to corruption makes for a grueling work schedule for Cirstoveanu, who needs to shuttle babies abroad for surgery — and take care of them on the flight. During the two-hour flight with the girl who died, Cirstoveanu fixed tubes, sedated her and hand-pumped oxygen to keep her alive.
In the less than 24 hours Cirstoveanu had in Bucharest between returning from Catalin's trip and departing with the little girl, he even squeezed in a shift at the Marie Curie clinic.
Endemic corruption
Patients in Romania routinely discuss the "stock market" rate for bribes. Surgeons can get hundreds of dollars and upward for an operation, while anesthetists get roughly a third of that, depending also on what a patient can afford. Nurses receive a few dollars from patients each time they administer medications or put in drips. Getting a certificate stamped to have an operation abroad can easily cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars if you ask the wrong doctor.
While the Romanian state appears unwilling to do anything, it often ends up footing the bill.
At the Marie Curie unit, Catalin's operation would have cost $2,700 to $4,000 without bribes. Romanian state health insurance is paying 10 times that for his operation in Italy — a small fortune in a country where the average monthly salary is about $460 after tax.
Many disillusioned doctors have abandoned the country, which spends just 4 percent of its gross domestic product in health care — about half of the percentage of GDP spent by Western European countries.
Last year, some 2,800 Romanian doctors — discouraged by the antiquated and corrupt health system and low wages — left to work in Western Europe, according to the Romanian College of Doctors.
"Ideally, we would have decent salaries and nobody would be tempted to accept informal payments," said the Ritli, the health minister. "And the population would be educated so people would believe that this is not the only way to get proper health care."
Bribes across Romania accounted for some $1 million a day in 2005, according to a World Bank report; more recent estimates are not available. The culture of bribes — or "informal payments" as they're commonly known — is tacitly accepted.
But anger is rising. One of Marie Curie's donors, Procter & Gamble, has several times gone back to the hospital and the Health Ministry to ask questions about when the unit will start functioning.
The tragic plight of Romanian children is nothing new.
Communist legacy
In a misguided effort to boost Romania's then-population of 23 million, Communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu banned birth control and abortion, which led to thousands of infants being left in orphanages in harrowing conditions broadcast around the world after his execution in 1989.
Nearly a quarter-century later, the country's shortcomings are again being seen through the gaze of children and powerless parents trapped in a web of corruption.
For those whose children die shortly after birth, grief is magnified when they do not receive a birth certificate or even see their babies alive. Angela Vasile, whose baby daughter, Cristina, only lived one day, saw her infant just once after she'd died, lying on a metal table.
She was then put in a ward of nursing mothers, adding to her anguish.
Bianca Brad, a Romanian celebrity, spoke out publicly about the pain of losing her baby at birth — calling the situation "criminal." She founded the "EMMA Association" to help grieving parents, offering support for those who do not receive psychological counseling and remain locked in years of grief.
Yet remarkable things are happening at the Marie Curie Hospital. Cirstoveanu is personally overseeing the survival of Baby Andrei, an 8-month-old Roma baby born to underage parents. His intestines are almost nonexistent.
The tiny infant who weighs about 4.4 pounds with limbs that look like gnarled twigs was given only days to live. His bright eyes, alert gaze and lively personality have endeared him to all staff who comfort him in their arms as much as they can outside of his incubator.
Andrei can only have lifesaving surgery in the United States — and a fee of hundreds of thousands of dollars is proving prohibitive. Nurses are so fond of the bright boy that they are playing the state lottery in an attempt to raise funds for his surgery.
Even in this grim setting, there are signs that doctors are mobilizing in a bid to make things better.
Anca Mandache, a child heart surgeon, left her career in France to offer her services to the Marie Curie hospital, taking a salary one tenth of what she would have earned there. Others also are expressing an interest in working at the clinic
Cirstoveanu, who also flies sick babies to Germany and Austria, says he feels "ashamed" that he has to go to the lengths he does to save children, but talks with pride of the moment he sees the joy of relieved parents whose babies survive.
