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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM

Title: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/05/postal-service-facing-default-shut-down-without-congressional-intervention/

Quote
Postal Service Facing Default, Shutdown Without Congressional Intervention

Published September 05, 2011

AP

Postal Service mailboxes are seen awaiting disposal Sept. 1 in San Jose, Calif.

The head of the U.S. Postal Service said in an interview that the organization will default -- perhaps as early as this winter -- unless Congress intervenes.

Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe's comments reflect a well-known reality that the Postal Service is in dire financial straits. The rise of email and online bill-paying has steadily eroded its profits over the years while labor costs soar. Donahoe is calling for a host of changes, including the elimination of Saturday delivery, to close a deficit projected to top $9 billion this year.

But he said Congress needs to step in to help keep the service alive.

"Our situation is extremely serious," he told The New York Times. "If Congress doesn't act, we will default."

According to The New York Times, the service will be unable to make a $5.5 billion retiree health care payment later this month and is expected to run out of money to pay workers and other expenses early next year. This could force a shutdown in delivery.

Averting that outcome doesn't necessarily mean a bailout. One thing the service wants from Congress is a law to effectively nullify a contract prohibition on layoffs -- part of Donahoe's plan involves laying off 120,000 workers, but he needs Congress' help.

Some in Congress are also looking at letting the organization recover billions in supposedly overpaid pension payments.

Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: The Brain on September 05, 2011, 11:08:58 AM
Ah, the Third World.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Zanza on September 05, 2011, 11:18:43 AM
Creative destruction at work.

I wonder why the USA hasn't long privatized the postal service.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: The Brain on September 05, 2011, 11:27:23 AM
I checked out PostNord, the Swedish equivalent. Note that this also includes Danish crap that reduce profits.

QuoteSummary of Results
April-June 2011
 Net sales totaled SEK 9,711m (10,231), down 2% excluding
currency changes
 Operating profit totaled SEK 211m (261), down 12% excluding
structural and currency changes
 Profit before tax totaled SEK 246m (254)
 Net profit totaled SEK 154m (185)
 Return on equity, rolling 12-month, was 8 (3) %1
 Equity-assets ratio was 46 (43) % at the end of the period
 Signing of agreements to acquire logistics companies Eek
Transport and Nils Hansson Logistics
 Cost savings program to reduce administrative costs by
approximately SEK 1 bn, and adjustments to group management
structure


1 Excluding capital gain of SEK 2,002m from the sale of Post
Danmark A/S's shares in the Belgian bpost (formerly De Post-La
Poste) in July 2009.

Edit: http://www.postnord.com/en/About-Us/Investor-Relations/
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 11:31:20 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 05, 2011, 11:18:43 AM
Creative destruction at work.

I wonder why the USA hasn't long privatized the postal service.

It kinda has.  It get subsidies to delivery mail to people like Katmai, but otherwise it's run like a corporation.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Zanza on September 05, 2011, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 11:31:20 AMIt kinda has.  It get subsidies to delivery mail to people like Katmai, but otherwise it's run like a corporation.
Its need for law change to fire someone and the CEO being called "Postmaster General" and its board being appointed by the US president and the fact that it is 100% state-owned doesn't make it sound very privatized. It seems to operate under public not private law too.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Mr.Penguin on September 05, 2011, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 05, 2011, 11:27:23 AM
I checked out PostNord, the Swedish equivalent. Note that this also includes Danish crap that reduce profits.

QuoteSummary of Results
April-June 2011
 Net sales totaled SEK 9,711m (10,231), down 2% excluding
currency changes
 Operating profit totaled SEK 211m (261), down 12% excluding
structural and currency changes
 Profit before tax totaled SEK 246m (254)
 Net profit totaled SEK 154m (185)
 Return on equity, rolling 12-month, was 8 (3) %1
 Equity-assets ratio was 46 (43) % at the end of the period
 Signing of agreements to acquire logistics companies Eek
Transport and Nils Hansson Logistics
 Cost savings program to reduce administrative costs by
approximately SEK 1 bn, and adjustments to group management
structure


1 Excluding capital gain of SEK 2,002m from the sale of Post
Danmark A/S's shares in the Belgian bpost (formerly De Post-La
Poste) in July 2009.

Edit: http://www.postnord.com/en/About-Us/Investor-Relations/

The poor Danish numbers is a result of the fact that the danish economy has been close going into resection for the last 2 years. Despite the economy is improving (are still under 1%), do our domestic spending keep falling and as a direct result hurting the profit of Post Danmark...

But unlike the US Postal Service have we problem reducing the number of employees. Last month did we on my post office alone reduce the number of full time positions by 4...   
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Ancient Demon on September 05, 2011, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<

Better that than they be kept in high paying but redundant jobs. They will cost the government less as unemployed.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Zanza on September 05, 2011, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 11:31:20 AMIt kinda has.  It get subsidies to delivery mail to people like Katmai, but otherwise it's run like a corporation.
Its need for law change to fire someone and the CEO being called "Postmaster General" and its board being appointed by the US president and the fact that it is 100% state-owned doesn't make it sound very privatized. It seems to operate under public not private law too.

