http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/01/23/kentucky-cuts-education-preserves-tax-breaks-for-creationist-theme-park/
QuoteIn one of the most spectacularly mis-prioritized state budgets in recent memory, Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear (D), is suggesting over $50 million in cuts to education – while preserving $43 million in tax breaks for the Ark Encounter, a creationist amusement park centered around a life-sized Noah's Ark. The park is sponsored by Answers In Genesis, a non-profit organization that promotes a "literalist" interpretation of the Book of Genesis while promoting an anti-evolution (and other sciences) agenda.
There are a number of reasons why this is a bad idea. First of all, it makes no sense to cut education at this point without reforms that go along with it to ensure that education services don't suffer as a result. This budget doesn't do that. Education dollars are an investment in the future – both culturally and economically. Moreover, a tax subsidy in support violates – in spirit if not in letter – the sacred American principle of the separation of Church and State.
Moreover, in a time of austerity, surely it makes most sense to eliminate wasteful subsidies first, rather than essential public services. Especially subsidies that are of dubious value to begin with, whether its this "Ark Park" or a football stadium.
There are religious considerations, too. I'm not an evangelical myself, but hostility to evolution has caused a rift among evangelical Christians. For example, Liberal evangelical Fred Clark has a problem with this and other anti-science promotions by his fellow evangelicals, because he thinks that they're not only factually wrong, but also drive people away from evangelical churches.
Interestingly enough, this is actually quite an old conflict within the Church. The great Church Father Origen, among others, argued for allegorical interpretations of Genesis. Even back in the 4th century, St. Augustine took his fellow Christians to task for literally interpreting Genesis. He wrote in his, On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis:
Quote"It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.
With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation.
This goes back to points that Karen Armstrong made in her tour de force book, The Case for God – the idea that religion isn't about teaching facts – it's about teaching truths in the form of mythos. That is, teaching truth in the form of practice and symbolic language. It's about using poetry and allegory to guide people in understanding the universe and their place in it, whether those allegories are about seven days of creation, the will of Allah, the divine truths of Brahma, achieving Nirvana, or following the Tao.
I think that person doesn't understand Kentucky Christians if he thinks they view the Bible as mythos.
Good Job, Cal.
That's democracy.
Further legislative hilarity: proposed law against using aborted fetuses as food:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/oklahoma-lawmaker-ban-fetuses-food.html
So much for the dream of opening a fetus restaurant. :(
I wonder how many other businesses and projects are also getting tax breaks in this budget.
Quote from: Malthus on January 27, 2012, 10:39:26 AM
Further legislative hilarity: proposed law against using aborted fetuses as food:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/oklahoma-lawmaker-ban-fetuses-food.html
So much for the dream of opening a fetus restaurant. :(
Can we keep Jew news in a single thread?
An interesting experiment, involving children throughout the state, would be for the kids to make lifesize models of all the animals in the world (two of each unclean species and 14 of each clean species). Then, at the end of the year, there could be demonstration of how they won't all fit in the life-size ark.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on January 27, 2012, 11:02:52 AM
An interesting experiment, involving children throughout the state, would be for the kids to make lifesize models of all the animals in the world (two of each unclean species and 14 of each clean species). Then, at the end of the year, there could be demonstration of how they won't all fit in the life-size ark.
I'm sure they'd find a way to explain that away. Animals were smaller back then. The real ark is a lot larger. Saint performed miracles. Pigs could fly. Etc.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 27, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
I'm sure they'd find a way to explain that away. Animals were smaller back then. The real ark is a lot larger. Saint performed miracles. Pigs could fly. Etc.
Well they cannot argue the real ark is a lot larger. God is pretty anal about the size he wants Noah to build.
Noah sucks though. Moses wanted to go down with his people and God saved them. Noah just lets them all drown the selfish fuck.
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 27, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
I'm sure they'd find a way to explain that away. Animals were smaller back then. The real ark is a lot larger. Saint performed miracles. Pigs could fly. Etc.
Well they cannot argue the real ark is a lot larger. God is pretty anal about the size he wants Noah to build.
Noah sucks though. Moses wanted to go down with his people and God saved them. Noah just lets them all drown the selfish fuck.
You seem to know an awful lot about Jew stuff. Why is that?