They are in awe of his dedication.
"Cirstoveanu is more than a hero — he is a god for us and the children," said Gheorghe Meliusoiu, Catalin's 28-year-old woodcutter father. "If there were more like him, many lives would be saved."
*shrug* Continental Europe.
This is why I hate a culture of tipping. :p
It used to be like that in HK 3 or 4 decades ago. They fixed it by a combination of new emergency laws on corruption, a dedicated law enforcement unit, ruthless enforcement, and raising civil service salaries.
Is it really such a good idea to have more Romanians survive? :hmm:
A co-worker (her grandparents live in Bosnia) has told similar stories. Her granny has a heart condition, and the doctors keep postponing her appointments, and in fact might cancel them if you don't grease their palms.
Re: Romania - given my experiences with some Romanian doctors I'm not terribly surprised. One guy came and expected to be paid after five years. He hadn't received any money from us for whatever reason and now insisted on being paid. As it was, he ended up being overpaid but refused to retrn any cash. I googled his name, and it turned out that he was under corruption charges form his time as MP and was supposed to have pocketed hundreds of thousands of EUR in "incentives" for securing government contracts to medical suppliers.
Also, in the early 2000s, my old German employer was providing the steel for a new hospital in Bucharest. The main contractor in Hungary was the brother in law of the then health minister. :hmm:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 31, 2012, 04:55:10 AM
Burn Romania to the Ground! :ultra: :ultra: :ultra:
I don't think that's possible, Tim. :hmm:
You're wrong, some of us are capable of imagining things darker than robots fighting dinosaurs. :P
This doesn't surprise me ONE BIT.
Comme-il-faut over there, from what I've heard.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 31, 2012, 06:24:48 AM
You're wrong, some of us are capable of imagining things darker than robots fighting dinosaurs. :P
How could something that cool be considered dark? :huh:
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 31, 2012, 07:18:58 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 31, 2012, 06:24:48 AM
You're wrong, some of us are capable of imagining things darker than robots fighting dinosaurs. :P
How could something that cool be considered dark? :huh:
It's not...
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Poor Dr. Antonescu only gets to buy a new Mercedes every other year.
Quote from: Tyr on March 31, 2012, 05:04:56 AM
This is why I hate a culture of tipping. :p
What does cow tipping got to do with this?
Has anyone actually ever tipped a cow? Does that really work?
Back when I was living on a farm, I was once or twice tipped by cows. It works that way, at least.
Quote from: Lucidor on March 31, 2012, 06:58:27 AM
Comme-il-faut over there, from what I've heard.
Yeah. The daughter of the Romanian lady that cleans my flat had a stove blow in her face. At first they would do nothing for her. The mother had to get a flight back to Romania and buy her way to a proper treatment.
Quote from: Iormlund on March 31, 2012, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: Lucidor on March 31, 2012, 06:58:27 AM
Comme-il-faut over there, from what I've heard.
Yeah. The daughter of the Romanian lady that cleans my flat had a stove blow in her face. At first they would do nothing for her. The mother had to get a flight back to Romania and buy her way to a proper treatment.
My ex's brother went six or seven times to the doctor with a typical DVT in his leg, but noone listened, nor cared.
DVT?
Quote from: Ideologue on March 31, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Poor Dr. Antonescu only gets to buy a new Mercedes every other year.
Average Romanian doctor's salary: 400 EUR/month (2008).
http://books.google.com/books?id=ag734psQUB0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 01, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 31, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Poor Dr. Antonescu only gets to buy a new Mercedes every other year.
Average Romanian doctor's salary: 400 EUR/month (2008).
http://books.google.com/books?id=ag734psQUB0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
All fucking M.D.s must fucking hang.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 01, 2012, 06:29:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 01, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 31, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Poor Dr. Antonescu only gets to buy a new Mercedes every other year.
Average Romanian doctor's salary: 400 EUR/month (2008).
http://books.google.com/books?id=ag734psQUB0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
All fucking M.D.s must fucking hang.
hey now!! :(
They should get Obama to reform it for them.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 02, 2012, 11:24:50 AM
They should get Obama to reform it for them.
