Gross! :yuk:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057081/Engaged-couple-discover-brother-sister-parents-meet-days-wedding.html
QuoteEngaged couple discover they are brother and sister when their parents meet just before wedding
Unnamed pair are expecting a child and had been together for five years
By Stewart Maclean
Created 12:49 PM on 3rd November 2011
An engaged couple who dated for five years have been left in turmoil after their families met and they discovered they were brother and sister.
The woman, who is due to give birth next month, is devastated by the discovery that the father of her child is her brother.
The couple, who met at university, had decided they wanted to introduce their single parent families to each other before they got married.
But at the meeting it emerged they were brother and sister who had been separated as small children.
The unnamed South African couple are still in shock after making the discovery last Saturday.
The country's Sowetan newspaper reported that the siblings had been raised separately after their mother and father went through an acrimonious divorce.
It reported: 'Their parents separated when the woman was eight months old and the man was two years old.
'The man's father said he dumped his wife in 1983 because she was cheating on him. The girl was raised by her mother, while her brother was raised by his father.
'Neither of them knew they had a sibling.'
The Sowetan reported that the children grew up separately with their single parents near the towns of Nelspruit and Bushbuckbridge, which lie 50 miles apart in South Africa's eastern Mpumalanga province.
They reportedly met again at university in 2007 and fell in love.
Their two families did not meet throughout their five-year relationship, until they were brought together last week to discuss wedding arrangements.
In many African cultures it is traditional for the family of a male partner to pay a lobola, or 'bride price', to that of his fiancée.
In doing so, the two families normally arrange a summit at which they are formally introduced and able to conduct the negotiations.
But the couple's plans were derailed when their parents came face to face and revealed their bombshell.
The woman told the Sowetan she was devastated by the revelation.
She said: 'It was love at first sight. We were studying together at Tshwane University of Technology in Nelspruit.
'When I first saw him, we connected. We fell in love and since that day, we never looked back.
'All we wanted to do was just to have a family and many kids.
'So you can imagine how shocked we were when they broke the news. We are going to have a child together. We do not know what we will tell him when he grows up.'
The couple said they had decided to split after hearing the news and were discussing how to handle the shock with their separated parents.
The man added: 'We can't think straight at the moment and will just take everything one step at a time.'
Incest remains one of society's last taboos and is an unthinkable concept to most people.
Yet research by the British Medical Journal showed that half of those separated from relatives at a young age experience strong sexual feelings when they are reunited.
Psychiatrists believe the natural repulsion brothers and sisters feel growing up together as children acts as an inhibitor to incest.
But those who miss out on this time can develop powerful, obsessive feelings for their sibling in adulthood.
It's too late. Just roll with it.
Yea if they weren't raised as brother and sister I don't see why it would be a problem.
Sounds like a typical Sims game.
Quote from: Maximus on November 04, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Yea if they weren't raised as brother and sister I don't see why it would be a problem.
The genetic defects of their children would be one big problem, I would think.
Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
Quote from: Maximus on November 04, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Yea if they weren't raised as brother and sister I don't see why it would be a problem.
The genetic defects of their children would be one big problem, I would think.
Per part of the article, it sounds like she is already pregnant.
Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
Quote from: Maximus on November 04, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Yea if they weren't raised as brother and sister I don't see why it would be a problem.
The genetic defects of their children would be one big problem, I would think.
Hapsburgs and Egyptian Pharaohs seemed to get along just fine.
Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
Quote from: Maximus on November 04, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Yea if they weren't raised as brother and sister I don't see why it would be a problem.
The genetic defects of their children would be one big problem, I would think.
Wake me up when they start neutering people with genetically transmitted diseases - until then I don't see why the state has any business telling some adults they cannot have kids and not the others.
That being said, at least your position against their marriage is based in a potential third party harm - Maximus's apparent line of reasoning is completely incomprehensiblw to me since it does not even purport to do that.
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
Incest is yucky, unnatural and does not occur spontaneously in the animal kingdom.
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
A phenotypically similar mate (which a sibling is likely to be) evidences genetic similarity, and hence any offspring will contain more of your genes than if you'd mated with a less similar person, but because of inbreeding problems we exhibit a defense mechanism (although problems are hardly a given, only likelier, at least in a single-generation example).
I've also heard there's a notion that novelty/exoticism is also sought after specifically because of dissimilar genes, which may improve your offspring's fitness.
I guess you just don't want to be in the middle. :hmm:
Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
I have read that too. In the article posted in the OP.
