Besides the usual requirements of cheap and powerful, I also want the computer to be somewhat quiet. Not silent, but I can no longer stand sitting next to a tornado.
Computer A (customised build)
Intel i7 2600 (3.4GHz x4)
Gigabyte/Asus/Intel B3 motherboard
8GB DDR3-1333 PC3-10600
nVIDIA Geforce GTX560 1GB GDDR5
1TB SATA 6Gbps hard disk
Blueray Combo
Cooler Master 550 Case
Gigabyte 720w (80 plus)
Corsair H60 liquid cooling heatsink
Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)
Price: US$1,538
Computer B (Dell)
Intel i7 2600 (8MB cache) overclocked turbo boost to 3.9GHz
8GB (2x4) DDR3 SDRAM 1333 MHz memory
SLI dual 1GB nVIDEA Geforce GTX 460
1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s harddrive with native command queueing
24x DVD RW with dual layer write capability
Matte Black Chassis 875w powersupply
Liquid cooling heatsink
Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit
Price: US$1,897
CPU: seems similar. B has a higher clock speed. I have serious reservations about the "overclock" bit, whatever that means.
RAM: are these the same? Is 8GB enough?
Video card. "Dual" means 2 cards, right? 2 must be much better than 1? 560 should be better than 460 though. Which one is better?
Harddrive. Is 6.0Gb/s much better than 3.0?
Powersupply. Is 875w much better than 720w?
The customised build guys say that I can put whatever I want in it. Any suggestions to make it better without making it too expensive? Any ideas to make it less noisy?
Which option is better? Should I trust Dell which make increasingly noisy computers for me? Or a couple of young guys sitting in a small shop in the alley?
Thanks.
Apple: Think Different.
Cheap? none of that is cheap.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 05:52:27 AM
Cheap? none of that is cheap.
I once bought the cheapest stuff. Within a year I could not run the programmes that I wanted it to run. So I had to buy another one. I swore that I would not make the same mistake twice.
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 07:21:40 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 05:52:27 AM
Cheap? none of that is cheap.
I once bought the cheapest stuff. Within a year I could not run the programmes that I wanted it to run. So I had to buy another one. I swore that I would not make the same mistake twice.
That's ok. Just don't pretend it's cheap.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 07:28:19 AM
That's ok. Just don't pretend it's cheap.
I don't. It is just that my IT colleagues mostly use macs, so they call me cheap :P
IT guys not using Linux? HK is weird.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 07:48:45 AM
IT guys not using Linux? HK is weird.
I am an IT guy too :contract:
See, most of them don't know much IT. Someone with a theology degree fresh out of university can become a programmer in the civil service. They just manage the contractors.
I'd love to answer your questions, Grey Fox. But I also would like to hear some advice or answers to my questions :)
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 02:47:09 AM
CPU: seems similar. B has a higher clock speed. I have serious reservations about the "overclock" bit, whatever that means.
RAM: are these the same? Is 8GB enough?
Video card. "Dual" means 2 cards, right? 2 must be much better than 1? 560 should be better than 460 though. Which one is better?
Harddrive. Is 6.0Gb/s much better than 3.0?
Powersupply. Is 875w much better than 720w?
The customised build guys say that I can put whatever I want in it. Any suggestions to make it better without making it too expensive? Any ideas to make it less noisy?
Which option is better? Should I trust Dell which make increasingly noisy computers for me? Or a couple of young guys sitting in a small shop in the alley?
Thanks.
It's the same CPU, one is in the default speed, the other is going a little faster. With proper heat dissipation there is no down side.
We'd would need more information on the RAM to say it's the same but they are pretty similar. 8gb is enough, unless you like to edit big images.
Yes, Dual means 2 video cards. The 560 should be better, it'll atleast be more recent.
Harddrive, 6 is double 3. Should be faster. I don't know how much better is it. I've never use a SSD.
Powersupply wise both should be plenty, altho having enough is very important.
Note that Watercooling is not quiet. There are still fans involved. Want to reduce noise fan? Get a case with good airflow, big fans (23cm) & great after market CPU heatsink that will dissipate heat without having to turn a 12mm fan at 14000rpm.
Thanks :)
You did pick a nice case there in the Silencio 500.
But since this is a new computer build, I will take the opportunity to recommend you the HAF 932 full tower, or it's little brother the HAF 912 medium tower. Both made by Cooler Master.
I have the first, my father in law as the second & they are trully wonderfull.
They now have the HAF X, it's evolution but I don't know anyone who has one.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 08:43:41 AM
You did pick a nice case there in the Silencio 500.
But since this is a new computer build, I will take the opportunity to recommend you the HAF 932 full tower, or it's little brother the HAF 912 medium tower. Both made by Cooler Master.
I have the first, my father in law as the second & they are trully wonderfull.
Even better advice. Thanks :)
Lets see...
I'm intrigued by your coment that you want your computer to be quiet. Quite often that is something that is ignored by people on languish when doing their custom builds, from what I can tell.