I didn't realize that thing was paid for with state money. :rolleyes:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 27, 2012, 12:46:08 PM
I didn't realize that thing was paid for with state money. :rolleyes:
It's not state money
per se, because it's not a direct subsidy. Instead, it's tax breaks. Not at all uncommon for new businesses to get them. If tax breaks = state money, then your local Wallmart was probably built with state money, as well as any other large businesses.
Quote from: dps on January 27, 2012, 12:57:02 PM
It's not state money per se, because it's not a direct subsidy. Instead, it's tax breaks. Not at all uncommon for new businesses to get them. If tax breaks = state money, then your local Wallmart was probably built with state money, as well as any other large businesses.
Well they were. It is an investment in expectation of future returns.
It's Kentucky. It will make its money back many times over.
I still recommend the creationist museum in Petersburg for many LOLs.
How is replacement Butter Jesus doing btw?
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
How is replacement Butter Jesus doing btw?
Haven't heard anything since they said they had a new one under design.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 27, 2012, 01:18:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 27, 2012, 01:16:05 PM
How is replacement Butter Jesus doing btw?
Haven't heard anything since they said they had a new one under design.
Man the judgement of God clearly has no currency with that church.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2012, 08:18:45 AM
Good Job, Cal.
Yeah I am glad Cal is around. It is usually my state that looks like morons.
Though sometimes I think he is going a bit too native :P
I'm surprised that church hasn't been raided yet.
Quote from: Monoriu on January 27, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
I'm sure they'd find a way to explain that away. Animals were smaller back then. The real ark is a lot larger. Saint performed miracles. Pigs could fly. Etc.
It's an allegory for a genetic database.
Too funy and stupid. Cutting all that money for education due to budget constraints but still leaving a similar amount in for a Theme Park of any kind. <_<
Quote from: citizen k on January 27, 2012, 01:29:35 PM
It's an allegory for a genetic database.
:lol: Excellent.
Quote from: Malthus on January 27, 2012, 10:39:26 AM
Further legislative hilarity: proposed law against using aborted fetuses as food:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/oklahoma-lawmaker-ban-fetuses-food.html
So much for the dream of opening a fetus restaurant. :(
Watch out, they're onto Jew!
The thread about this on EUOT had a link to this blog. It is a review of a textbook, Science 4 for Christian Schools produced by Bob Jones University.
http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Eye-Opening_Highlights_From_a_Creationist_Science_Textbook
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2012, 08:18:45 AM
Good Job, Cal.
Yeah I am glad Cal is around. It is usually my state that looks like morons.
Though sometimes I think he is going a bit too native :P
What the hell does this have to do with me? :blink: Every time there's a news story about something stupid happening in Missouri or Texas I don't say "good job Raz" or "good job Valmy". :P
Quote from: Caliga on January 27, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 27, 2012, 08:18:45 AM
Good Job, Cal.
Yeah I am glad Cal is around. It is usually my state that looks like morons.
Though sometimes I think he is going a bit too native :P
What the hell does this have to do with me? :blink: Every time there's a news story about something stupid happening in Missouri or Texas I don't say "good job Raz" or "good job Valmy". :P
Languish in action:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDLUea.gif&hash=41477ce7bd1331bc8c56da764f511c3aef74dc6e)
Quote from: KRonn on January 27, 2012, 04:46:21 PM
Too funy and stupid. Cutting all that money for education due to budget constraints but still leaving a similar amount in for a Theme Park of any kind. <_<
It's not a direct subsidy. This may generate money adn jobs for the state. Education just generates costs and such. Especially with those teachers' unions.
Quote from: sbr on January 27, 2012, 08:04:14 PM
The thread about this on EUOT had a link to this blog. It is a review of a textbook, Science 4 for Christian Schools produced by Bob Jones University.
http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Eye-Opening_Highlights_From_a_Creationist_Science_Textbook
Okay, the electricity one had me. Perhaps it was written for the Amish market.
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 11:28:57 AM
Noah sucks though. Moses wanted to go down with his people and God saved them. Noah just lets them all drown the selfish fuck.
There was no room and the animals were already on the boat.
Quote from: sbr on January 27, 2012, 08:04:14 PM
The thread about this on EUOT had a link to this blog. It is a review of a textbook, Science 4 for Christian Schools produced by Bob Jones University.
http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Eye-Opening_Highlights_From_a_Creationist_Science_Textbook
Whoa! :huh:
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 11:28:57 AM
Noah sucks though. Moses wanted to go down with his people and God saved them. Noah just lets them all drown the selfish fuck.
