Is anyone else vaguely interested in trying this? I love Jagged Alliance, but the reviews I've read for this game have me alarmed.
JA has needed a graphics upgrade for awhile to appeal to modern gaming, but I wonder if they threw out the baby with the bathwater.
It seems they've chucked some of the "realism" (although it wasn't really) in favor of new mechanics - like allowing mercs to be instantly healed in combat instead of healing over time by resting between encounters.
There is a demo on Steam. I downloaded it, and I'll try it tomorrow after work. Who knows - maybe it'll be fun and I'm just being a negative Neil. :hmm:
I would be interested in what your think of the demo; I have heard the same things and won't be getting this without multiple votes of confidence.
The gamebreaker was for me when I read that fog of war has been removed during combat.
I was interested, until I tried the demo. It was utterly underwhelming, and had most of the things that made JA special ripped out.
I've tried the demo. It isn't that bad. Yes, the lack of fog of war sucks. I don't understand why they decided to go that way. I want an option to turn it back on.
But if you can look past that, the game seems ok. They try quite hard to make it look and feel like Jagged Alliance 2.
Did I miss the option of making it turn based, like it should be?
As long as I can pause the game and issue commands, I am happy.
Quote from: Monoriu on February 09, 2012, 05:35:27 PM
As long as I can pause the game and issue commands, I am happy.
I'm not, that kind of ruins the whole premise of JA. The point of turn based games is to take reaction time out of the equation. Hitting the pause button isn't really a replacement to turn-based system at all, since you still need to pause it in time, before Lynx is missing half of his skull.
Europa Universalis isn't turn based either. It is real time with option to pause. If the game is slow enough, the system can minimise the effect of reaction time.
Playing the game. I haven't gone very far. These are my first impressions.
Cons
No custom made merc
No fog of war
A lot of my favourite low level mercs won't join me, even if they are among the 25% cheapest ones.
AI is pretty bad. Even if the enemy sees their comrades being killed one by one right next to them, they can act as if nothing happened.
Pros
The plan and go system works. I can turn on options that allow auto-pausing of the game under certain conditons (e.g. seeing an enemy). I do not feel that I need quick reflexes to play this game. An advantage over turn based is that the game feels faster and less tedious.
Good balance between keeping the old flavour, and adding new content
No major bugs so far
Game is addictive so far
I played it through the weekend. These are my further impressions.
Cons
The instant healing really irks me. Not only can I instant heal during combat, but health is fully restored as soon as a mission ends as well. There really is no reason to wait between missions as long as there is enough ammo. This aspect of the game feels like it is dumbed down.
The AI is just too passive, allowing me to pick off the enemy one-by-one. There is no coordination whatsoever. When I assault a base, and if I am not quiet about it, I expect the enemy to start a manhunt. When attacking, the AI just charges as one big tight group toward an objective.
Though all the previous mercs returned with pretty much the same personalities and capabilities, I'd like to see some new ones.
The other merc agency, the one with daily rates and crap mercs, does not return. I always hired their cheap mechanic.
I don't think I need to renew the contracts of my mercs. I just hire them and they are mine. No option to choose the contract length, no different rates for different time periods etc.
I miss the short cut scenes where the evil queen hears about the incursion and starts to rage up and down. I am hoping that if I get further into the game I may see them, but I am not holding my breath.
Pros
The setup, storyline and questlines have improved. The rebel leader now hides in a mountain base, instead of sitting in the same town that the government assaulted during the intro. I need to gather some info before I can find him, though it isn't anywhere near an elaborate questline. NPCs now give quests, and there is a page listing all of these. The map has a lot more interesting places, surprises and stuff to find/do.
The logistics and supply management side of the game is still there. I have to carefully consider the equipment and ammo that I need to buy, when to buy them, have someone waiting at the airport, bring the stuff to the front, where to place the supply dumps etc. There is a significant time gap between when I order the supplies, and when my frontline mercs can actually have them. If anything goes wrong, the mercs won't have sufficient ammo for my favourite guns, or they maybe left without stun grenades. I really feel the difficulty caused by lengthened supply lines.
I like the way they have changed the militias. In JA2, I hired the militias. Now they pop up automatically, but the number is based on town loyalty, which goes up over time. When they appear, they are merely "cadets". You have to give them weapons to really recruit them.
The financial aspect of the game is quite well balanced, leading to interesting decisions. Do I hire an additional merc, buy a good gun for the one I already have, or get more ammo/grenades?
There are now merchants in each major location. They can't replace the mail order/airport main supply route, but they offer more options.
Despite the problems I find myself playing it whenever I have time.
Thanks for the update, Mono.
I almost feel compelled to buy this, since I played the first two games for so many hours, but I don't have the time to play right now. Keep up the reports, and consider an AAR.
The more I play it the more I like the plan and go system. It is so nice to see everybody moving together at the same time. In a way, this is more realistic than turn based where only one guy can move at a time. "Reaction shots" just aren't good enough.
I think a lot of the voice actors have returned, but they play different roles. I have Meltdown, and I swear she sounds just like Ira from JA2.
An enemy squad attacked a roadblock held by my militia, so it is auto-resolve. 7 enemies vs 3 of my guys, who are equipped with the worst guns I can find. I also didn't give them any ammo. I don't mean no extra bullet; I really didn't give them a single bullet. Result: I lost one guy, they lost 7. Not sure how they won a melee fight with handguns.
The enemy reactions are very badly done. I hear them saying "it is a false alarm", or "nevermind", when they are standing over bodies of their comrades with blood all over the place, and half their men are missing. I am also disappointed to enter a new town and, before making any contact with the enemy, all the bad guys are already on alert, crouching and aiming. Before I am spotted, I expect the enemy to sleep, eat and rest etc.
