The war on terror has seen many off handed and unexpected side effects..
There was the story of the Danish woman who had 61 $ dollar confiscated in a bank transfer to pakistan to pay for a Sari because she was suspected of funding terror.
But the most recent one can only give backlash as the US abuses the terror laws and their access to SWIFT servers to impose other laws..
The story is this.
In Denmark there is a small import company that imports high priced cigars. In Hamburg is a company that imports Cuban goods.
The Danish Company orders, and pays by bank transfer a shipment of Cuban cigars from the German dealer. All legit, all very ordinary transactions.
In US sits an officuous and pompous idiot of a security official. he sees a transfer of 116K DKK to a German company for Cuban goods. He then enact the terror legislation to freeze and confiscate the funds, because the US hasa trade embargo on Cuba :wacko:
Now the trade is legit, between two OECD, Western, NATO and EU countries. There is no terror, and the terror laws do not apply to internal US laws of trade embargo against Cuba, but still the US officials use the terror acts to impose the trade embargo..
Could there be more stupid ways to piss off your allies, the EU, free trade, opponents of the terror/big brother laws, and ensure that everyone will want to remove the control of the SWIFT from the US?
really, if I didn't know any better I'd say that US official was an agent provocateur :D
V
:blurgh: :nelson:
Problem ofc is, none of the transactions went in or out of Cuba, they only went between Denmark and Germany. So not only is it abuse of the terror act, it is also misplaced use of the trade embargo as neither money nor goods transactions were directed at Cuba.
The earlier GERMAN transaction would likely have been to import the goods from Cuba to germany, but that wasn't the transaction they stopped.
The damage is neglible in monetary terms, but interfering in other countries intern trade is NOT a very good way of making people support you :D
V
Don't take your Euro hang-ups out on us, Voldemort.
Oh, and :blurgh: :nelson:
Getting all defensive are we? :D :D is that the best argument FOR such a stupid, malplaced use of power?
Shrug,
No hang ups here, it just seems rather stupid and counter productive. Only effect it will have is retaliatory side effects.. EU govs will increasingly NOT support the US in their tech efforts and if they move into a parallelle SWIFT setup, then US will lose out. US will have increasingly hard time arguing why EU banks and authorities should let them snoop in their DBs, not to mention the US will not be able to pull the "free trade card" very well.
V
America sucks. It's the worst country in world history. Everyone here is a stupid, fat Christian wacko.
So with that being said, you don't need to post threads of this nature any longer. :)
America sure does sound terrible.
Sorry, but I cannot share your indignation, Vald, given that you have given no evidence that anything like what you say is happening is, in fact, actually going on.
I am sure you think you know what happened, but the tone of your post tells me that you are not a very reliable bearer of news; you are enjoying the indignation and the pain of your twisted panties too obviously.
valdimar, do you have references?
I blame Jaron.
This is exactly the type of non-story that whips the Euro plebs, from time to time, into indignant froths. It's annoying for the Yanks, but I shudder to think what it must have been like for the poor Jews in times past, who had to deal with the same phenomenon, but on a massively more uneducated (and thus violent) scale.
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
I guess, he read it in a Danish newspaper, here:
http://www.b.dk/nationalt/dansk-politimand-fanget-i-amerikansk-terrornet (http://www.b.dk/nationalt/dansk-politimand-fanget-i-amerikansk-terrornet)
edit:Good grief, I think google translate might be getting a lot more accurate, I put the above article into it and got the following out:
Quote
The Funen policeman Torben Nødskouv who operates a small hobby business Cognac house has been severely squeezed in the U.S. long-standing trade embargo against Cuba after his money has been caught in the worldwide financial terrorist networks, the U.S. has stretched across the world after 11 September 2001.
Actually should Torben Nødskouv just buy Cuban cigars for a German supplier in Hamburg. The payment was in dollars via a Danish bank. The problem was that the 26,000 dollar (£ 137,000) never reached Germany. Instead, U.S. authorities confiscated the money with a finding that Torben Nødskouv had broken the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba, and in a recent decision, the U.S. Treasury Department declined to release the money.
Thus, the U.S. authorities intervened and stopped a lawful money transaction between two European companies, says the criticism from experts.
Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, former head of operations in PET, invites the Danish EU Presidency to address the matter with the U.S..