Maybe he tripped and fell into the boat.
Quote from: Caliga on January 27, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
What the hell does this have to do with me? :blink: Every time there's a news story about something stupid happening in Missouri or Texas I don't say "good job Raz" or "good job Valmy". :P
I don't know about Valmy but unlike Raz, you voluntarily chose to move there.
IIRC Valmy is a texan with carpetbagging marylander roots from his poppa.
Quote from: Iormlund on January 28, 2012, 07:32:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on January 27, 2012, 11:28:57 AM
Noah sucks though. Moses wanted to go down with his people and God saved them. Noah just lets them all drown the selfish fuck.
Maybe he tripped and fell into the boat.
:lmfao:
Interesting. It's a pity that they can't be more sensible about their situation. Even an indirect subsidy, while legal, impacts the state budget and is thus a conscious decision to "fund" this at the expense of more worthy projects.
The sensibility of the tax break is ostenisbly about investment and job creation, not about the product they deliver.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2012, 02:58:56 PM
The sensibility of the tax break is ostenisbly about investment and job creation, not about the product they deliver.
That's the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. It's a tough sell that this is more worthy than projects that had their funding decreased.
Typically a state Economic Development Office will offer a company tax breaks if they locate in their jurisdiction. Without the tax breaks the company will go somewhere else. So the alternative is not $50 million more in the state budget to spend on other nice things, it's likely less tax revenues.
No idea what the spoonful of sugar is supposed to mean.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2012, 03:21:53 PM
Typically a state Economic Development Office will offer a company tax breaks if they locate in their jurisdiction. Without the tax breaks the company will go somewhere else. So the alternative is not $50 million more in the state budget to spend on other nice things, it's likely less tax revenues.
That's the theory. In practice, a lot of businesses get tax breaks that would have located in-state anyway.
In general, I don't favor the practice. I'd make an exception for breaks that go to companies willing to locate in areas within a state that are particularly economically disadvantaged or underdeveloped.
Quote from: dps on January 28, 2012, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2012, 03:21:53 PM
Typically a state Economic Development Office will offer a company tax breaks if they locate in their jurisdiction. Without the tax breaks the company will go somewhere else. So the alternative is not $50 million more in the state budget to spend on other nice things, it's likely less tax revenues.
That's the theory. In practice, a lot of businesses get tax breaks that would have located in-state anyway.
In general, I don't favor the practice. I'd make an exception for breaks that go to companies willing to locate in areas within a state that are particularly economically disadvantaged or underdeveloped.
So it's OK in this case.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2012, 03:21:53 PM
No idea what the spoonful of sugar is supposed to mean.
Yes it does seem off considering that a "spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." I doubt Ank thinks this is beneficial. :D
Quote from: garbon on January 28, 2012, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 28, 2012, 03:21:53 PM
No idea what the spoonful of sugar is supposed to mean.
Yes it does seem off considering that a "spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." I doubt Ank thinks this is beneficial. :D
Maybe creation parks can be delightful?
Ask Ed... I think he's been to that one. :hmm:
A friend of mine took his wife and kids there as a lark (they're atheists) and his son got really scared and started screaming so they had to leave. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:45:32 AM
Ask Ed... I think he's been to that one. :hmm:
In Petersburg? Yep. Fun for all.
Quote from: Caliga on January 27, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
What the hell does this have to do with me? :blink: Every time there's a news story about something stupid happening in Missouri or Texas I don't say "good job Raz" or "good job Valmy". :P
Nothing. Geez we were kidding.
I know and I'm not mad, but it's weird how anytime anything is posted that's remotely related to Kentucky it's Mock Cal Time. Then again, Raz actually started that, and I guess if I were Raz I'd grasp at straws too in order to mock others as a way of feeling better about my pathetic, pitiful existence. :)
Schadenfreude is no way to go through life.
Once again we mock you as you willingly moved to Kentucky.
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:27:28 PM
Once again we mock you as you willingly moved to Kentucky.
Cal already has me on ignore. :weep:
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:27:28 PM
Once again we mock you as you willingly moved to Kentucky.
Ah, but I suspect I'm here for pretty much the same reason that you're in Alaska. :cool:
You running away from the law too, cal? :unsure:
Quote from: HVC on January 29, 2012, 07:33:08 PM
You running away from the law too, cal? :unsure:
Oh, I forgot about the whole illegal immigrant thing. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:27:28 PM
Once again we mock you as you willingly moved to Kentucky.