Macs are in fact very quiet, but I know you won't buy one so I'll skip that point.
silentpcreview.com is the place to go for everything about silent PCs. The big keys to a silent PC is #1 the case - you need an insulated case with good airflow and large, slow-moving fans. I see that silentpc actually reviewed your case, and called it "the most affordable case that we can describe as quiet with a straight face.", though there are other more expensive cases they like a lot more.
The next thing to worry about is heat - if your machine is just pumping out so much heat you have to get your fans spinning up high to keep them cool. There your graphics card might let you down. I think you might want to go Radeon. From what I've read NVidia makes the most powerful cards, but they make the most heat too. Radeon supposedly makes the most "efficient" cards - that is the best graphics for the least heat.
You definitely don't want the SLI in your suggested Dell - double the cards means double the noise.
Plus you want a cooling system that is effective, but not with loud fans. I see your system actually has liquid cooling. Again from what I've read liquid cooling is actually pretty loud, if measured in dB. Now you might like the sound - it won't sound like sitting next to a tornado, but rather like sitting next to a fish tank - but it won't be quiet. I think you'd be better off with an either passive, or slow-spinning air cooled CPU cooler.
Overclocked means that they take the same CPU and fiddle with the settings so that it runs faster - which also means it runs hotter. With a modern i7 you frankly won't come close to using all of your CPU power anyways, so I'd avoid overclocking.
875 vs 720? You want a power supply that gives you enough power. Thats it. It's not about max wattage - its about whether it's enough. Your custom build PS is "80plus" which means its energy efficient - which means it runs cooler.
What else can you do? SSD HD. Yes it is more money per GB. But its many times faster, and yes - it's absolutely quiet. I've read a hundred times its the single most noticeable upgrade you can make to your computer.
I've soured on Dells, having had a lot of problems with recent laptops for both myself and my inlaws. Plus I think you're right - that Dell will be very noisy.
Thanks a ton BB. In particular for not persuading me to buy a Mac ;)
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 08:55:05 AM
Thanks a ton BB. In particular for not persuading me to buy a Mac ;)
Marti got to it first. :(
Seriously though - because Apple designs the entire system, and because noise is the kind of thing they do care about, Macs are extremely quiet. My Mac Pro doesn't make a sound other than drive noise (once I got rid of the noisy 8800GT) - and if I switched to a SSD HD it's be even quieter.
You can even install Windows on it if you wish. I've heard of people doing exactly that - buying a Mac, then only having Windows on it.
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 09:00:20 AM
You can even install Windows on it if you wish. I've heard of people doing exactly that - buying a Mac, then only having Windows on it.
Actually, that is something that I am willing to explore. My single biggest problem with macs is that they don't have windows and I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT live with the mac OS.
But I suspect that the price will be a deal breaker anyway.
Not for what you're willing to pay.
$1699 would get you a 27" iMac, 2.7GHz Quad i5 processor, 1TB HDD, Radeon 6770M graphics, 4GB RAM.
Remember to add in the cost of Windows.
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 09:13:09 AM
Not for what you're willing to pay.
$1699 would get you a 27" iMac, 2.7GHz Quad i5 processor, 1TB HDD, Radeon 6770M graphics, 4GB RAM.
Remember to add in the cost of Windows.
Forget it.
Though, in this part of the world, the cost of windows is...not a concern :shifty:
Windows 8 is going to suck for Mono.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 09:27:48 AM
Windows 8 is going to suck for Mono.
There is a new version coming out? What's wrong with it? :unsure:
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 09:17:24 AM
Though, in this part of the world, the cost of windows is...not a concern :shifty:
What part of the world is this, Hungary?
Quote from: DGuller on October 07, 2011, 09:32:13 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 09:17:24 AM
Though, in this part of the world, the cost of windows is...not a concern :shifty:
What part of the world is this, Hungary?
The land of the free ;)
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 09:27:48 AM
Windows 8 is going to suck for Mono.
There is a new version coming out? What's wrong with it? :unsure:
Eventually. I expect it'll be late 2012. Because microsoft is making sure that windows slowly creeps towards looking like Mac & a lot like iOS.
This is just a research question for now, but how far off Macs are from being a high quality heavy-duty gaming rig? I have to say that after getting iPad, and seeing the quality of design and thinking that goes into it, I no longer reject the concept of owning a Mac out of hand. However, it would be useless to me if it can't do heavy duty gaming without compatibility or performance issues.
Quote from: DGuller on October 07, 2011, 12:02:16 PM
This is just a research question for now, but how far off Macs are from being a high quality heavy-duty gaming rig? I have to say that after getting iPad, and seeing the quality of design and thinking that goes into it, I no longer reject the concept of owning a Mac out of hand. However, it would be useless to me if it can't do heavy duty gaming without compatibility or performance issues.
On macOS? None.
You going to need to install Windows & then, well it's like owning a regular Windows machine.
