:nelson:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/06/us/california-robbery-porn-bust/index.html
QuoteBy Kim Hutcherson, CNN
updated 11:32 AM EST, Fri October 7, 2011
Police arrest man for child pornography after tipoff from burglars
(CNN) -- A central California man has been arrested for possession of child pornography, thanks to a tip from burglars who robbed the man's property, authorities said.
Last month, a juvenile and a 19-year-old illegally accessed the property of Kraig Stockard, 54, of Delhi, California, according to a statement from Deputy Tom MacKenzie of the Merced County Sheriff's Department. They broke into Stockard's barn and stole about 50 CDs they believed were blank.
Stockard filed a police report on the incident on September 12, according to MacKenzie.
But the young people who stole the CDs were in for a surprise. When they began putting the discs into their computer, they discovered that some of them contained pornographic images of children, the statement said.
Despite having obtained the CDs under decidedly shady circumstances, the pair decided to report Stockard to the police.
A search warrant was served and three more computers and three laptops were taken from Stockard's home, along with several external hard drives. Police said there were thousands of pictures and movies on the CDs -- more than 30 of the 50 discs had child pornography on them.
Investigators said Stockard has been downloading indecent images of children since 2004. He has admitted possessing the pornography on the CDs but has refused to say whether there is pornography on the computers, they said. Stockard was booked for possession of child pornography and posted $25,000 bail.
The two burglar suspects who reported Stockard have not been arrested.
Their case has been sent to the Merced County District Attorney's Office for review. When reached for comment, a press officer told CNN the office could not comment on the case because one of the informants in question is a juvenile.
Should evidence obtained as a result of a crime be used like this? If so, what prevents the police from using "independent" criminals (burglars, hackers, etc.) to obtain evidence against people they would not be otherwise able to get?
Death penalty!
Wonder how the kids reported it.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 09, 2011, 05:19:08 AM
The two burglar suspects who reported Stockard have not been arrested.
Big Brother loves snitches.
What a mess.
Yeah...wonder about the legal ramifications of this one.
I would imagine he'll escape punishment.
Doesn't the fruity poison thingy apply here?
DG - no. The fourth amendment only applies when the state - itself or through other agents - acts. If the cops had told the burglars to go raid this guy, there might be a problem. As it stand ls though he's pretty screwed.
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 12:49:51 PM
DG - no. The fourth amendment only applies when the state - itself or through other agents - acts. If the cops had told the burglars to go raid this guy, there might be a problem. As it stand ls though he's pretty screwed.
Considering these burglars are going to escape punishment, surely you can see how this can be abused by the state, right?
What's next? A bunch of thugs beating up a guy torturing some confession out of him, and then going to the police to report that, resulting in them going free and he getting jailed? Or hackers breaking into a bank's files, stealing a lot of shit and finding evidence of wrongdoing, which they report to the police and go free. This is a pretty fucked up precedent, if it holds up.
Or, imagine you're a mafia hit man. As you break into the home and are putting .22 rounds into the victim's head, you notice that his daughter is downloading pirated software. You report it to police, and get away with murder while the daughter is locked up.
Quote from: DGuller on October 09, 2011, 12:57:46 PM
Or, imagine you're a mafia hit man. As you break into the home and are putting .22 rounds into the victim's head, you notice that his daughter is downloading pirated software. You report it to police, and get away with murder while the daughter is locked up.
I don't think they lock you up for pirated software, even in a country with as fucked-up a legal system as the US.
OK, the daughter is smoking pot instead of pirating software.
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Burglary is worse a crime than looking at pictures on the internet. In any society, other than our moral panic/hysterical one, this story would have not happened.
Something's not right here. Who the hell burgles a property for blank CDs??
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 12:52:11 PM
A bunch of thugs beating up a guy torturing some confession out of him, and then going to the police to report that, resulting in them going free and he getting jailed?
What proof would the thugs have of the confession? :huh:
I like the idea of civic minded criminals. Like when Mobsters beat up Nazi sympathizers in the 1930's and '40's.
Quote from: Warspite on October 09, 2011, 01:30:09 PM
Something's not right here. Who the hell burgles a property for blank CDs??
Vigilantes looking for child porn of course.
I did see a scene from The Chicago Code where one of the mobsters with some pull in the PD was using a box of child porn to blackmail somebody. :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Burglary is worse a crime than looking at pictures on the internet. In any society, other than our moral panic/hysterical one, this story would have not happened.
