http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=12927907
QuoteI'm a gay man in my late 20s who has been trying to deal with an attraction to young boys since I hit puberty. I know that what I feel is wrong and wish to Christ that I could have a normally wired brain. I have never abused a child; I do not look at child pornography. But I need to speak to a therapist because I can't get through this on my own. Bottom line is I'm afraid. Seriously afraid. I don't know what my legal rights are and I don't know how to go about getting more information without incriminating myself. I'm sure there are more people than just me who need to talk about this. My problem is that I'm not financially stable enough to afford seeing someone for more than a few sessions. I just can't keep saying I'm fine, and I can't let healthy relationships fall apart because I'm unable to talk to anyone about my problem.
Can't Wish It Away
I shared your letter with Dr. James Cantor, a psychologist, associate professor at the University of Toronto, and editor in chief of Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment. (Follow Dr. Cantor on Twitter @JamesCantorPhD.) The first thing he said, CWIA, was that you deserved praise—he called you "an ace"—for making it this far without having committed an offense.
But accessing the support you need to get through the next six or seven decades of life without sexually abusing a child—support the culture should provide to men and women like you in order to protect children—isn't going to be easy, Dr. Cantor said, particularly if you live in the United States.
"Other countries have created programs to help people like CWIA," said Dr. Cantor. "In Canada, we have the Circles of Support and Accountability—groups of volunteers who provide assistance and social support and who, in turn, receive support and supervision from professionals."
But Canada funds these programs only for people who committed a sexual offense. The Circles program isn't open to "gold-star pedophiles," my term for men and women who have successfully struggled against their attraction to children without any support or credit. (Yes, credit. Someone who is burdened with an attraction to children—no one chooses to be sexually attracted to children—and successfully battled that attraction all of his adult life deserves credit for his strength, self-control, and moral sense.)
Sadly, in the United States, we've taken steps that make it harder for pedophiles to get the support they need to avoid offending.
"One of the recent regulations in the United States is mandatory reporting," said Dr. Cantor. "These regulations vary by region, but in general, if a client has children or provides care to children and admits to experiencing sexual attraction to children—any children—the therapist is required to report the client to the authorities, regardless of whether any abuse was actually occurring."
The goal is to protect children, of course, and that is a goal I fully support as a parent and a human being. But broad mandatory reporting policies have an unintended consequence: People like CWIA—people who need help to avoid acting on their attraction to children—are cut off from mental health professionals who can give them the tools, insight, and support they need. Mandatory reporting policies, designed to protect children, may be making children less safe.
"The situation is not completely hopeless, however," said Dr. Cantor. "Therapists with training and experience working with people attracted to children are keenly aware of the delicate legal situation that both they and their clients are in. A good therapist—a licensed therapist, please—will begin the very first session by outlining exactly what they must report and what they may not report."
So long as there is no specific child in specific danger—so long as you don't have children (please don't), CWIA, and don't work with children (please don't)—your therapist is required to keep whatever information you share confidential.
"CWIA should ask questions about confidentiality before disclosing anything to a therapist," said Dr. Cantor. "He can ask these questions over the phone before making an appointment or even revealing his name."
To find a therapist, CWIA, you can contact—anonymously—the Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers (http://atsa.com/request-referral).
"Although that group is primarily about services to persons who have already committed an offense," said Dr. Cantor, "the professionals in their referral network are able and willing to help people in CWIA's situation as well."
Even the few sessions you can afford will help, CWIA.
Scary.
I observed that most pedophiles are GOP members in good standing. I'm not making a point, just an observation.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
I observed that most pedophiles are GOP members in good standing. I'm not making a point, just an observation.
Go away.
Quote from: Neil on March 07, 2012, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
I observed that most pedophiles are GOP members in good standing. I'm not making a point, just an observation.
Go away.
I'm just saying.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
I observed that most pedophiles are GOP members in good standing. I'm not making a point, just an observation.
I think that has more to do with the fact that GOP members are also strongly correlated with being religious nut bars. Irrc there are a number of studies which find a strong correlation between areas of strong religious faith and sexual deviancy - ie in highly religious communities (such as ones where you probably find strong GOP support).
Interestingly here is a study that finds that strong religious faith can be a strong inhibator of deviant sexual behaviour if the surrouding community does not share the same values. As the abstract to the study says - this is a rather counter intuitive finding but there it is.
QuotePerspectives on the relationship between individual religiosity and deviance are examined and contextual properties thought to condition the relationship are identified. Hypothesized linkages between these contextual variables and the strength of relationship between religiosity and nine types of deviant behavior are tested. Results indicate the religiosity—deviance relationship varies predictably across sociodemographic contexts, but not always in directions suggested by extant theories. Individual religiosity appears to constrain deviant behavior most effectively in environments characterized by general normative ambiguity, low social integration, generalized perceptions of low peer conformity, and a relatively high proportion of religious nonaffiliates. An integrated interpretation of these counterintuitive findings suggests religious participation can operate as a unique deviance inhibitor only when conformity inducing mechanisms characteristic of religious communities are not reproduced in the larger community. Hence the impact of religious constraints is increased where secular controls are absent or weak.
http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/3/653.abstract
I didn't mean that seriously. This was residual bile from a fight with Yi last night.