"The case is a perfect opportunity for the Danish Presidency to step into character. It is a clear example that the U.S. abusing the rules have been set in the world to fight terror. That the U.S. authorities can stop and mingle in perfectly lawful money transaction between two European companies is a serious violation of EU citizens' legal security, "says Hans Jørgen Bonnichsen, pointing out that every law-abiding Dane hence can be affected by the far-reaching U.S. terror rules.
Something similar happened in 2008 for the dress handler Christa Møllgaard-Hansen from Maribo that got frozen $ 205 and was suspected of terrorism in connection with an order of six dresses in Pakistan.
Peter Thagesen, marketing, political chief in DI, indicate that the U.S. embargo against Cuba enforced globally by the U.S. authorities: "The enforcement of the U.S. embargo on European soil is highly controversial. This is a very special situation where a money transaction with our largest trading partner - Germany - will be frozen. "
Torben Nødskouv himself is appalled:
"I am committed to fighting terrorism, but we have to have faith in the authorities and our financial institutions. A significant portion of the trust is for me has been broken now. "
Read the full story of the tobacconist from Vissenbjerg in Berlingske Sunday Magazine
Last time I used it, you got a translation that one could typically have a stab at understanding what it meant, now it seems to be returning nearly 'proper' English sentences. :cool:
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
Yeah, in Danish, which is why i didn't link it, because all the fat white christians would not be able to read it :D
http://www.b.dk/nationalt/dansk-politimand-fanget-i-amerikansk-terrornet
And the page is from the more conservative and usually US agreeable newspaper in DK, Berlingske.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not beating the US here as such, more the combination of abuse of power, abuse of authority, the abuse of one law to uphold another law (mixing jurisdiction if you will) and the interference into internal and interstate matters of other nations on subjects that clearly are a domestic issue of the US. It would compare to the EU freezing US funds over abortion or capital punishment laws in a given EU state...
had the poor man at least been transferring money to Cuba, but he didn't, and it wasn't the German company's earlier transfer of money to Cuba they targeted, but the later purchase of cigars in germany that is what is making this so very odd :)
They could have stopped the Cuban business at so many earlier stages, why target the last link in such a clumsy way? Why not stop the payment to Cuba. This waythey aren't even hurting Cuba as they already got paid for the cigars :S And why use the terror act? It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
:yeahright: I wouldnt be so sure. It should be investigated. So Germany and Danishmark are in bed with the commies????
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:25:10 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
:yeahright: I wouldnt be so sure. It should be investigated. So Germany and Danishmark are in bed with the commies????
Still not an act of terror, the only act they could breach was the Cuban embargo, but it was the terror act that was used to sieze the funds :)
It seems to be like authorising waterboarding for shoplifting :D
V
I see V does analogies like Mart.
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:25:10 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
:yeahright: I wouldnt be so sure. It should be investigated. So Germany and Danishmark are in bed with the commies????
Still not an act of terror, the only act they could breach was the Cuban embargo, but it was the terror act that was used to sieze the funds :)
It seems to be like authorising waterboarding for shoplifting :D
V
So, what's the problem.
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2012, 08:28:10 AM
I see V does analogies like Mart.
Must be a euro thing then :rolleyes:
When you are done being all patrioticly defensive let me know what your less indignant view of the case is :)
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied, hence the waterboard to shoplifting.
It is also rather stupidly and inconsequently applied, with no real benefit for the US :)
V
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:31:45 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:25:10 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
:yeahright: I wouldnt be so sure. It should be investigated. So Germany and Danishmark are in bed with the commies????
Still not an act of terror, the only act they could breach was the Cuban embargo, but it was the terror act that was used to sieze the funds :)
It seems to be like authorising waterboarding for shoplifting :D
V
So, what's the problem.
you mean apart from the man being 100k+ short on his bank account and the US withholding money they had no reason to grab? Not much :D
V
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:31:45 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 27, 2012, 08:25:10 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 07:53:56 AM
valdimar, do you have references?
It is so obvious that cigars sold between denmark and germany isn't an act of terror :D
V
It was a rhetorical question.
:yeahright: I wouldnt be so sure. It should be investigated. So Germany and Danishmark are in bed with the commies????
Still not an act of terror, the only act they could breach was the Cuban embargo, but it was the terror act that was used to sieze the funds :)
It seems to be like authorising waterboarding for shoplifting :D
V
So, what's the problem.
you mean apart from the man being 100k+ short on his bank account and the US withholding money they had no reason to grab? Not much :D
V
That was a rhetorical question.