Makes one wish they had a long-lost sibling, huh? Obsessive love sounds pretty great.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
I have. Turned out inbreeding wasn't a problem.
Quote from: The Brain on November 05, 2011, 02:41:56 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
I have. Turned out inbreeding wasn't a problem.
They're still cousins, but I imagine differing chromosome count was probably a more pressing concern.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
A phenotypically similar mate (which a sibling is likely to be) evidences genetic similarity, and hence any offspring will contain more of your genes than if you'd mated with a less similar person, but because of inbreeding problems we exhibit a defense mechanism (although problems are hardly a given, only likelier, at least in a single-generation example).
I've also heard there's a notion that novelty/exoticism is also sought after specifically because of dissimilar genes, which may improve your offspring's fitness.
I guess you just don't want to be in the middle. :hmm:
Yeah, I've read the 'opposites attract' thing too- apparently why yellow fever is so prevailant amongst white kids. Strange stuff.
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 03:11:58 AM
Yeah, I've read the 'opposites attract' thing too- apparently why yellow fever is so prevailant amongst white kids. Strange stuff.
No, that's emoism. If they wanted different they'd go aborigines or pygmies.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:27:57 AM
Makes one wish they had a long-lost sibling, huh? Obsessive love sounds pretty great.
+1
But no, incest is given a favourable view in most circumstances.
Lesbian incest doubly so.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AMHas anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
I didn't check on the account of a very low risk of inbreeding.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 02:01:51 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
Incest is yucky, unnatural and does not occur spontaneously in the animal kingdom.
Fortunately forced sex is found in the animal kingdom, so rape is perfectly natural. Along with slavery, cannibalism and infanticide.
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 03:11:58 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
A phenotypically similar mate (which a sibling is likely to be) evidences genetic similarity, and hence any offspring will contain more of your genes than if you'd mated with a less similar person, but because of inbreeding problems we exhibit a defense mechanism (although problems are hardly a given, only likelier, at least in a single-generation example).
I've also heard there's a notion that novelty/exoticism is also sought after specifically because of dissimilar genes, which may improve your offspring's fitness.
I guess you just don't want to be in the middle. :hmm:
Yeah, I've read the 'opposites attract' thing too- apparently why yellow fever is so prevailant amongst white kids. Strange stuff.
Prevalent in Hollywood, sure. In the genpop, not so much. Racial segregation is still alive and well despite a few cases of perverted abberation.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
Princesca and I are 13th cousins as the most distant possible relation. I would guess most people of similar ethnic descent to their spouse are that close or closer--our common ancestor was a North Carolina planter named Needham Dees who lived in the late 18th century.
Princesca's parents are third cousins, and my dad's parents were first cousins by marriage... in fact they met at the wedding of my grandfather's uncle to my grandmother's aunt. :ph34r:
Old article for the Guardian. I like that the quote about it not being odd for someone to walking on their fiance having sex with their own father. :D
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2002/jan/09/familyandrelationships.features103
Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
The genetic defects of their children would be one big problem, I would think.
I don't think that's likely in a single generation.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 01:59:08 AM
That being said, at least your position against their marriage is based in a potential third party harm - Maximus's apparent line of reasoning is completely incomprehensiblw to me since it does not even purport to do that.
I don't see why it should be a problem for them. It shouldn't be a problem for anyone else for any reason.
I think the effects of inbreeding are often grossly exaggerated for whatever reason. I think it takes multiple instances over successive generations to produce dudes like that trapjawed Spanish king with the Jay Leno chin.
Quote from: Maximus on November 05, 2011, 07:51:58 AM
I don't see why it should be a problem for them. It shouldn't be a problem for anyone else for any reason.
I think he was taking issue with the implied part of your statement that if they had grown up as brother and sister then there would be a problem.
Quote from: garbon on November 05, 2011, 08:15:04 AMI think he was taking issue with the implied part of your statement that if they had grown up as brother and sister then there would be a problem.
Yup. I see this as a consenting adults thing. If one does not care about the genetic defects of potential offspring (as Max apparently doesn't) then as long as both parties are consenting, there is no reason to differentiate between a situation where they grew up together and where they didn't.
The yuck factor should not inform the legal or moral judgement of other people's sexual habits.
Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2011, 08:06:13 AM
I think the effects of inbreeding are often grossly exaggerated for whatever reason. I think it takes multiple instances over successive generations to produce dudes like that trapjawed Spanish king with the Jay Leno chin.
