Disgraceful! Once again UN peacekeepers are completely useless. :mad:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45983369/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/#.TxALXPlKR5c
QuoteMoney from US used to fund genocide in S. Sudan?
'We have decided to invade Murleland and wipe out the entire Murle tribe on the face of the earth,' attackers from rival Nuer tribe warn
PIBOR, South Sudan — The trail of corpses begins about 300 yards from the corrugated metal gate of the United Nations compound and stretches for miles into the bush.
There is an old man on his back, a young woman with her legs splayed and skirt bunched up around her hips, and a whole family — man, woman, two children — all facedown in the swamp grass, executed together. How many hundreds are scattered across the savannah, nobody really knows.
South Sudan, born six months ago in great jubilation, is plunging into a vortex of violence.
Bitter ethnic tensions that had largely been shelved for the sake of achieving independence have ruptured into a cycle of massacre and revenge that neither the American-backed government nor the United Nations has been able to stop.
The United States and other Western countries have invested billions of dollars in South Sudan, hoping it will overcome its deeply etched history of poverty, violence and ethnic fault lines to emerge as a stable, Western-friendly nation in a volatile region.
Instead, heavily armed militias the size of small armies are now marching on villages and towns with impunity, sometimes with blatantly genocidal intent.
Eight thousand fighters just besieged this small town in the middle of a vast expanse, razing huts, burning granaries, stealing tens of thousands of cows and methodically killing hundreds, possibly thousands, of men, women and children hiding in the bush.
Peacekeepers helpless
The raiders had even broadcast their massacre plans.
"We have decided to invade Murleland and wipe out the entire Murle tribe on the face of the earth," the attackers, from a rival ethnic group, the Nuer, warned in a public statement.
The United Nations, which has 3,000 combat-ready peacekeepers in South Sudan, tracked the advancing fighters from helicopters for days before the massacre and rushed in about 400 soldiers.
But the peacekeepers did not fire a single shot, saying they were greatly outnumbered and could have easily been massacred themselves.
The attack was presaged by a fund-raising drive for the Nuer militia in the United States — a troubling sign that behind the raiders toting Kalashnikovs and singing war songs was an active back office half a world away.
Gai Bol Thong, a Nuer refugee in Seattle who helped write the militia's statement, said he had led an effort to cobble together about $45,000 from South Sudanese living abroad for the warriors' food and medicine.
"We mean what we say," he said in an interview. "We kill everybody. We are tired of them." (He later scaled back and said he meant they would kill Murle warriors, not civilians.)
Such ethnic clashes were unnervingly common here in 2009, before the final push for independence.
More ominous than the small-scale cattle raids that have gone on for generations, the attacks often seemed like infantry maneuvers, fueling accusations that northern Sudanese leaders had shipped in arms to destabilize the south.
Reconciliation short-lived
But southerners seemed to rally together as the historic referendum on independence from the north drew near. The exuberance brought reconciliation. Major ethnic clashes all but disappeared.
The respite was short lived. Fighting broke out almost immediately along the border between north and south. Then, only a month after South Sudan celebrated its independence last July with a new national anthem and a countdown clock that blared "Free at Last," Murle fighters killed more than 600 Nuer villagers and abducted scores of children. That attack set this month's massacre into motion.
The makeshift medical clinic here in Pibor now stinks of decaying flesh. It is full of Murle children with bullet holes drilled through their limbs. Many have trudged for days to get here, through swamps and murky rivers, and their wounds are suppurating and gangrenous. The doctors take one look and whisper the word: amputation.
South Sudan's government has been extremely reluctant to wade into these feuds, because the government itself is a loosely woven tapestry of rival ethnic groups that fought bitterly during Sudan's long civil war. The Nuer are a crucial piece of the governing coalition, and the Lou Nuer, the subgroup that led the raid on Pibor, supply thousands of soldiers to South Sudan's army.
"Nuer fighting Nuer?" said a Western diplomat in South Sudan, considering the complications of a military intervention to stop the massacre. "That would be explosive."