That's what happens when you do business in the US, whether online or in real life. Next time you want to avoid that particular brand of idiocy, stay out of the US. If you're looking to avoid having your money confiscated for calling champagne from California champagne, not having 50% of your board be women or having a Jewish person on your payroll, stay out of Europe. Canada doesn't seem to like Tamils. I'm not sure if the Japanese have any weird hangups that they'll steal all your money for, but the point is that there's a lot of idiocy in the world and that the American brand is just the most annoying.
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:35:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2012, 08:28:10 AM
I see V does analogies like Mart.
Must be a euro thing then :rolleyes:
When you are done being all patrioticly defensive let me know what your less indignant view of the case is :)
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied, hence the waterboard to shoplifting.
It is also rather stupidly and inconsequently applied, with no real benefit for the US :)
V
You're the one who is equating this with waterboarding for shoplifters. Oh and what was that innocent remark while you weren't bashing America? Oh yeah, fat white Christians. As if Danish is the language of civilization.
Just to clarify the sequence of events.
A Specialty shop in denmark buys cuban cigars from distributor in germany. I buys the cigars in dollars and the transaction is intercepted by a US authorities.
Now from what I gather the US embargo on Cuba is not just an embargo on Cuba but one on Cuba and everybody who does business with Cuba. This seems to be a case of a Bank (one which does business with the USA but not Cuba) not transfering money to a company trading with Cuba. In which case I have to side with the bank against the cigar importing cop. This is naturally based on the limited info I do have. I think the cop should not be surprised that the US embargo on Cuba might apply to the bank he asked to to the money transfer.
A danish woman buys 6 saris from pakistan and was suspected of terrorism. I suspect she was suspected of funding terrorism rather than suspected of terrorism. What, if any, action was taken against her? If she was suspected and then cleared (and compensated if any injury was done) what's the issue?
My gut feeling here is that naive danes are surprised that sending money to dictatorships and terroris hotbeds in unconventional manners is considered suspicious.
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2012, 08:47:16 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:35:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2012, 08:28:10 AM
I see V does analogies like Mart.
Must be a euro thing then :rolleyes:
When you are done being all patrioticly defensive let me know what your less indignant view of the case is :)
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied, hence the waterboard to shoplifting.
It is also rather stupidly and inconsequently applied, with no real benefit for the US :)
V
You're the one who is equating this with waterboarding for shoplifters. Oh and what was that innocent remark while you weren't bashing America? Oh yeah, fat white Christians. As if Danish is the language of civilization.
Fat white christians was in reference to Caliga's post, Garbon, he called it, I used it :)
V
Quote from: Neil on February 27, 2012, 08:39:33 AM
That's what happens when you do business in the US, whether online or in real life. Next time you want to avoid that particular brand of idiocy, stay out of the US. If you're looking to avoid having your money confiscated for calling champagne from California champagne, not having 50% of your board be women or having a Jewish person on your payroll, stay out of Europe. Canada doesn't seem to like Tamils. I'm not sure if the Japanese have any weird hangups that they'll steal all your money for, but the point is that there's a lot of idiocy in the world and that the American brand is just the most annoying.
The problem is Neil, he didn't do business in the US, he didn't even do business with Cuba. He had business with a German wholesaler in hamborg, but the servers for international money transfer is in the US and they used that access to stop his transfer and confiscate it :)
V
Quote from: Viking on February 27, 2012, 08:57:37 AM
Just to clarify the sequence of events.
A Specialty shop in denmark buys cuban cigars from distributor in germany. I buys the cigars in dollars and the transaction is intercepted by a US authorities.
Now from what I gather the US embargo on Cuba is not just an embargo on Cuba but one on Cuba and everybody who does business with Cuba. This seems to be a case of a Bank (one which does business with the USA but not Cuba) not transfering money to a company trading with Cuba. In which case I have to side with the bank against the cigar importing cop. This is naturally based on the limited info I do have. I think the cop should not be surprised that the US embargo on Cuba might apply to the bank he asked to to the money transfer.
A danish woman buys 6 saris from pakistan and was suspected of terrorism. I suspect she was suspected of funding terrorism rather than suspected of terrorism. What, if any, action was taken against her? If she was suspected and then cleared (and compensated if any injury was done) what's the issue?