For once, I have to agree with Mart.
Quote from: DGuller on October 09, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Burglary is worse a crime than looking at pictures on the internet. In any society, other than our moral panic/hysterical one, this story would have not happened.
For once, I have to agree with Mart.
Burglary is a victimless crime.
Quote from: garbon on October 09, 2011, 01:36:54 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 12:52:11 PM
A bunch of thugs beating up a guy torturing some confession out of him, and then going to the police to report that, resulting in them going free and he getting jailed?
What proof would the thugs have of the confession? :huh:
They could find out where the bodies are buried, for example.
Sort of don't agree. Receiving child pornography is basically taking part in rape and sex slavery. Burglarizing a house is taking part in theft. One is worse than the other, as one is a crime against a person that can never be truly made whole, the other a crime against replaceable property*. But I can see where reasonable minds could differ.
*Although violating the privacy and perception of safety of another could be argued to be a crime against the person as well. Ho hum.
I'm not really going into which one is worse. I just don't see how you can let the prosecution use this evidence at all.
Quote from: Iormlund on October 09, 2011, 02:30:24 PM
I'm not really going into which one is worse. I just don't see how you can let the prosecution use this evidence at all.
Private actor. I'd have to look it up to go into further details, although I
think I remember a case where private actors kidnapped a wanted guy from Mexico and dropped him off in front of police station in the U.S., and courts were okay with his prosecution despite the fact that his arrest would have been ridiculously unlawful if performed by state actors.
The difference is, presumably, that the constitution protects people from state abuses, but not (in rare exceptions, like the 13th Amendment) private ones. Mart ain't wrong when he says there's a danger of collusion, though.
Quote from: DGuller on October 09, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Burglary is worse a crime than looking at pictures on the internet. In any society, other than our moral panic/hysterical one, this story would have not happened.
For once, I have to agree with Mart.
What if the pictures are national secrets? You know, espionage stuff. How to refine Uranium and build an atomic bomb?
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:46:19 PM
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
It's more of an electro-mechanical problem, really.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:46:19 PM
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
I give evening classes.
Quote from: Neil on October 09, 2011, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:46:19 PM
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
It's more of an electro-mechanical problem, really.
Indeed. I mean, nuclear engineering in a general sense. For a simple Gadget-type A-bomb, I understand that the timing and placement of the conventional explosives pose the engineering problem. And if you can do that, it's not too hard to suss out a fusion-boosted fission device and achieve a truly destructive weapon.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 09, 2011, 02:44:43 PM
What if the pictures are national secrets? You know, espionage stuff. How to refine Uranium and build an atomic bomb?
Then you quietly make the guy vanish. And you go to jail if you fuck up and someone finds out.
A faggot protesting the right to gawk at child porn? But I thought there was no link between paedophilia and homosexuality. :hmm:
Quote from: Warspite on October 09, 2011, 01:30:09 PM
Something's not right here. Who the hell burgles a property for blank CDs??
My first thought as well.
OTOH I don't currently have any blank CDs and could use some...
But then again, my laptop's CD drive sucks and rarely succeeds at burning.
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 09, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
In your parade of horribles, you overlook that most crimes would not be given a pass here.
Burglary is worse a crime than looking at pictures on the internet. In any society, other than our moral panic/hysterical one, this story would have not happened.
Depends on "what" pictures your looking at. :lmfao:
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 09, 2011, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:46:19 PM
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
It's more of an electro-mechanical problem, really.
Indeed. I mean, nuclear engineering in a general sense. For a simple Gadget-type A-bomb, I understand that the timing and placement of the conventional explosives pose the engineering problem. And if you can do that, it's not too hard to suss out a fusion-boosted fission device and achieve a truly destructive weapon.
No, that's actually fairly difficult. The theory is easy, but the engineering is very, very difficult.
Besides, a Gadget would still be truly destructive.
I thought the big difficulty in making a nuclear weapon was procuring the materials, which are difficult to refine and the secrets of how to are jealously guarded. Actually constructing the weapon is a bit easier, (though not simple. I imagine a major University would have the expertize to pull it off).
Quote from: Neil on October 09, 2011, 05:37:57 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 09, 2011, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:46:19 PM
I know how to build an atomic bomb. Well, that is, if I had the requisite nuclear engineering background I think I could figure it out. I'd bet a coke Brain knows how or could easily learn how to build an atomic bomb.
It's more of an electro-mechanical problem, really.