The government has tried to broker peace talks between the Lou Nuer and the Murle, but the negotiations broke down in early December, when the Murle refused to give back abducted children.
'Revenge'
Nuer leaders then reconstituted the White Army, a fearsome force of Nuer youths that massacred thousands during the 1990s. "We had been begging the government to protect us from the Murle, and they didn't," said Mr. Thong, the Nuer organizer in Seattle. The decision was then simple, he said: "to make revenge."
The government said it was planning a major disarmament campaign for the area, once the rains stopped. Until then, "there's no justification for anyone to take the law into their own hands," said South Sudan's military spokesman, Col. Philip Aguer.
As thousands of Nuer fighters poured into Pibor on Dec. 31, United Nations military observers watched them burn down Murle huts and then march off, in single file lines, into the bush, where many Murle civilians were hiding. Murle leaders have complained that they were abandoned in their hour of need. Neither government forces nor the United Nations peacekeepers left their posts in Pibor to protect the civilians who had fled, and it appears that many Murle were hunted down.
Hilde F. Johnson, head of the United Nations mission in South Sudan, said the peacekeepers had warned residents that the fighters were coming. But she argued that the United Nations troops had little choice but to stay on the sidelines. "Protection of civilians in the rural areas and at larger scale would only have been possible with significantly more military capacity," she said.
The rampage continued until Jan. 3, but the number of dead is far from clear. Joshua Konyi, Pibor's county commissioner and a Murle, said more than 3,000 had died. Several United Nations officials said they doubted that the numbers were that high because so many people had fled Pibor before the attack, but they agreed that scores, if not hundreds, were killed.
"There are bodies everywhere," said one United Nations official who was not allowed to speak publicly. "It's a big area, so I wouldn't be surprised by 1,000."
6-year-old executed
Many survivors spoke of seeing dozens killed in front of their eyes.
One spindly Murle woman named Ngadok was shot in the leg as she fled with her 6-year-old son cinched to her back. After she fell, she said, the Nuer raiders stood over her and executed her boy.
"I'm not thinking about anything now," she said, staring blankly at the white canvas walls of the makeshift medical clinic. "My child is dead."
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Murle fighters are regrouping and have already hit several villages, killing dozens.
And it may not be purely about revenge. The Murle survive off cows, and Mr. Konyi said the community had lost more than 300,000.
A helicopter flies low over the savannah, about 20 miles north of Pibor, and the emerald green grass suddenly turns white, brown and black. Down below are cows, thousands and thousands of them, a huge mass of animals as far as the eye can see.
These are the Murle cattle, driven by thin young men who look up quizzically at the helicopter, slowly making their way back to Nuerland.
Copyright © 2012 The New York Times
Wait, we are backing a government there? Why we are backing any government there?
When a country can't even think of a better name than N/S/E/W XXXXX you know its probally not a natural country which should exist.
Quote from: Tyr on January 13, 2012, 06:02:11 AM
When a country can't even think of a better name than N/S/E/W XXXXX you know its probally not a natural country which should exist.
Most of the African countries either shouldn't exist or shouldn't be without their colonial masters.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 05:47:54 AM
Disgraceful! Once again UN peacekeepers are completely useless. :mad:
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2012, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 05:47:54 AM
Disgraceful! Once again UN peacekeepers are completely useless. :mad:
:rolleyes:
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
I certainly can. The role of the peacekeepers is not to engage in military operations, especially against superior forces. If they do that they are no longer peacekeepers and would need a UN resolution to do so...unless it is self defense. So they are useless at something they are not designed or supposed to do?
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
I certainly can. The role of the peacekeepers is not to engage in military operations, especially against superior forces. If they do that they are no longer peacekeepers and would need a UN resolution to do so...unless it is self defense. So they are useless at something they are not designed or supposed to do?
details details. Timmy wants blood! and perhaps urine, depending on where he stands on the marines issue.