Quote from: DGuller on October 07, 2011, 12:02:16 PM
This is just a research question for now, but how far off Macs are from being a high quality heavy-duty gaming rig? I have to say that after getting iPad, and seeing the quality of design and thinking that goes into it, I no longer reject the concept of owning a Mac out of hand. However, it would be useless to me if it can't do heavy duty gaming without compatibility or performance issues.
As pointed out, there are still very few games being released for OS X (and many of those which are are several months late).
If you go into Bootcamp though...
If your mark is "high quality heavy duty" gaming rig, the answer is still probably no.
When you go Mac, you're limited in the options for graphics cards, which is usually the biggest factor in gaming performance. Take my Mac Pro, for example - the biggest baddest vid card out there I can get is an Radeon 5870, which has been out for 2+ years already. If you go iMac The best vid card you can get is a Radeon 6970M - which is a laptop graphics card, albeit a good one.
But if you want merely a "good" gaming rig, the Mac is just fine. My Mac Pro with 5770 (which isn't the big bad 5870) runs most games at max settings, and runs all games I throw at it at more than acceptable settings. I believe all but the lowest end MacBooks have discrete graphics cards which provide good performance.
I think Macs of all shapes are incredibly well designed machines in their own right, even putting aside OS X, so there's some merit to buying one even if you're going to just put Windows on it. But if you want a cheap computer that won't work (Apple doesn't make cheap crap), and if you want the absolute highest end it won't work (Apple upgrades on their own schedule).
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 07, 2011, 10:28:56 AM
Eventually. I expect it'll be late 2012. Because microsoft is making sure that windows slowly creeps towards looking like Mac & a lot like iOS.
This is a tragedy for mankind :weep:
I don't understand. Windows, as far as I am concerned, is not far from being perfect. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 12:18:21 PM
When you go Mac, you're limited in the options for graphics cards, which is usually the biggest factor in gaming performance. Take my Mac Pro, for example - the biggest baddest vid card out there I can get is an Radeon 5870, which has been out for 2+ years already. If you go iMac The best vid card you can get is a Radeon 6970M - which is a laptop graphics card, albeit a good one.
Thanks for giving me excellent arguments never to buy a mac :contract: These are actually useful because my wife is a huge Apple fan, and she tries her utmost to convince me to go mac :sleep:
Take a look at Sony's L-series. It's basically a computer in a flat-screen monitor. Plus it's touchscreen!
I don't have any actual experience with it, but it looked cool in the store and wasn't too expensive, like ~$1100.
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 08:46:27 AM
You definitely don't want the SLI in your suggested Dell - double the cards means double the noise.
Just to add something for Mono:
SLI/Crossfire (AMD) will give you at best 1.5x the speed of a single card.
What you get is better anti-aliasing (better image quality).
And this is useful for some games, not all. It's worthless in EU3 or Civ V, say.
For FPS or brand new, high profile strategy games, it has it's uses.
QuoteI think you'd be better off with an either passive, or slow-spinning air cooled CPU cooler.
Overclocked means that they take the same CPU and fiddle with the settings so that it runs faster - which also means it runs hotter. With a modern i7 you frankly won't come close to using all of your CPU power anyways, so I'd avoid overclocking.
Liquid cooling is better for overclocking. You can achieve insane speed with liquid cooling for the CPU and GPU.
Also, don't pay for an overclocked processor, overclock it yourself with the BIOS.
Quote
What else can you do? SSD HD. Yes it is more money per GB. But its many times faster, and yes - it's absolutely quiet. I've read a hundred times its the single most noticeable upgrade you can make to your computer.
A SATA 3 will give Mono good performance, and be relatively quiet.
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 12:18:21 PM
When you go Mac, you're limited in the options for graphics cards, which is usually the biggest factor in gaming performance. Take my Mac Pro, for example - the biggest baddest vid card out there I can get is an Radeon 5870, which has been out for 2+ years already. If you go iMac The best vid card you can get is a Radeon 6970M - which is a laptop graphics card, albeit a good one.
Thanks for giving me excellent arguments never to buy a mac :contract: These are actually useful because my wife is a huge Apple fan, and she tries her utmost to convince me to go mac :sleep:
Way to cherry pick my quote. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Barrister on October 08, 2011, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on October 07, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2011, 12:18:21 PM
When you go Mac, you're limited in the options for graphics cards, which is usually the biggest factor in gaming performance. Take my Mac Pro, for example - the biggest baddest vid card out there I can get is an Radeon 5870, which has been out for 2+ years already. If you go iMac The best vid card you can get is a Radeon 6970M - which is a laptop graphics card, albeit a good one.
Thanks for giving me excellent arguments never to buy a mac :contract: These are actually useful because my wife is a huge Apple fan, and she tries her utmost to convince me to go mac :sleep:
Way to cherry pick my quote. :rolleyes:
I think he just got to the heart of the matter by discarding the fluff.