I don't know that the letter writer as all that incredibly rare. A sexual attraction to adolescants or pre-pubescent children is not unheard of, and does not guarantee that someone will commit an offence. The attraction itself of course is not illegal - only acting out on it.
I think the article vastly overplays the "problem" of mandatory reporting. Yes, if a therapist meets with the letter writer they will likely contact police. But if the person is not and has not committed any offence, and is not in a high risk situation (such as working at an elementary school, or living with young children) I can't imagine they will do a darn thing about it.
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular. I'd say that world religions have extremely varying attitude to those, and you could even say that some forms of sexual deviance can be encouraged (or at least tolerated or easily mistaken for religious devotion) by some religions.
For example, a lot of fetishists and masochists could easily disguise their behaviour as devout worship in the catholic church.
Edit: Btw, the article talks about seven forms of deviance - I thought there were eight.
Quote from: Barrister on March 07, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
I think the article vastly overplays the "problem" of mandatory reporting. Yes, if a therapist meets with the letter writer they will likely contact police. But if the person is not and has not committed any offence, and is not in a high risk situation (such as working at an elementary school, or living with young children) I can't imagine they will do a darn thing about it.
Well we don't know that. /I'm not surprised or put off by the level of concern raised here given that Dan is gay and there's always tension just on that (a legal thing) about whether or not it is a good idea to divulge. I can see being terrified to admit to anyone such a condition like this.
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2012, 12:39:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 07, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
I think the article vastly overplays the "problem" of mandatory reporting. Yes, if a therapist meets with the letter writer they will likely contact police. But if the person is not and has not committed any offence, and is not in a high risk situation (such as working at an elementary school, or living with young children) I can't imagine they will do a darn thing about it.
Well we don't know that. /I'm not surprised or put off by the level of concern raised here given that Dan is gay and there's always tension just on that (a legal thing) about whether or not it is a good idea to divulge. I can see being terrified to admit to anyone such a condition like this.
Yeah. I have sometimes wondered how horrible something like this could be. I think as gay guys we have a much better experience what kind of psychological distress "coming out of the closet" causes, and this kind of thing is obviously much much worse.
Tell you what, when you have compulsion to cut yourself open to remove the moss that you think is growing side your body cavity, then we'll talk about Psychological distress.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular.
So what. Are you trying to argue that pedophilia isnt a form of sexual deviancy?
Quote from: Barrister on March 07, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
I think the article vastly overplays the "problem" of mandatory reporting. Yes, if a therapist meets with the letter writer they will likely contact police. But if the person is not and has not committed any offence, and is not in a high risk situation (such as working at an elementary school, or living with young children) I can't imagine they will do a darn thing about it.
I could imagine it. At least in Texas they would want to put him on some watch list or some crap that would screw him for life. It is generally best to avoid law enforcement in any capacity over there they tend to go really over the top especially anything regarding sex, drugs, or alcohol.
Looking it up, I am 95% sure I heard a lecture from the Dr. Cantor mentioned in the article, and it was one of the most interesting CLE lectures I've ever heard.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular.
So what. Are you trying to argue that pedophilia isnt a form of sexual deviancy?
No. Did you even read the rest of my post?
If a study finds a correlation trend between A and B, it does not necessarily mean that the same trend exists between A and a small subset of B.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:47:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular.
So what. Are you trying to argue that pedophilia isnt a form of sexual deviancy?
No. Did you even read the rest of my post?
If a study finds a correlation trend between A and B, it does not necessarily mean that the same trend exists between A and a small subset of B.
Yeah, that is the point of the article and my original post. You should stop.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:47:55 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 12:43:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular.
So what. Are you trying to argue that pedophilia isnt a form of sexual deviancy?
No. Did you even read the rest of my post?
If a study finds a correlation trend between A and B, it does not necessarily mean that the same trend exists between A and a small subset of B.
It's a pretty safe assumption to make however unless there is evidence to the contrary.
BB, I presented one possible argument why the trend can be skewed - as I said, a lot of sexually deviant behavior is not strongly condemned by religious organizations and/or can actually be practiced under the guise of religious devotion. Pedophilia is unique in that, of all sexual deviations, it is the only one that is universally (at least in the Western world) recognized as morally evil.
I assume we all know the list of sexual deviations, right? Because maybe you guys have only a vague idea of what we are talking about.
Hint: homosexuality, or bisexuality isn't one.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:53:51 PM
I assume we all know the list of sexual deviations, right? Because maybe you guys have only a vague idea of what we are talking about.
