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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Oexmelin on November 02, 2011, 07:40:30 PM

Title: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Oexmelin on November 02, 2011, 07:40:30 PM
From cbc.ca: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2011/11/01/north-acient-coin-found.html

QuoteArcheologists have unearthed a coin more than 300 years old northwest of Carmacks, Yukon, which provides a link between 17th-century China, Russian traders and First Nations people.

The find came in July as a team checked the route of a proposed mining road for the Western Copper and Gold Corporation's planned Casino gold mine.

The Chinese coin, which is round with a square hole in the centre, helps fill in the blanks on some pre-Gold Rush history.

James Mooney, from Ecofor Consulting Ltd., and his team were doing the heritage impact assessment for the proposed mining road.

"I was less than a metre from our archeologist Kirby Booker when she turned over the first shovel of topsoil and I caught sight of something dangling from the turf. It was the coin — the neatest discovery I've ever been part of," Mooney said.

Mooney believes there's a logical explanation for how the coin found its way deep into the Yukon interior hundreds of years ago.

"The first documented accounts of foreigners getting into Tlingit territory were in the mid-1700s. Russian traders [were] coming in and they were collecting sea otter pelts and some of the inland furs, and they would trade things like glass beads, silks and coins," he said.

Evidence Chinese market connected with Yukon First Nations

Heritage Canada says the coin was minted between 1667 and 1671. It says the coin adds to the body of evidence that the Chinese market connected with Yukon First Nations through Russian and coastal Tlingit trade.

This trade happened throughout the 17th and 18th centuries and possibly as early as the 15th century.

The Tlingit tightly controlled direct trade with the interior First Nations through the Chilkoot Pass, which is one of the few entry points through the Coastal Mountains to the interior.

Mooney said the location of the find, on a bluff overlooking a river and creek source, is a likely place for a traveller to have rested or camped between Dyea and Fort Selkirk.

The coin is different from others of its type because it has four additional small holes above each corner of the central square.

"The extra holes could have been made in China. Coins were sometimes nailed to a gate, door or ridgepole for good luck. Alternatively, First Nations might have made the extra holes to attach them to clothing," said Mooney.

The coins could have been used as decoration or sewn in layers like roofing shingles onto hide shirts to protect warriors from arrows.

3rd ancient coin found in Yukon

The coins are more common along the coast, but only three have been found in Yukon.

A matrix archeologist found another one in the Kwanlin Dun region this past summer. That was dated between 1724 and 1735. An even older coin was found in 1993 by Beaver Creek, which was dated between 1403 and 1424.

The most recent find will be held with the Yukon archeological collection. Mooney and his team are recommending the road builders avoid the site and that further study be done there.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 02, 2011, 07:46:58 PM
This is a blatant usurpation of Tim's news postification prerogative.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Barrister on November 02, 2011, 09:27:07 PM
Cool story, but not earth-shattering by any stretch.

As pointed it it's certainly common knowledge that the Russians were trading along the coast at the time, and also common knowledge of the T'lingit (pronounced Klinkit) control over the passes (which lasted up until after the gold rush of course).  It's not beyond the realm of possibility a Chinese coin would make it up over the pass.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Queequeg on November 02, 2011, 10:00:24 PM
Russians traded extensively with Manchus and First Nation peoples. 
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Caliga on November 03, 2011, 05:27:23 AM
OMG 1421 theory: PROVEN. :cool:
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Razgovory on November 03, 2011, 05:31:51 AM
Or it could be that Mono just lost some change.  He's probably fly over to Canada to get it.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Valmy on November 03, 2011, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 03, 2011, 05:27:23 AM
OMG 1421 theory: PROVEN. :cool:

:lol:
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Caliga on November 03, 2011, 08:32:25 AM
I eagerly await Gavin Menzies's press release.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Viking on November 03, 2011, 08:51:03 AM
OK, so a Chinese coin minted 20 years after the first group of Russian traders arrived in Alaska is found in Alaska proves that Russians traded with both China and native Alaskans.

Cool.

Caliga, stop your pseudoscience.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Valmy on November 03, 2011, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 03, 2011, 08:51:03 AM
OK, so a Chinese coin minted 20 years after the first group of Russian traders arrived in Alaska is found in Alaska proves that Russians traded with both China and native Alaskans.

Not that there was any controversy about this but it is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Barrister on November 03, 2011, 08:57:17 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 03, 2011, 08:51:03 AM
OK, so a Chinese coin minted 20 years after the first group of Russian traders arrived in Alaska is found in Alaska proves that Russians traded with both China and native Alaskans.

Cool.

Caliga, stop your pseudoscience.

It also proves (or gives further proof, since we already knew this) just how extensive inter-Indian trade was.  The location found was a few hundred kms inland, and in the territory of a completely different first nation.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Razgovory on November 03, 2011, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 03, 2011, 08:57:17 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 03, 2011, 08:51:03 AM
OK, so a Chinese coin minted 20 years after the first group of Russian traders arrived in Alaska is found in Alaska proves that Russians traded with both China and native Alaskans.

Cool.

Caliga, stop your pseudoscience.

It also proves (or gives further proof, since we already knew this) just how extensive inter-Indian trade was.  The location found was a few hundred kms inland, and in the territory of a completely different first nation.

Well the coin could have been floating around for over a hundred years before it found it's resting place.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Ed Anger on November 03, 2011, 11:24:15 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUK2p0.jpg&hash=3d1cf91c4a13105e3a4707037f5df1a08c1cee28)
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 03, 2011, 11:51:59 AM
Quote from: Caliga on November 03, 2011, 05:27:23 AM
OMG 1421 theory: PROVEN. :cool:
I knew you were going to post that!  :D
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Brazen on November 03, 2011, 12:08:04 PM
How about it was a lucky old coin carried by the Chinese workforce imported for gold-panning or rail-road building and just dropped off from those extra holes drilled in to tie round his neck?
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Barrister on November 03, 2011, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: Brazen on November 03, 2011, 12:08:04 PM
How about it was a lucky old coin carried by the Chinese workforce imported for gold-panning or rail-road building and just dropped off from those extra holes drilled in to tie round his neck?

Don't think there were any chinese workers imported.  It was a gold rush - tens of thousands of people were streamed into Yukon in 1898 and in fact many of them were unemployed once they arrived.  there were too many people and too few jobs.

There might have been Chinese workers used on the railroad, but that only runs from Skagway to Whitehorse.  This was northwest of Carmacks, 200-300km north of Whitehorse.

Plus that was a pretty old coin even in 1898.
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Caliga on November 03, 2011, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: Brazen on November 03, 2011, 12:08:04 PM
How about it was a lucky old coin carried by the Chinese workforce imported for gold-panning or rail-road building and just dropped off from those extra holes drilled in to tie round his neck?
Not possible.  Everyone knows that coins disintegrate exactly one year after they've been minted unless they've been transported to some exotic locale and then buried.  Therefore, 1421 theory = correct. :smarty:
Title: Re: Chinese coin found in Yukon
Post by: Siege on November 03, 2011, 08:12:31 PM
I disagree with the dating.