Languish.org

So, this is a serious question.

Polish parliamentary elections are coming up in about 50 days. The ruling Civic Platform party is likely to stay in power. I voted for them during the last elections, to keep PiS out of power but I (along with a bunch of more liberal voters) am getting disenchanted with their social conservatism etc. So here are my pros and cons for the three parties I am considering:

Civic Platform (PO)
Current ruling party, moderate conservatives, similar to tories in 1990s when it comes to the views they hold. The leader is quite likeable.
Pros: Pro-West, pro-EU, pro-modernisation. They follow polls on social issues and have a liberal wing (they are the most big tent party in Poland) and have been grumbling recently about supporting stuff like gay marriage etc. They will also not fuck up the economy and have been doing pretty good job of keeping it good. Also, not going to fuck with my money/taxes.
Cons: Still have some nasty anti-gay, pro-catholic conservatives on their conservative wing.

Alliance of Democratic Left (SLD)
Former commies.
Pros: More pro-gay-rights than PO. If they get a good result, they may form a coalition with PO, which will allow them to influence the policies of PO on social issues and anti-church measures. The only party that is running an openly gay politician in Warsaw, so I have someone to vote for.
Cons: Their leader is a complete apparatchik douchebag. Their devotion to gay rights and whatnot seems to come up during elections but then goes down and is ignored by them. They still have some homophobic backbenchers (by comparison, PO kicked out a MP who made a homophobic comment recently, SLD didn't). They know jack shit about economy.

The Progress Movement (Ruch Poparcia)
Splinter group from PO, led by a charismatic eccentric millionaire who thought PO is too chummy with the catholic church.
Pros: Best when it comes to fitting my views - they are pro-gay, anti-church, pro-free market economy, pro low taxes.
Cons: Probably have no chance of passing the 5% national threshold so the vote will be lost most likely.

Given the information provided I think going with the PO is the wisest course of action.

Also, the leaders:

PO:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F__25_SwZ9JMU%2FTN_aWK5l4dI%2FAAAAAAAABXQ%2FMwOy2B_2a_w%2Fs1600%2Fdonald-tusk.jpg&hash=457ee3bc3ee7e27199aa2b0b247896ddea60c1d8)

SLD:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rzeszow4u.pl%2Fupload%2FAktualnosci%2Fgrzegorz-napieralski-byl-w-rzeszowie.jpg&hash=7d07b33c3857aae459776f2fff81acc0aa4fa582)

Ruch Poparcia:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tujastrzebie.pl%2Fpliki%2Fv2%2Fpolityka%2Fapalikot.jpg&hash=d1b958326b2bfe17df748a5a0f5b41c23edfbbea)

If you vote for the former commies I will come to Poland and kick you in the nuts.  :mad:

Voted SLD. :)

Quote from: Barrister on August 30, 2011, 02:51:49 PM
If you vote for the former commies I will come to Poland and kick you in the nuts.  :mad:

I was dead set on voting for them until a month or so ago (as I said they have a lot of new members, who are up my alley, ideologically). But recently the leader has been kicking out idealists and activists from good electable places (a gay rights activist and a pro-choice activist, both very well known in Poland, resigned from running as a result) and stuffing them with good ol' commies and his buddies, which is why I consider switching my vote.

Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 02:53:56 PM

Quote from: Barrister on August 30, 2011, 02:51:49 PM
If you vote for the former commies I will come to Poland and kick you in the nuts.  :mad:

I was dead set on voting for them until a month or so ago (as I said they have a lot of new members, who are up my alley, ideologically). But recently the leader has been kicking out idealists and activists from good electable places (a gay rights activist and a pro-choice activist, both very well known in Poland, resigned from running as a result) and stuffing them with good ol' commies and his buddies, which is why I consider switching my vote.

I don't care what your reasons are.  Just know what wil happen.

You can vote for any other party you want to.  Just not that one.  Or face the wrath of my size nine.

PO. 

Don't even consider voting for a party led by a cravat-wearer.  There's pro-gay and then there's just silly.