We need someone to lead the postmen into battle, hence the title.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.

Which is why I have three.  Go play with your iWhatever, and bitch when your hard drive crashes.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: viper37 on September 05, 2011, 01:34:28 PM
the price of stamps could be increased.  At 0,44$, it's pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.
Which is why I have three.  Go play with your iWhatever, and bitch when your hard drive crashes.
Why would a harddrive crash?

Writing on a typewriter is barbaric.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 03:19:32 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Writing on a typewriter is barbaric.

Nonsense.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 03:39:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 03:19:32 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Writing on a typewriter is barbaric.

Nonsense.
Do you get whiteout all over the page when you mistype?  It's just terrible.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 05, 2011, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<


Welcome to Tea Party America!
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 04:46:03 PM
It only makes sense to cut down on postal service.  This is the 21st century, and 90% of mail is flyers for stores that you shouldn't shop at anyways.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<

Actually it is. We need to cull the garbage "jobs" that are unproductive to free up that labor to do something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: PDH on September 05, 2011, 05:47:05 PM
These people could be harvesting crops.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Ed Anger on September 05, 2011, 05:48:06 PM
Use them to round up the Timmays and Animetards.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 05:52:03 PM
The problem is that there are no worthwhile jobs anymore in America.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 05, 2011, 06:01:01 PM
Real writers use quills.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: PDH on September 05, 2011, 06:01:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 05, 2011, 05:48:06 PM
Use them to round up the Timmays and Animetards.

The Tea Party supports both :(
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<

Actually it is. We need to cull the garbage "jobs" that are unproductive to free up that labor to do something worthwhile.

Almost exactly the number of people Haliburton needs to work in North Dakota.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 06:12:50 PM
If I knew jack shit about drilling oil wells, I'd be up there starting a business right now.  :P
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 06:16:40 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<

Actually it is. We need to cull the garbage "jobs" that are unproductive to free up that labor to do something worthwhile.

I think we still need a post office.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 06:19:46 PM
Yes. It's even in the Constitution, so Ron Paul can't complain.  :)
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 06:19:46 PM
Yes. It's even in the Constitution, so Ron Paul can't complain.  :)

He complains about Income tax and that's in the Constitution.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 07:50:12 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 05, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
Another 120,000 people unemployed, that's just what the country needs right now. <_<
Actually it is. We need to cull the garbage "jobs" that are unproductive to free up that labor to do something worthwhile.
Almost exactly the number of people Haliburton needs to work in North Dakota.  :hmm:
A lot of postal workers aren't really capable of doing a lot of that kind of work.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2011, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 07:50:12 PM
A lot of postal workers aren't really capable of doing a lot of that kind of work.

I don't know how much upper body strength it takes to be a rig pig, but mail men are just about the fittest Americans there are.  With the possible exception of UPS drivers.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 05, 2011, 08:45:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2011, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 07:50:12 PM
A lot of postal workers aren't really capable of doing a lot of that kind of work.

I don't know how much upper body strength it takes to be a rig pig, but mail men are just about the fittest Americans there are.  With the possible exception of UPS drivers.
I don't think we're talking about just beat mailmen here.  Rig pig does take a fair bit of strength.  I've seen some guys who couldn't hack it, physically.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Josquius on September 05, 2011, 10:03:06 PM
Privatisation of the post is an awful idea which will only make things worse. Private companies will gobble up the bits that actually make a profit leaving the government to handle the dull day-to-day loss making stuff.

Quote
Actually it is. We need to cull the garbage "jobs" that are unproductive to free up that labor to do something worthwhile.

Like what?
It`s a big rising problem in the western world today that there just aren`t enough jobs to go around for the working class. (something I was going to go on about in a new thread but shock, horror, I actually have to work at work today...)
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 10:05:01 PM
With the amount of mail dropping over the years, they could be open MWF, and know one would ever notice.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 10:08:07 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 10:05:01 PM
With the amount of mail dropping over the years, they could be open MWF, and know one would ever notice.

I still want to get my shit from Amazon.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Habbaku on September 05, 2011, 10:22:49 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 05, 2011, 10:03:06 PM
Privatisation of the post is an awful idea which will only make things worse. Private companies will gobble up the bits that actually make a profit leaving the government to handle the dull day-to-day loss making stuff.