Ah, but I suspect I'm here for pretty much the same reason that you're in Alaska. :cool:
You grew up in Kentucky as a child so moved home.
:huh:
@hvc. You suck at keeping quiet, damn stooley pigeon.
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 29, 2012, 07:33:08 PM
You running away from the law too, cal? :unsure:
Oh, I forgot about the whole illegal immigrant thing. :blush:
I had no idea born in Colorado was illegal :o
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
You grew up in Kentucky as a child so moved home.
:huh:
@hvc. You suck at keeping quiet, damn stooley pigeon.
Where did Princesca grow up? :sleep:
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 29, 2012, 07:33:08 PM
You running away from the law too, cal? :unsure:
Oh, I forgot about the whole illegal immigrant thing. :blush:
I had no idea born in Colorado was illegal :o
If it isn't it should be :p
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
I had no idea born in Colorado was illegal :o
Once a Mexican, always a Mexican. :mad:
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
@hvc. You suck at keeping quiet, damn stooley pigeon.
:blush: sorry boss.
If you ever heard kat speak it detracts from the Mexican stereotype we try to superimpose on him. I was hoping for speedy Gonzales :( :P
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
You grew up in Kentucky as a child so moved home.
:huh:
@hvc. You suck at keeping quiet, damn stooley pigeon.
Where did Princesca grow up? :sleep:
So if princesca told you to jump off a bridge, you would. Gotcha.
:cool:
Quote from: HVC on January 29, 2012, 07:41:26 PM
If you ever heard kat speak it detracts from the Mexican stereotype we try to superimpose on him. I was hoping for speedy Gonzales :( :P
I would expect him to have a very neutral American accent since he has lived in Colorado, Pennsylvania, Alaska and (IIRC) California.
Add in Washington and New Mexico as well.
Katmai sounded like a mixture between a terrorist and a pro-wrestler. I was afraid the whole time he was in my presence.
Where did you live in NM? Awesome state. :cool:
Santa Fe.
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2012, 07:48:07 PM
Katmai sounded like a mixture between a terrorist and a pro-wrestler. I was afraid the whole time he was in my presence.
So what you're saying is that he sounded like a cross between Subcomandante Marcos and El Diablo Rojo the Luchador hero? :)
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2012, 07:48:07 PM
Katmai sounded like a mixture between a terrorist and a pro-wrestler. I was afraid the whole time he was in my presence.
So what you're saying is that he sounded like a cross between Subcomandante Marcos and El Diablo Rojo the Luchador hero? :)
More like one of the Nasty Boyz and that Underpants Bomber - but you get the idea.
Fatmai is La Parka.
He sounded Californian to me. Or at least non-hillbilly west cost.
Quote from: HVC on January 29, 2012, 07:52:31 PM
He sounded Californian to me. Or at least non-hillbilly west cost.
Exactly.
:huh:
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:49:15 PM
Quote from: PDH on January 29, 2012, 07:48:07 PM
Katmai sounded like a mixture between a terrorist and a pro-wrestler. I was afraid the whole time he was in my presence.
So what you're saying is that he sounded like a cross between Subcomandante Marcos and El Diablo Rojo the Luchador hero? :)
More like one of the Nasty Boyz and that Underpants Bomber - but you get the idea.
I think it was the fear that caused this memory.
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 29, 2012, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
You grew up in Kentucky as a child so moved home.
:huh:
@hvc. You suck at keeping quiet, damn stooley pigeon.
Where did Princesca grow up? :sleep:
So if princesca told you to jump off a bridge, you would. Gotcha.
She asked him to join the tea party and he was out their waving signs telling the president to go back to the jungle. -_-
Quote from: katmai on January 29, 2012, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 29, 2012, 07:52:14 PM
Fatmai is La Parka.
:huh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWu6FS6Uc_0
I watched WCW during the evening shift in the late 90's. :blush:
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 29, 2012, 07:56:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWu6FS6Uc_0
I watched WCW during the evening shift in the late 90's. :blush:
As I recall the evening at the restaurant, that seems about the way it was. I was the guy in the third row.
Talking about Mexicans and wrestling makes me miss Eddie Guerrero. :(
Speaking as a porkchop I always hated the man of war.
Manowar had some okay songs.