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 30, 2011, 02:59:52 PM
PO. 

Don't even consider voting for a party led by a cravat-wearer.  There's pro-gay and then there's just silly.

:lol:

This.

I get the feeling Mart will vote with his feet.

I voted for the guy who kinda looks like Tom Baker.

Quote from: Martinus on August 30, 2011, 02:41:06 PM
So, this is a serious question.

The Polish lawyer is asking non Poles who to vote for.  Serious question or another look at me thread?

Vote for Sting.

Quote from: The Brain on August 30, 2011, 03:06:48 PM
I get the feeling Mart will vote with his feet.

That's a little on the nose, even for you.

Guess whom I chose.

The one who best represents your views?  :P


...Or is this a strategic thing?

Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 06:26:16 PM
Guess whom I chose.

The one that looks like a lizard person.

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 30, 2011, 02:59:52 PM
PO. 

Don't even consider voting for a party led by a cravat-wearer.  There's pro-gay and then there's just silly.

The guy has to have a lot of confidence in his politics to go out in public wearing a pink scarf and his hair in a mess like that.  I respect that.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 30, 2011, 08:19:38 PM
The one who best represents your views?  :P


...Or is this a strategic thing?

No, that only applies to Republican Primaries.  Or would, if I wasn't lazy. :P

Quote from: Eddie TeachThe one that looks like a lizard person.

I think he looks all right. :lol:

And the guys you absolutely don`t want to win?
Depends quite how much you hate them and how awful they would be.
Though overall I`d say vote for the progress movement folks, they need a few votes.

Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 09:00:19 PM

Quote from: Eddie TeachThe one that looks like a lizard person.

I think he looks all right. :lol:

Look in his eyes, there's a reptile looking back. /brrr

The anti-Jewish party.


Oh wait, it's Poland, right. That's all of them.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 30, 2011, 09:20:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on August 30, 2011, 09:00:19 PM

Quote from: Eddie TeachThe one that looks like a lizard person.

I think he looks all right. :lol:

Look in his eyes, there's a reptile looking back. /brrr

We are talking about the SLD guy, right?

Yes.

PiS.  Let's face it, you want to be a martyr.  They can make it happen.

A little research finds I voted for the douchebag.  I wonder if I would find the same thing if I looked up the other two.

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 12:44:59 AM
A little research finds I voted for the douchebag.  I wonder if I would find the same thing if I looked up the other two.

Which one? Incidentally, they are politicians, aren't they?

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 12:54:39 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 12:44:59 AM
A little research finds I voted for the douchebag.  I wonder if I would find the same thing if I looked up the other two.

Which one? Incidentally, they are politicians, aren't they?

The last one.  With the silly scarf and the unruly hair.  He reminded me of Tom Baker.

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 12:59:40 AM

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 12:54:39 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 12:44:59 AM
A little research finds I voted for the douchebag.  I wonder if I would find the same thing if I looked up the other two.

Which one? Incidentally, they are politicians, aren't they?

The last one.  With the silly scarf and the unruly hair.  He reminded me of Tom Baker.

What makes you consider him a douchebag?

Waving a dildo at people.

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
Waving a dildo at people.

Oh that.  :lol:

He did some much more douchebaggy stuff. He is a politics' troll.

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
Waving a dildo at people.

So did Frank Drebin, and he was an American hero.

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 02:17:19 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
Waving a dildo at people.

Oh that.  :lol:

He did some much more douchebaggy stuff. He is a politics' troll.

Yeah, he's a troll and funny guy, but does it really matter who you are going to vote?

All Polish politicians are doing is barking at each other on TV over meaningless issues, and vote stuff sent from Brussels translated into Polish. They don't even read it.
Ah, they also pretend our state is in good shape while grabbing pension funds, cause the budget is on the road to Greece2. Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Being out of Eurozone might make it easier to default and thus get back on sound fiscal footing more easily than if finance ministers in Brussels were involved.

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 02:17:19 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2011, 01:02:19 AM
Waving a dildo at people.