:lol:
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 05, 2011, 11:27:50 PM
It's actually not that funny.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Habbaku on September 06, 2011, 12:37:17 AM
You're right, it's simply absurd that he thinks that makes any sense.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: LaCroix on September 06, 2011, 01:52:13 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 06:12:50 PM
If I knew jack shit about drilling oil wells, I'd be up there starting a business right now.  :P

unless you moved to the Big City of minot, population 40,000, you'd probably find some hostility what with being a dirty furreiner and all :)
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Josquius on September 06, 2011, 02:48:51 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 06, 2011, 12:37:17 AM
You're right, it's simply absurd that he thinks that makes any sense.
:huh:
How doesn't it?
That's what happened in Britain. The government opened up the post to private companies, they instantly jumped at corporate deliveries and other nice profitable parts of the business leaving the unprofitable stuff which still had to be done to the Royal Mail. It did not end well.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2011, 02:57:02 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 06, 2011, 02:48:51 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 06, 2011, 12:37:17 AM
You're right, it's simply absurd that he thinks that makes any sense.
:huh:
How doesn't it?
That's what happened in Britain. The government opened up the post to private companies, they instantly jumped at corporate deliveries and other nice profitable parts of the business leaving the unprofitable stuff which still had to be done to the Royal Mail. It did not end well.

Works in Sweden.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Razgovory on September 06, 2011, 03:42:24 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 06, 2011, 12:37:17 AM
You're right, it's simply absurd that he thinks that makes any sense.

What makes you think the opposite?  I mean, besides blind obedience to ideology.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Zanza on September 06, 2011, 04:36:28 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 06, 2011, 02:57:02 AM
Quote:huh:
How doesn't it?
That's what happened in Britain. The government opened up the post to private companies, they instantly jumped at corporate deliveries and other nice profitable parts of the business leaving the unprofitable stuff which still had to be done to the Royal Mail. It did not end well.

Works in Sweden.
In Germany too. Deutsche Post has grown to become the biggest logistics company in the world since privatization and makes reasonable profits each year. The minority of the government gets a nice divident each year. Much better than the bottomless hole it was before privatization.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 06, 2011, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 06, 2011, 02:48:51 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 06, 2011, 12:37:17 AM
You're right, it's simply absurd that he thinks that makes any sense.
:huh:
How doesn't it?
That's what happened in Britain. The government opened up the post to private companies, they instantly jumped at corporate deliveries and other nice profitable parts of the business leaving the unprofitable stuff which still had to be done to the Royal Mail. It did not end well.

That's a failure of regulation. One needs to tie in the obligation to deliver post in the Hebrides to the right to make loadsamoney delivering letters within Britain's cities. Or get rid of the cross-subsidy, which I wouldn't favour myself.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Zanza on September 06, 2011, 04:47:29 AM
Are there any privatization success stories in Britain?
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 06, 2011, 04:51:51 AM
Not according to left-wingers  :D

An unqualified success, in my view, would be Rolls-Royce. At the other end of the spectrum the railways privatisation has resulted in a shambles.

I'd also say that the telecoms privatisation was a big success.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2011, 05:09:41 AM
Quote from: Zanza on September 06, 2011, 04:47:29 AM
Are there any privatization success stories in Britain?

Caning videos.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: The Brain on September 06, 2011, 07:48:03 AM
Keep calm and cane on.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: frunk on September 06, 2011, 08:18:17 AM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 03:39:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 03:19:32 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Writing on a typewriter is barbaric.

Nonsense.
Do you get whiteout all over the page when you mistype?  It's just terrible.

I just had this vision of CdM typing on an old Selectric typewriter, scanning in the printed sheet and posting it to Languish.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Barrister on September 06, 2011, 09:45:16 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.

Which is why I have three.  Go play with your iWhatever, and bitch when your hard drive crashes.

It's easy to have three typewriters when you don't actually write anything. -_-
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 06, 2011, 04:40:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 05, 2011, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 05, 2011, 06:19:46 PM
Yes. It's even in the Constitution, so Ron Paul can't complain.  :)

He complains about Income tax and that's in the Constitution.

Yeah but that was cheating.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: DGuller on September 06, 2011, 04:47:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:40:58 PM
Writing on a typewriter is barbaric.
:yes: I don't know how people managed to do it.  I tried it once when I was little, and I ran out of clean surface on the typewriter pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Ed Anger on September 06, 2011, 04:51:23 PM
You people would have died walking to school.

Pussies.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 06, 2011, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 06, 2011, 04:51:23 PM
You people would have died walking to school.

Pussies.

Uphill both ways? In the snow?
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Ed Anger on September 06, 2011, 05:16:01 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 06, 2011, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 06, 2011, 04:51:23 PM
You people would have died walking to school.

Pussies.

Uphill both ways? In the snow?

Damn right.
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: Neil on September 06, 2011, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 06, 2011, 09:45:16 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.
Which is why I have three.  Go play with your iWhatever, and bitch when your hard drive crashes.
It's easy to have three typewriters when you don't actually write anything. -_-
Oh snap!
Title: Re: Postal Service Facing Default
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 06, 2011, 09:29:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 06, 2011, 09:45:16 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 05, 2011, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM
Hey, I do my part, writing letters, buying stamps.  The rest of you faggots need to pull your share.
Why bother?  That's like typing with a typewriter.

Which is why I have three.  Go play with your iWhatever, and bitch when your hard drive crashes.

It's easy to have three typewriters when you don't actually write anything. -_-

:blurgh:  It's not for you.