Especially if, as it sounds in this case, they're dealing with troops who've the support of one part of the new government the UN's supporting:
QuoteSouth Sudan's government has been extremely reluctant to wade into these feuds, because the government itself is a loosely woven tapestry of rival ethnic groups that fought bitterly during Sudan's long civil war. The Nuer are a crucial piece of the governing coalition, and the Lou Nuer, the subgroup that led the raid on Pibor, supply thousands of soldiers to South Sudan's army.
The UN's role should be to support the disarmament process and negotiations between ethnic groups supported by the government.
Also this doesn't sound like genocide to me.
They should merge the tribes and call themselves the New Nuer.
They are chiefdoms, not tribes.
Quote from: PDH on January 13, 2012, 10:45:29 AM
They are chiefdoms, not tribes.
This is why anthropologists don't get invited to parties. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on January 13, 2012, 11:07:33 AM
Quote from: PDH on January 13, 2012, 10:45:29 AM
They are chiefdoms, not tribes.
This is why anthropologists don't get invited to parties. ;)
oh, there are other reasons too :D
QuoteThe United Nations, which has 3,000 combat-ready peacekeepers in South Sudan, tracked the advancing fighters from helicopters for days before the massacre and rushed in about 400 soldiers.
But the peacekeepers did not fire a single shot, saying they were greatly outnumbered and could have easily been massacred themselves.
You gotta be shitting me. Even 400 UN knuckleheads could deal with a bunch of tribal numbnuts and kiddie soldiers that have no fucking experience, communications or common sense.
What makes you think the UN troops had experience, communications or common sense?
The UN is to busy planning to conquer the US and take away people's guns. I saw Ron Paul on one of those John Birch Society videos discussing this.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 05:51:28 AM
Wait, we are backing a government there? Why we are backing any government there?
Because we're "hoping it will overcome its deeply etched history of poverty, violence and ethnic fault lines to emerge as a stable, Western-friendly nation in a volatile region" apparently.
Or to put it another way, we're being foolish and spending money we don't have.
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 05:51:28 AM
Wait, we are backing a government there? Why we are backing any government there?
Because we're "hoping it will overcome its deeply etched history of poverty, violence and ethnic fault lines to emerge as a stable, Western-friendly nation in a volatile region" apparently.
Or to put it another way, we're being foolish and spending money we don't have.
I don't really care if South Sudan is Western friendly, Eastern Friendly or Galactic Spinward friendly.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 05:51:28 AM
Wait, we are backing a government there? Why we are backing any government there?
Because we're "hoping it will overcome its deeply etched history of poverty, violence and ethnic fault lines to emerge as a stable, Western-friendly nation in a volatile region" apparently.
Or to put it another way, we're being foolish and spending money we don't have.
I don't really care if South Sudan is Western friendly, Eastern Friendly or Galactic Spinward friendly.
Maintaining a positive relationship with the Spinward Marches should be an essential goal for any planet in the Third Imperium. :nerd:
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
I don't really care if South Sudan is Western friendly, Eastern Friendly or Galactic Spinward friendly.
I think it's a "nice to have" but not really worth much effort or money we spent.
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
I don't really care if South Sudan is Western friendly, Eastern Friendly or Galactic Spinward friendly.
I think it's a "nice to have" but not really worth much effort or money we spent.
There's a few elements. South Sudan's Christian, very pro-Israel and oppressed by Arab Muslims. That makes it a reasonably attractive country for the right to support - I think National Review recently had an article on it. Also it's strategically important due to the water politics of the region I think. Also it's part of the great game. The Chinese are historically very invested in the Sudanese oil industry, they mainly supported the North though. Most of the oil's in the South. There could be an opportunity for US business there.
How much effort and money have you spent, by the way?
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 01:38:15 PM
The UN is to busy planning to conquer the US and take away people's guns. I saw Ron Paul on one of those John Birch Society videos discussing this.
It wasn't Ron Paul, it was a ghost speaker.
Quote from: Barrister on January 13, 2012, 01:59:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 13, 2012, 05:51:28 AM
Wait, we are backing a government there? Why we are backing any government there?
Because we're "hoping it will overcome its deeply etched history of poverty, violence and ethnic fault lines to emerge as a stable, Western-friendly nation in a volatile region" apparently.