Yeah. And if you consider that for a moment, criminalizing breeding of consenting adults because of a potential risk of genetic defects for the offspring seems quite monstrous by modern human rights standards (that's eugenics pure and simple).
Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2011, 08:06:13 AM
I think the effects of inbreeding are often grossly exaggerated for whatever reason. I think it takes multiple instances over successive generations to produce dudes like that trapjawed Spanish king with the Jay Leno chin.
I saw a documentary about the higher prevalence of certain genetic problems in the British-Pakistani community. It was largely due to arranged marriages from a relatively small number of inter-connected families and cousin marriagees are relatively common. Here the Pakistani community make up about a third of all diagnosed genetic illnesses.
Apparently it's worse here than in Pakistan because the number of available brides/husbands was a lot smaller. Now there's a bit of a campaign by Imams and others to try and stop cousin marriages.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 05, 2011, 08:15:04 AMI think he was taking issue with the implied part of your statement that if they had grown up as brother and sister then there would be a problem.
Yup. I see this as a consenting adults thing. If one does not care about the genetic defects of potential offspring (as Max apparently doesn't) then as long as both parties are consenting, there is no reason to differentiate between a situation where they grew up together and where they didn't.
The yuck factor should not inform the legal or moral judgement of other people's sexual habits.
I read Max's post as "Since they weren't raised as brother and sister they will not have developed the natural instinct to not fuck eachother so there's no problem". I guess if I simply work from the assumption that Max is a rational individual and I don't need to look for reasons to expect the absolute worst of him every time he makes a statement that is in any way ambiguous.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 05, 2011, 08:15:04 AMI think he was taking issue with the implied part of your statement that if they had grown up as brother and sister then there would be a problem.
Yup. I see this as a consenting adults thing. If one does not care about the genetic defects of potential offspring (as Max apparently doesn't) then as long as both parties are consenting, there is no reason to differentiate between a situation where they grew up together and where they didn't.
The yuck factor should not inform the legal or moral judgement of other people's sexual habits.
Perhaps, although I wonder to what extent that consent would be informed by underlying power dynamics between family members.
Quote from: CaligaPrincesca and I are 13th cousins as the most distant possible relation. I would guess most people of similar ethnic descent to their spouse are that close or closer--our common ancestor was a North Carolina planter named Needham Dees who lived in the late 18th century.
Neat. I actually would have guessed the average was closer, though. Maybe in these days of high mobility I was underestimating how many people one is likely to meet.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 08:51:32 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2011, 08:06:13 AM
I think the effects of inbreeding are often grossly exaggerated for whatever reason. I think it takes multiple instances over successive generations to produce dudes like that trapjawed Spanish king with the Jay Leno chin.
Yeah. And if you consider that for a moment, criminalizing breeding of consenting adults because of a potential risk of genetic defects for the offspring seems quite monstrous by modern human rights standards (that's eugenics pure and simple).
Not really. Nazis and Americans gave eugenics a bad name, is all. :(
Quote from: garbonPerhaps, although I wonder to what extent that consent would be informed by underlying power dynamics between family members.
Indeed. This is the more important reason to worry about incest (although of course cases such as these pose the exception).
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 08:45:48 AM
The yuck factor should not inform the legal or moral judgement of other people's sexual habits.
:mellow:
I specifically said it should not be a problem for anyone else. How then could there be a legal or moral judgement?
Ide, I would guess we're more closely related than that... that's just the closest relationship I could find.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AM
Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
I did. My wife and I have a common ancestor in the 17th century so we are 10th some odd cousins.
Didn't find a common ancestor, but Meri's ancestors and mine lived in 2 nearby towns in Connecticut in the 17th century.
Quote from: DGuller on November 05, 2011, 02:22:40 AM
I have read that too. In the article posted in the OP.
:lol:
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 03:38:17 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2011, 02:12:01 AMHas anyone here ever gone to the trouble of finding out how closely related they are to their sexual partners? I'm not much into genealogy. Cal?
I didn't check on the account of a very low risk of inbreeding.
If fanfiction has taught us anything its that you shouldn't count on that.
I'm proud to have read any fan fiction, or any fiction primarily concerned with fans, wind turbines, windmills or ventilators in general.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 01:48:08 AM
I'm proud to have read any fan fiction, or any fiction primarily concerned with fans, wind turbines, windmills or ventilators in general.