If they go to a free market system competition will reduce the bribes.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 01, 2012, 06:29:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 01, 2012, 05:46:45 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 31, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
More seriously, from what I've heard from colleagues especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Russia, Ukraine is that medical staff in those countries are severely underpaid for what they do. Particularly thosenot working in private practice but in public hospitals barely get by on their salaries which is why bribes are so attractive. A lot of them don't use the extra money for a luxurious lifestyle but to buy a bit more than the bare necessities.
Poor Dr. Antonescu only gets to buy a new Mercedes every other year.
Average Romanian doctor's salary: 400 EUR/month (2008).
http://books.google.com/books?id=ag734psQUB0C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
All fucking M.D.s must fucking hang.
They're actually not as bad as JDs, and lawyers in general. They're certainly less damaging to society.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 01, 2012, 06:29:40 PMAll fucking M.D.s must fucking hang.
What's this all about?
It's simply adaptation without the need to be too "libertarian" about it. Theoretically, the system is free, which of course is a great thing for the socialists, poor, old people and politicians. Practically, the system costs money and everyone knows this since everybody just bribes anyone that works in a state-run hospital: doctors, nurses, cleaning ladies, even the one that runs the elevator.
In this country you can pretty much do anything except taking care of the medical system. It was tried at the beginning of the year to develop a healthier system (transforming bribes into real costs); the result: street revolts, some even violent. And this in a country that simply doesn't revolt. For anything.
Fun fact: the most popular man in Romania today is a Jordanian. His achievements: he runs an emergency medical service and was the first one that protested against the new laws. His reason: was bad for his OWN business. The result: well, you can see here...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstorage0.dms.mpinteractiv.ro%2Fmedia%2F401%2F581%2F7969%2F9148222%2F8%2Fultras.jpg%3Fwidth%3D610&hash=4bacc624c34b8b99fe7ac5e0f7bf7386cdb82d14)
Thankfully, I don't frequent public hospitals since my intentions are to live a lot longer. Secondly, I hate giving bribes. For just doing their work. I can understand a contract, an understanding... with mutual responsabilities. Simply throwing money at a person that seems disinterested in his job is stupid.
PS. It's hard to explain how things work here to a westerner. When I was in London at an ex-colleague, he was in pain for several days but couldn't treat himself since his doctor appointment wasn't due for another week. Here, you don't even wait for your doctor to check you out: you simply go to the emergency room and demand to be treated while buying all sorts of pills that may prove beneficial or not. But hey, at least healthcare is free...
Quote from: Jacob on April 02, 2012, 01:22:58 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on April 01, 2012, 06:29:40 PMAll fucking M.D.s must fucking hang.
What's this all about?
I think he's just jealous that M.D.'s get paid while his law degree is worthless.
Though, knowing Ide he'd end up a GP in some godforsaken country clinic barely scrapping by.
It's the same here Alex, healthcare is a holy cow.
A few years ago the most hated reform of the socialists was the "visit fee", roughly an euro-worth of money you had to pay when visiting the doctor (after X number of visits in a year, it became free).
While it was tedious, you cannot possibly imagine how effective it was in removing the "touristy" crowd at the doctors. The bored loney old people, who, for lacking any better to do, would go to the doctor on any excuse and clog up waiting lines.
A national referendum got rid of this.
Last week I was sitting in the waiting room of my doctor and this old lady told the other one that "it is so nice to be here, we can meet".
O RLY GOD DAMN YOU SOMEONE HAS OTHER THINGS TO DO WITH THEIR LIVES THEN WAITING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SICK :ultra:
Do you have the Christmas/New Year's Eve/Easter crowds of idiots that drink/eat their liver out then take up all the emergency rooms for one week? FOR FREE! I mean, come on!
The 1 euro visit fee would be a great thing here... but heck, it's an electoral year... nobody in their right mind would propose such a measure... "Michael Moore warned us about it" :lmfao: