How many cultures use a variant of Jesus as a male first name? Is it only used in the Spanish-speaking world? Is there an equivalent in other European cultures (in French, German, Italian, etc)? Is it as common in Spain as it is in Latin America?
I was asked by two friends to weigh in on a dispute on this topic, and realized I have no clue. The only real life experience I have is meeting Latin American men named Jesús. The only information I could find on the internet was mainly back-and-forth bashing and defense of Mexican Americans, so not really to the point. :(
Any arm-chair theories on why it took root in some cultures and not others?
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 04, 2009, 03:05:57 PM
How many cultures use a variant of Jesus as a male first name? Is it only used in the Spanish-speaking world? Is there an equivalent in other European cultures (in French, German, Italian, etc)? Is it as common in Spain as it is in Latin America?
I was asked by two friends to weigh in on a dispute on this topic, and realized I have no clue. The only real life experience I have is meeting Latin American men named Jesús. The only information I could find on the internet was mainly back-and-forth bashing and defense of Mexican Americans, so not really to the point. :(
Any arm-chair theories on why it took root in some cultures and not others?
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
All those fundies are sure going to be disappointed when they end up in Hell for believing in the wrong guy.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 04, 2009, 03:05:57 PM
The only information I could find on the internet was mainly back-and-forth bashing and defense of Mexican Americans, so not really to the point. :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)
Quote from: ulmont on May 04, 2009, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 04, 2009, 03:05:57 PM
The only information I could find on the internet was mainly back-and-forth bashing and defense of Mexican Americans, so not really to the point. :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)
Other than a nice short list of other famous people named Jesus, it's pretty irrelevant to the question. :huh:
Quote from: Valmy on May 04, 2009, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
All those fundies are sure going to be disappointed when they end up in Hell for believing in the wrong guy.
Yeah, they follow Paul instead of Christ. Good times.
What about Jesus as a last name?
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 04, 2009, 03:12:04 PM
Other than a nice short list of other famous people named Jesus, it's pretty irrelevant to the question. :huh:
It notes that the name is primarily restricted to the Spanish-speaking world. The number of examples in Spain proper show that the name is not restricted to Latin America. That's two of your first four questions answered...
See also:
http://www.babynamewizard.com/namipedia/boy/jesus
http://www.babynamer.com/jesus
Again...Spanish-speaking world, including Spain, not much outside that (possibly Portugal and Portuguese-areas).
In Sweden we have people called Thor (Tor). Odin (Oden) and Frey (Frej) are extremely rare though. Freya (Freja) is not unheard of.
I can confirm that it is, either alone or combined with other first names, a popular name in Spain.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
If true that is a AWFUL translation. Utterly different...
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
If true that is a AWFUL translation. Utterly different...
Awful? :yeahright:
wiki:
Quote"Jesus" (IPA: /ˈdʒizʊs/) is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יהושע (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ישוע (Yeshua ), (Joshua), meaning "the Lord rescues" or "the Lord delivers."
QuoteYeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēšûă') or ישוע in Hebrew was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period, and is believed by some scholars and religious groups to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus.
Would Christianity have taken off if Jesus had been called Warren?
Quote from: ulmont on May 04, 2009, 03:15:25 PM
Again...Spanish-speaking world, including Spain, not much outside that (possibly Portugal and Portuguese-areas).
I can't remember anyone (presently or in the past) using Jesus as a first name. I'm pretty sure someone was called by that name, but maybe it isn't as common as in Spanish speaking areas.
There was a former chairman of the Communist Party called Bento de Jesus Caraça, but in that case it's a kind of middle/last name.
In Brazil, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Jesus, but their naming attributes are pretty lame, and very different from ours.
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
If true that is a AWFUL translation. Utterly different...
Awful? :yeahright:
wiki:
Quote"Jesus" (IPA: /ˈdʒizʊs/) is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יהושע (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ישוע (Yeshua ), (Joshua), meaning "the Lord rescues" or "the Lord delivers."
QuoteYeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēšûă') or ישוע in Hebrew was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period, and is believed by some scholars and religious groups to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus.
:unsure:
I don't know what you're saying here.
Yeshua and Jesus sound utterly different.
I know it's common in Latin America, but off the top of my head I can't recall a single Jesus from my Dad's side, nor any friends named Jesus.
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:59:53 PM
:unsure:
I don't know what you're saying here.
Yeshua and Jesus sound utterly different.
Given how languages change and what not, I don't think it is that bad. If anything Yeshua to Joshua also seems rather foul.
Yes, it is fairly common in Spain.
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:59:53 PM
:unsure:
I don't know what you're saying here.
Yeshua and Jesus sound utterly different.
Given how languages change and what not, I don't think it is that bad. If anything Yeshua to Joshua also seems rather foul.
:mad:
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:59:53 PM
:unsure:
I don't know what you're saying here.
Yeshua and Jesus sound utterly different.
it's transliteration, not a translation. as a translation, which is concerned with meaning, it's awful. as a way of fitting a foreign word into another written language that uses a different alphabet, I guess it's alright.
Jesus wasn't allowed as a first name until 1998 in Germany. I've never heard of anybody with that name.
Quote from: The Brain on May 04, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
In Sweden we have people called Thor (Tor). Odin (Oden) and Frey (Frej) are extremely rare though. Freya (Freja) is not unheard of.
The world really needs more people name after and behaving like Loki.
it's all fun and games until someone dies of mistletoe. naming your kid Loki = bad idea.
That's probably why Latin-American countries are so poor.
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 04, 2009, 04:52:03 PM
Jesus wasn't allowed as a first name until 1998 in Germany.
:bleeding:
If I want to name my son Fuckface, I should be allowed to. :mad:
Quote from: Caliga on May 04, 2009, 06:40:30 PM
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 04, 2009, 04:52:03 PM
Jesus wasn't allowed as a first name until 1998 in Germany.
:bleeding:
If I want to name my son Fuckface, I should be allowed to. :mad:
Why would you want to punish your son like that?
Your freedom ends when it affects the freedoms of other people.
uh.... well, what if he happens to be a fuck face? :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on May 04, 2009, 06:43:20 PM
uh.... well, what if he happens to be a fuck face? :huh:
You should get a legal name change to fuckface.
Quote from: Jacob on May 04, 2009, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 04, 2009, 06:43:20 PM
uh.... well, what if he happens to be a fuck face? :huh:
You should get a legal name change to fuckface.
I can't, it's illegal. :mad:
Quote from: Caliga on May 04, 2009, 06:55:24 PM
I can't, it's illegal. :mad:
It's a shame; if you were a girl, you could at least settle for Shithead.
Anyway, on-topic, I blame Latin. Jesu/Jesus is only the Romance derivative, although I'm not sure how it morphed that widely in such a relatively short period of time.
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 04, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on May 04, 2009, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 04, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
It's all pretty amusing as he was JOSHUA (Yeshua)
Jesus is a bad translation that stuck.
If true that is a AWFUL translation. Utterly different...
Awful? :yeahright:
wiki:
Quote"Jesus" (IPA: /ˈdʒizʊs/) is a transliteration, occurring in a number of languages and based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יהושע (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ישוע (Yeshua ), (Joshua), meaning "the Lord rescues" or "the Lord delivers."
QuoteYeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēšûă') or ישוע in Hebrew was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period, and is believed by some scholars and religious groups to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus.
:unsure:
I don't know what you're saying here.
Yeshua and Jesus sound utterly different.
Yes, it would sound different, as the Greek-derived Latin translation made the "Y" into the "I/J" and made the "SH" into "S"
It's actually a double translation. Take McDonalds, translate it into Japanese, and then from the Japanese into the Russian.
Much of a muchness.
What crap, you don't know Iesu.
(Note, for pedants, the proper use of the vocative case)
Quote from: PDH on May 06, 2009, 09:56:51 AM
What crap, you don't know Iesu.
(Note, for pedants, the proper use of the vocative case)
:P
This vaguely reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses and their stance on the name of Hod.
Again YWYH = Jehovah only *after* translation.
If I translate all of my swear words into nonsense words or things like "fudge" and "sugar" then I am no longer swearing.
Quote from: PDH on May 06, 2009, 10:00:31 AM
If I translate all of my swear words into nonsense words or things like "fudge" and "sugar" then I am no longer swearing.
Indeed. If "propaganda" becomes "strategic communication", then it MUST be ok and perfectly valid stuff.
Likewise with "torture" and "enhanced interrogation techniques". "Estate Tax" and "Death Tax". Spin is fun.
No Jésus I can think of in French. There is probably a taboo on it. Some rare Josué, however.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on May 06, 2009, 09:40:03 AM
Yes, it would sound different, as the Greek-derived Latin translation made the "Y" into the "I/J" and made the "SH" into "S"
It's actually a double translation. Take McDonalds, translate it into Japanese, and then from the Japanese into the Russian.
Much of a muchness.
OMG, Yochanan, Iōannēs, Johann, Ivan, Juan, John, and Jean don't sound a like! :weep:
Quote from: Caliga on May 04, 2009, 06:40:30 PMIf I want to name my son Fuckface, I should be allowed to. :mad:
Nein, ze state knows what's best for you. :contract:
Related, from yesterday:
QuoteGerman court shoots down triple-barrelled names
1 day ago
KARLSRUHE, Germany (AFP) — A German married couple, the Thalheim-Kunz-Hallsteins, lost a battle before the country's top court Tuesday to defend the use of triple-barrelled names.
The plaintiff, a woman born Frieda Thalheim, had argued that a law passed in 1993 to ban couples from stringing more than two family names together violated their personal rights.
She had aimed to affix the last name of her husband, Hans-Peter Kunz-Hallstein, to her own maiden name, under which she had established a successful dentistry practice.
The Federal Constitutional Court ruled five-to-three that banning unwieldy names was "reasonable", noting that Thalheim had the right to use her maiden name professionally and her legal, married name in other settings.
It added that names had the function in a society of tracing a family line and that endlessly complicated names would create confusion.
"To this end, the legislative branches created laws to stifle the creation of multiple names," the court said.
Defenders of triple-pronged names had cited as prominent examples champion biathlete Simone Greiner-Petter-Memm and prominent pollster Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann-Maier-Leibnitz, who nevertheless dropped the second half of her family name after her husband died.
Somebody in a car with my wife driving might come to the conclusion that there are a lot of people named Jesus or even Jesus Christ.