Which works in particular have inspired you?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 06, 2011, 02:25:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 01:48:08 AM
I'm proud to have read any fan fiction, or any fiction primarily concerned with fans, wind turbines, windmills or ventilators in general.
Which works in particular have inspired you?
I meant 'Never read any fan fiction', funny how leaving one word out changes the meaning of a whole sentence.
Not even Don Quixote? :hmm:
This have to be one of the most disgusting threads in Languish, ever.
I'm puking.
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 11:45:45 AM
This have to be one of the most disgusting threads in Languish, ever.
I'm puking.
Bah, you and Tim both. What is so disgusting about black people having sex? :huh:
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 11:45:45 AM
This have to be one of the most disgusting threads in Languish, ever.
I'm puking.
Well, that's because we've never copied and pasted Genesis on Languish.
Three times by my count, but I might be forgetting something.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 06, 2011, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 11:45:45 AM
This have to be one of the most disgusting threads in Languish, ever.
I'm puking.
Well, that's because we've never copied and pasted Genesis on Languish.
Three times by my count, but I might be forgetting something.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Flegacy_media%2Fimages%2F200510%2Fmov-002-genesis-torp%2F320x240.jpg&hash=d4445302446e346ef4f0a0aaf767bf2c65019895)
now we have.
There were some shades of Oedipus with David Marcus.
Kirstie Alley was smoking HOTT as a Vulcan.
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 06, 2011, 02:11:23 PM
Kirstie Alley was smoking HOTT as a Vulcan.
Now she is the size of a small moon. Or was. I don't keep track of that shit.
Isn't she dead?
Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2011, 05:19:02 PM
Isn't she dead?
I saw her on TV the other day showing off her new, sculpted 260 pound physique.
Actually she sort of looks like a normal pudgy woman from the waist up. Thighs like bridge pilings though.
Ok. Somehow I thought all North & South stars were dead.
Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2011, 05:23:57 PM
Ok. Somehow I thought all North & South stars were dead.
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2011, 05:23:57 PM
Ok. Somehow I thought all North & South stars were dead.
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
Sadly, I kind of look and sound like John Lovitz.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 06, 2011, 05:23:57 PM
Ok. Somehow I thought all North & South stars were dead.
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
Sadly, I kind of look and sound like John Lovitz.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_hMZm4_BV6dM%2FSYe0P2Wto1I%2FAAAAAAAADJA%2FJmSeMr9Gw1c%2Fs400%2Fjon_lovitz-devil-snl-48.jpg&hash=d93f8b602af57db691db34bc2dd1bce520c474bb)
:lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2011, 05:34:18 PM
Sadly, I kind of look and sound like John Lovitz.
Aren't you much taller?
It stinks.
Like your vagina?
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:36:50 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_hMZm4_BV6dM%2FSYe0P2Wto1I%2FAAAAAAAADJA%2FJmSeMr9Gw1c%2Fs400%2Fjon_lovitz-devil-snl-48.jpg&hash=d93f8b602af57db691db34bc2dd1bce520c474bb)
:lol:
Pretty much.
You've got a much bigger melon than Lovitz.
Quote from: Siege on November 06, 2011, 06:52:55 PM
Like your vagina?
Go back to Syria, you culturally illiterate semi-American.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
:blink:
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2011, 08:27:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
:blink:
I expect you to get the joke. Or else.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2011, 06:55:56 PM
You've got a much bigger melon than Lovitz.
Similar nose, double chin, and hairline. I am often mistaken for a Jew. I think there are some Jews in my family line. Once when I wore a beard I was mistaken for a Rabbi. By someone I already knew.
Quote from: Martinus on November 05, 2011, 02:01:51 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 05, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
Interesting.
I have read that this is quite common (well, as common as such a weird situation can be), if siblings aren't raised together they will be attracted to each other for some reason.
Incest is yucky, unnatural and does not occur spontaneously in the animal kingdom.
:D
dramatic irony
Quote from: Razgovory on November 07, 2011, 08:57:07 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 06, 2011, 06:55:56 PM
You've got a much bigger melon than Lovitz.
Similar nose, double chin, and hairline. I am often mistaken for a Jew. I think there are some Jews in my family line. Once when I wore a beard I was mistaken for a Rabbi. By someone I already knew.
Well, your presiding over a Bris probably confused 'em. ;)
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2011, 08:27:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2011, 05:26:36 PM
Morgan Fairchild is still kickin'. And married to John Lovitz. yes.
:blink:
Coulda been worse. Coulda been Alan Cranston.
Or Lamar Cranston.