Disappointed with how missles and explosives work in this game. I got Meltdown and a missle launcher. Even if the missle lands next to the enemy, it is counted as a "miss" and nothing happens. No damage to property, or to the nearby enemies. The only way to change the landscape is by blowing up walls, and I can't blow up any wall. There are clearly marked sections of walls that can be blown up. Nothing else is affected by explosives.
There are simply too few player options in setting up the game. No difficulty levels, no way to turn on fog of war, can't turn off instant healing, can't choose game speed during combat.
I have 4 mercs so far. With the initial funds of 40k, I thought I'd be able to hire 3 if I go for the cheap ones. Turns out that the folks like Buns and Iggy refused to join me. Raven, a fairly high level one that cost 33k, will join, but I'll end up with only one merc. So I compromised and got Meltdown and Hitman. Meltdown is good but Hitman is a mistake. I forgot that dexterity is needed to hit targets. The trouble with this pair is that they can't heal. At all. Also, no mechanical skills. I met Ira early on but she would only join after I have completed a couple of quests. She is mostly used as a mule. 4th one I hired is Buns, with good shooting, moderate healing skills, and great intelligence.
I badly need a good mechanic. Best one I have is Ira with mechanical skills in her 30s. I didn't bother to get mercs with good mechanical skills at first because I assumed that I could get either Dimitri or a cheap mechanic from the other merc agency.
I don't like what I'm reading so far. Really seems like the guts have been taken out of JA2. It makes me regret that much more that Silent Storm games have been so poorly implemented.
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2012, 10:21:02 PM
I don't like what I'm reading so far. Really seems like the guts have been taken out of JA2. It makes me regret that much more that Silent Storm games have been so poorly implemented.
I have to say though, that the developers took pains to make sure that the feel is quite similar to JA2. The game has a lot of shortcomings, sure. But not being faithful to JA2 is not one of them. As a fan of JA2 who used to play the game once every few years, I am happy that I bought Back in Action.
Are they talking at all about bringing back the PC-based merc?
And do they still have (Igor?) the young Russian merc with he high intel that you basically get to train up into whatever merc you need? Always enjoyed that feature, with the decisions necessary to allow him to gain experience without being killed 'cause he was a n00b.
RPS has a review:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/14/wot-i-think-jagged-alliance-back-in-action/
Seems rather mediocre at best and not true to the original.
Quote from: Syt on February 15, 2012, 07:50:21 AM
RPS has a review:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/14/wot-i-think-jagged-alliance-back-in-action/
Seems rather mediocre at best and not true to the original.
I think that "not true to the original" in this case is a silly claim. The original exists, and is true to itself, so if you want to have a game that is 'true to the original" you can just play the original.
I think the valid complaint is that the changes have not compensated for removing interesting decisions by adding equivalent interesting decisions. The reviewer at RPS made an important observation, I think when he said that "I've complained about the fog of war before... because of its revelation of the enemy's incompetence at existing." One of the reasons this game looks so bad to so many reviewers, IMO< is that the lack of FOW means you can see how bad the AI is; in JA2, the AI was bad, but you didn't know it so much because the AI troops running back and forth were not visible.
Quote from: grumbler on February 15, 2012, 07:42:09 AM
Are they talking at all about bringing back the PC-based merc?
And do they still have (Igor?) the young Russian merc with he high intel that you basically get to train up into whatever merc you need? Always enjoyed that feature, with the decisions necessary to allow him to gain experience without being killed 'cause he was a n00b.
All the AIM mercs have returned, including Igor. Problem is, he refused to join me initially. I have captured 2 towns and only now does he agree (I merely tested it, I didn't really hire him).
Giant Bomb had an hour-long video quick look on this game:
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-jagged-alliance-back-in-action/17-5666/
Quote from: FunkMonk on February 15, 2012, 01:40:25 PM
Giant Bomb had an hour-long video quick look on this game:
:huh:
Yeah not exactly short is it. :D
To be fair, I think most of their "Quick Looks" are less than twenty minutes.
Captured San Mona and was given 50k. Hello Raven and sniper rifle. Maybe I should get Lynx instead :hmm:
I really don't understand how people can say this is not true to the original. They even implemented one of the most annoying aspects of JA2 - a train of kids following you around the town and blocking doors :glare:
The AI is bad but I don't recall JA2's AI being anything approaching decent.
I now have 2 more mercs, Iggy who joined for free after I captured San Mona. Also hired Wolf for his mechanical skills.
But it now strikes me that it isn't necessary to bring too many mercs into a single battle, unlike JA2. In JA2, I needed more people because there was no instant healing. Plus I couldn't see where the enemies were, so I needed to be careful and guard against different possibilities. These two are probably the worst design decisions of Back in Action. As things stand, I don't see much point to bring more than 3-4 people into battle.
I am hoping that they'll change them in a patch.
I am still playing it. The sniper rifle changes the game. I was a bit worried that I could just kill the passive enemies from a distance one by one. The designers are obviously aware of this problem. Their solution is that the AI can pinpoint the exact location of the sniper, always. All the enemies within a certain distance of the sniper hit will rush in a straight line toward the sniper. My tactic to counter this AI behaviour is to snipe from a prepared defensive position. The sniper must also have a secondary weapon, because sniper rifles are really slow.
The lack of fog of war not just applies to the tactical battles, but also on the strategic map as well. I can click on an enemy holding and know the exact number of enemies and their levels.
I tried to assaut a place that I know was difficult, and was pleasantly surprised that I couldn't take it. The enemies were higher level, that means better guns and armour. I divided my guys into two teams of 3, and only one team was invovled in the assault. Now I know I need both teams.