My gut feeling here is that naive danes are surprised that sending money to dictatorships and terroris hotbeds in unconventional manners is considered suspicious.
Agree on the woman, it was funding terrorism they accused her of.
Not agreeing with the cop case though. he used a very local bank, not one with international ties, no apparent reason why that should mean he would be stopped. Nor was the transaction, from what I gather in dollar, but in Euro. Could be the German bank was an international one, but then, how does the German wholesaler handle his transactions??
V
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 04:46:41 AM
The war on terror has seen many off handed and unexpected side effects..
And remember that, until the European Parliament put a stop to it, the US demanded that every single bank operation in Europe - including your own payments of utility bills, for example - was to be sent to the US for scrutiny for possible Terror implications.
That means that yes, for years Washington knew almost instantly everything you did with your bank account/credit card, incluing all your transactions.
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 09:11:22 AM
Agree on the woman, it was funding terrorism they accused her of.
Not agreeing with the cop case though. he used a very local bank, not one with international ties, no apparent reason why that should mean he would be stopped. Nor was the transaction, from what I gather in dollar, but in Euro. Could be the German bank was an international one, but then, how does the German wholesaler handle his transactions??
V
QuoteBetalingen foregik i dollar via en dansk bank.
The transaction was in dollars. I would suspect that since the transaction happened in dollars a bank which applied the sanctions participated in the transaction. Also, the fact that he wholesaler wanted dollars suggests to me that the money was destined for cuba rather than the €uro style pockets of a Hamburg trading company.
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 09:08:30 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 27, 2012, 08:39:33 AM
That's what happens when you do business in the US, whether online or in real life. Next time you want to avoid that particular brand of idiocy, stay out of the US. If you're looking to avoid having your money confiscated for calling champagne from California champagne, not having 50% of your board be women or having a Jewish person on your payroll, stay out of Europe. Canada doesn't seem to like Tamils. I'm not sure if the Japanese have any weird hangups that they'll steal all your money for, but the point is that there's a lot of idiocy in the world and that the American brand is just the most annoying.
The problem is Neil, he didn't do business in the US, he didn't even do business with Cuba. He had business with a German wholesaler in hamborg, but the servers for international money transfer is in the US and they used that access to stop his transfer and confiscate it :)
V
American currency on American servers. Sounds like Europe needs to get a non-US system together if they don't like this sort of thing. Otherwise, their complaints are unimportant.
Quote from: Martim Silva on February 27, 2012, 09:14:53 AM
That means that yes, for years Washington knew almost instantly everything you did with your bank account/credit card, incluing all your transactions.
Unlikely. They barely can be bothered to remember things about their own citizens.
This thread gives me a red, white and blue patriotism boner.
It's really all for the best. Cigars are a good way to ruin a decent cognac.
I guess grumbler withdrew his argument?
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 27, 2012, 10:09:07 AM
This thread gives me a red, white and blue patriotism boner.
See a doctor if it persists for more than four hours.
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:35:22 AM
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied
They took the money by force? I thought they did it electronically.
Quote from: dps on February 27, 2012, 05:36:36 PM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:35:22 AM
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied
They took the money by force? I thought they did it electronically.
Semantics. But "Use of Force" in the context in which used it is wrong.
Quote from: dps on February 27, 2012, 05:36:36 PM
Quote from: Valdemar on February 27, 2012, 08:35:22 AM
To me it is excessive use of force, on a matter where the given force should not even be applied
They took the money by force? I thought they did it electronically.
Electronic force! :o
Last time I checked that was not in the use of force continuum. :lmfao:
Use the force, Luke.
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2012, 08:31:09 PM
Use the force, Luke.
More like Sandra Bullock in The Net. :contract:
Quote from: garbon on February 27, 2012, 08:31:56 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 27, 2012, 08:31:09 PM
Use the force, Luke.
More like Sandra Bullock in The Net. :contract:
She's a hottie. She calls for a double :perv: :perv:
She have a horsey face and pontey elbows.
Quote from: Solmyr on February 27, 2012, 01:51:21 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 27, 2012, 10:09:07 AM
This thread gives me a red, white and blue patriotism boner.
See a doctor if it persists for more than four hours.
Too late. I fainted in ecstasy.
Don't do drugs, dude.