Indeed. I mean, nuclear engineering in a general sense. For a simple Gadget-type A-bomb, I understand that the timing and placement of the conventional explosives pose the engineering problem. And if you can do that, it's not too hard to suss out a fusion-boosted fission device and achieve a truly destructive weapon.
No, that's actually fairly difficult. The theory is easy, but the engineering is very, very difficult.
Besides, a Gadget would still be truly destructive.
Is it? Huh, I always thought it was reasonably easy to make a Teller-Ulam. (I mean, not like "make a car" easy, but compared to, say, building a modern aircraft.)
I doubt it. Even the simplest design requires lot of different experts. The easiest design is probably a "Little Boy" type bomb that uses a gun mechanism. Still it requires complex engineering.
Quote from: Warspite on October 09, 2011, 01:30:09 PM
Something's not right here. Who the hell burgles a property for blank CDs??
A bunch of kids just out for fun/picking on the local weirdo.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on October 09, 2011, 02:30:24 PM
I'm not really going into which one is worse. I just don't see how you can let the prosecution use this evidence at all.
Private actor. I'd have to look it up to go into further details, although I think I remember a case where private actors kidnapped a wanted guy from Mexico and dropped him off in front of police station in the U.S., and courts were okay with his prosecution despite the fact that his arrest would have been ridiculously unlawful if performed by state actors.
The difference is, presumably, that the constitution protects people from state abuses, but not (in rare exceptions, like the 13th Amendment) private ones. Mart ain't wrong when he says there's a danger of collusion, though.
Pretty sure that there's plenty of precedent that material illegaly obtained by a private actor can be used in prosecuting a 3rd party. Don't see why people are acting like this is something new.
Quote from: dps on October 09, 2011, 11:44:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on October 09, 2011, 02:30:24 PM
I'm not really going into which one is worse. I just don't see how you can let the prosecution use this evidence at all.
Private actor. I'd have to look it up to go into further details, although I think I remember a case where private actors kidnapped a wanted guy from Mexico and dropped him off in front of police station in the U.S., and courts were okay with his prosecution despite the fact that his arrest would have been ridiculously unlawful if performed by state actors.
The difference is, presumably, that the constitution protects people from state abuses, but not (in rare exceptions, like the 13th Amendment) private ones. Mart ain't wrong when he says there's a danger of collusion, though.
Pretty sure that there's plenty of precedent that material illegaly obtained by a private actor can be used in prosecuting a 3rd party. Don't see why people are acting like this is something new.
Law & Order has had countless episodes involving it. :D
Quote from: dps on October 09, 2011, 11:44:02 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on October 09, 2011, 02:30:24 PM
I'm not really going into which one is worse. I just don't see how you can let the prosecution use this evidence at all.
Private actor. I'd have to look it up to go into further details, although I think I remember a case where private actors kidnapped a wanted guy from Mexico and dropped him off in front of police station in the U.S., and courts were okay with his prosecution despite the fact that his arrest would have been ridiculously unlawful if performed by state actors.
The difference is, presumably, that the constitution protects people from state abuses, but not (in rare exceptions, like the 13th Amendment) private ones. Mart ain't wrong when he says there's a danger of collusion, though.
Pretty sure that there's plenty of precedent that material illegaly obtained by a private actor can be used in prosecuting a 3rd party. Don't see why people are acting like this is something new.
I believe there is, yeah. I'd just have to look it up. Which I won't. :P
FBI is going to love this thread.
Quote from: Martinus on October 09, 2011, 05:24:28 AM
Should evidence obtained as a result of a crime be used like this? If so, what prevents the police from using "independent" criminals (burglars, hackers, etc.) to obtain evidence against people they would not be otherwise able to get?
Off the top of my head, exclusion of the evidence obtained, and a civil lawsuit against the police.
Quote from: Solmyr on October 10, 2011, 04:31:08 AM
FBI is going to love this thread.
There's absolutely no evidence that anyone in this thread is involved in selling nuclear secrets to Iran.
If I'm not an FBI watchlist already, I'd be amazed. I talk all sorts of shit here and elsewhere. I hope they like reading a lot of blather about comic books in between vague not-legally-threats.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 09, 2011, 06:42:19 PM
Is it? Huh, I always thought it was reasonably easy to make a Teller-Ulam. (I mean, not like "make a car" easy, but compared to, say, building a modern aircraft.)
The materials are a problem. The engineering is a problem. It's not like you can just bolt an atom bomb to a case with a tamper and some tritrium and have it explode.