Or to put it another way, we're being foolish and spending money we don't have.
I don't really care if South Sudan is Western friendly, Eastern Friendly or Galactic Spinward friendly.
Maintaining a positive relationship with the Spinward Marches should be an essential goal for any planet in the Third Imperium. :nerd:
Is it really? I doubt that Solomani are much concerned with goings on the Spinward Marches. I would imagine their preoccupied with the Aslan and with their own politics.
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 13, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
How much effort and money have you spent, by the way?
It all adds up, Yi.
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 13, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
How much effort and money have you spent, by the way?
It all adds up, Yi.
I know we're all aspects of Yi, but this is extreme :P
Also the US spent a lot of time helping negotiate the independence vote and peace deal. You're kind of invested.
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
I certainly can. The role of the peacekeepers is not to engage in military operations, especially against superior forces. If they do that they are no longer peacekeepers and would need a UN resolution to do so...unless it is self defense. So they are useless at something they are not designed or supposed to do?
First of all just because they were outnumbered doesn't they were facing superior forces. They African militiamen, any professional force should be able to tear them apart.
Secondly, what's the point of peacekeepers if they are not allowed to keep the peace. If they can't do anything they're just glorified hostages.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
I certainly can. The role of the peacekeepers is not to engage in military operations, especially against superior forces. If they do that they are no longer peacekeepers and would need a UN resolution to do so...unless it is self defense. So they are useless at something they are not designed or supposed to do?
First of all just because they were outnumbered doesn't they were facing superior forces. They African militiamen, any professional force should be able to tear them apart.
Secondly, what's the point of peacekeepers if they are not allowed to keep the peace. If they can't do anything they're just glorified hostages.
The head of the UNPC contingent is a Nigerian general.
And the Nuer have been a core of the SPLA, as mentioned in the article, they've been fighting for the past 30 years. So they're not without experience.
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 13, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
How much effort and money have you spent, by the way?
It all adds up, Yi.
With your one time donation of $50, you can equip a Southern Sudanese family with five Kalashnikov assault rifles and enough ammunition to make it through the year.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 13, 2012, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 13, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 13, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
How much effort and money have you spent, by the way?
It all adds up, Yi.
With your one time donation of $50, you can equip a Southern Sudanese family with five Kalashnikov assault rifles and enough ammunition to make it through the year.
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Quote from: Ed Anger on January 13, 2012, 08:51:22 PM
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How much you wanna bet bearded dude shot himself in the foot within 30 seconds after this photo was taken?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 13, 2012, 10:43:39 AM
They should merge the tribes and call themselves the New Nuer.
Might as well go for New Nuer Nuest then
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 14, 2012, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 13, 2012, 08:51:22 PM
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How much you wanna bet bearded dude shot himself in the foot within 30 seconds after this photo was taken?
Ax wound is more likely.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 13, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
What? You can't possibly dispute that.
I certainly can. The role of the peacekeepers is not to engage in military operations, especially against superior forces. If they do that they are no longer peacekeepers and would need a UN resolution to do so...unless it is self defense. So they are useless at something they are not designed or supposed to do?
First of all just because they were outnumbered doesn't they were facing superior forces. They African militiamen, any professional force should be able to tear them apart.
Secondly, what's the point of peacekeepers if they are not allowed to keep the peace. If they can't do anything they're just glorified hostages.
Many peacekeepers are from countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan, and other places with poorly trained conscript militaries.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 14, 2012, 09:23:22 AM
Ax wound is more likely.
I guess they out to hunt some dangerous bushes or small trees.
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 14, 2012, 09:23:22 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 14, 2012, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 13, 2012, 08:51:22 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarylandshooter.com%2Far15%2FFunny%2Fmosinnagant.jpg&hash=d57f22a60410dca8e0c475f3f845a785b0288869)
How much you wanna bet bearded dude shot himself in the foot within 30 seconds after this photo was taken?
Ax wound is more likely.
To the knee?
He'll never be a adventurer again.
I used to be an Indian then I took a wound to the knee.
That ax looks suspiciously as a Tomahawk.