Hint: homosexuality, or bisexuality isn't one.
I will wait until Garbon signs onto being part of the "we" are you are referring to. So far I read Garbon's point clearly and I understand what he is saying. I have no idea what you are saying.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 12:56:55 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:53:51 PM
I assume we all know the list of sexual deviations, right? Because maybe you guys have only a vague idea of what we are talking about.
Hint: homosexuality, or bisexuality isn't one.
I will wait until Garbon signs onto being part of the "we" are you are referring to. So far I read Garbon's point clearly and I understand what he is saying. I have no idea what you are saying.
By "we" I mean you, BB and I - i.e. people engaging in this discussion. I find your posts here to be unnecessarily aggressive and it beats me why.
In addition, I find the fact that you deliberately omit my actual argument in your quotations while quoting side stuff (e.g. what "we" in my post refers to) to be a proof that you are not interested in having any debate but rather stirring the shit up.
I will admit to not knowing the full catalog of sexual deviancy. The only things I think of as deviant are kiddie fiddling and sex with non-sentient beings unable to consent.
The list:
- exhibitionism
- fetishism
- frotteurism
- pedophilia
- masochism
- sadism
- transvestitism
- voyeurism
Masochistic fetishists can be quite happy as devout catholics. :P
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:58:16 PM
By "we" I mean you, BB and I - i.e. people engaging in this discussion. I find your posts here to be unnecessarily aggressive and it beats me why.
As I suspected, you did not understand my post. I was responding to Raz's post, not your insecurities.
So you're oversensitive about it because you like feet. :P
Who decides this list anyway? What purpose does it serve?
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
CC, the article quoted talks about sexual deviance in general and not pedophilia in particular. I'd say that world religions have extremely varying attitude to those, and you could even say that some forms of sexual deviance can be encouraged (or at least tolerated or easily mistaken for religious devotion) by some religions.
For example, a lot of fetishists and masochists could easily disguise their behaviour as devout worship in the catholic church.
Edit: Btw, the article talks about seven forms of deviance - I thought there were eight.
Which article are you referring to? I can't see a reference to seven forms of deviancy in either.
CC - did you know your study was from 1983?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 07, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
So you're oversensitive about it because you like feet. :P
Who decides this list anyway? What purpose does it serve?
I am not sure Marti is right that his list is what the author of the study I posted was talking about.
What the hell is wrong with 1983?
Quote from: Barrister on March 07, 2012, 01:22:46 PM
CC - did you know your study was from 1983?
Yep,
It appears there has not been a lot of work in this area since then. my recollection of these studies comes from my undergrad years when I read them. Which is why I prefaced my remarks with iirc there were studies that found these correlations.
I am not sure why there has not been much study since then.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 01:25:35 PM
I am not sure why there has not been much study since then.
:pope:
Quote from: Barrister on March 07, 2012, 12:32:56 PM
I don't know that the letter writer as all that incredibly rare. A sexual attraction to adolescants or pre-pubescent children is not unheard of, and does not guarantee that someone will commit an offence. The attraction itself of course is not illegal - only acting out on it.
Hell, a sexual attraction to adolescants is downright common, and is pretty well reinforced by cultural factors, especially if you take into account the older adolescants. Yeah, the young end of the scale gets treated like pedophiles, but attraction by adults to 16 year olds is pretty common.
QuoteI think the article vastly overplays the "problem" of mandatory reporting. Yes, if a therapist meets with the letter writer they will likely contact police. But if the person is not and has not committed any offence, and is not in a high risk situation (such as working at an elementary school, or living with young children) I can't imagine they will do a darn thing about it.
It's never a good idea to bank the rest of your life on the benevolence of law enforcement. These are people whose job includes jailing people for harmless infractions against their byzantine regulations.
Quote from: The Brain on March 07, 2012, 01:27:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 01:25:35 PM
I am not sure why there has not been much study since then.
:pope:
The rise of the religious right as a political force may have had something to do with it.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:53:51 PM
Hint: homosexuality, or bisexuality isn't one.
Wrong.
The system is rather broken.
I remember that story about the guy getting in trouble on the Canada/US border for having quasi-paedophilliac cartoon porn. Cracking down on that sort of thing just encourages paedophiles to act on it.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:53:51 PM
I assume we all know the list of sexual deviations, right? Because maybe you guys have only a vague idea of what we are talking about.
Which is much more then you.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
I observed that most pedophiles are GOP members in good standing. I'm not making a point, just an observation.
You have to politicise everything, don't you?
Take your lies back to your cave.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2012, 12:58:16 PM
I find your posts here to be unnecessarily aggressive and it beats me why.
I wish he could beat you with his posts. With much vigor.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 01:30:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 07, 2012, 01:27:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 07, 2012, 01:25:35 PM
I am not sure why there has not been much study since then.
:pope:
The rise of the religious right as a political force may have had something to do with it.
If anything, that sounds like it should have spurred on researchers.