Oh that.  :lol:

He did some much more douchebaggy stuff. He is a politics' troll.

If a man produced a dildo in one hand and pistol in the other, I'm going to conclude that I'm pretty much fucked.  And no, I won't vote for him after that.

Quote from: citizen k on August 31, 2011, 12:38:07 PM

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Being out of Eurozone might make it easier to default and thus get back on sound fiscal footing more easily than if finance ministers in Brussels were involved.

He is talking out of his ass. We are nowhere close to a default. Quite the contrary, really.

szmik is a Polish loser, willing to vote for the guy who did not even get enough signatures to get on the national ballot. :D

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 03:07:30 PM

Quote from: citizen k on August 31, 2011, 12:38:07 PM

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Being out of Eurozone might make it easier to default and thus get back on sound fiscal footing more easily than if finance ministers in Brussels were involved.

He is talking out of his ass. We are nowhere close to a default. Quite the contrary, really.

szmik is a Polish loser, willing to vote for the guy who did not even get enough signatures to get on the national ballot. :D

Wait a minute.  The deal is you are going to vote for who Languish tells you to vote for.  You gave up the right to think for yourself when you started the thread indicating you could not do so.

I think I should start these threads so you can see all the hilariously inane stuff Texas voters vote on:

'how should I vote in the community college bond election?'

Quote from: Martinus on August 31, 2011, 03:07:30 PM

Quote from: citizen k on August 31, 2011, 12:38:07 PM

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Being out of Eurozone might make it easier to default and thus get back on sound fiscal footing more easily than if finance ministers in Brussels were involved.

He is talking out of his ass. We are nowhere close to a default. Quite the contrary, really.

the more fun of you when the shit hits the fan :D

Quoteszmik is a Polish loser, willing to vote for the guy who did not even get enough signatures to get on the national ballot. :D

:lmfao: look who's talking out of his ass, you know me as well as Orange County it seems.

I stopped voting like 8 years ago. I am already disillusioned by all idiots pretending to be politicians or pretending they care about anything, but their seat and profits involved in bribes called nicely lobbing. We live in Euro banana republic, and that's not even funny anymore.

Quote from: citizen k on August 31, 2011, 12:38:07 PM

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
Or worse, cause we're out of Euro zone, and no one gives shit about zloty. Should be fun. :rolleyes:

Being out of Eurozone might make it easier to default and thus get back on sound fiscal footing more easily than if finance ministers in Brussels were involved.

It might be, but we would have to find a goverment willing to spend less which is mission impossible.

Quote from: szmik on August 31, 2011, 04:36:58 PMI stopped voting like 8 years ago. I am already disillusioned by all idiots pretending to be politicians or pretending they care about anything, but their seat and profits involved in bribes called nicely lobbing. We live in Euro banana republic, and that's not even funny anymore.

You seem bitter. What kind of work do you do? Do you run a business?

Quote from: crazy canuck on August 31, 2011, 03:34:16 PMWait a minute.  The deal is you are going to vote for who Languish tells you to vote for.  You gave up the right to think for yourself when you started the thread indicating you could not do so.

Are you seriously stalking me? You seem to follow me and post in every thread I make, saying how stupid it was of me to start it.

I suppose you would like that.  No, I simply stop by now and then to note the obvious.

Let's see.

The Civic Platform guy looks like a crooked used car salesman.

The SLD guy looks like a child molester.

The Ruch Poparcia guy looks like a hardcore alchoholic.

Hmm.  I'd say Poland is screwed no matter what.   :P

Seriously, your policital views are enough different than mine that I'm not sure I can give you any useful advice.  Well, you're not a Communist, so I think it would make no sense for you to vote for the ex-Commies, so I guess you should vote for one of the other two.

So, the party of the last guy has been surging in polls lately, as people are getting more anti-church, and the social-democrats are losing voters. So it seems like he is going to get into the parliament after all.

Thus, I decided to switch my vote to the hardcore alcoholic.

Vote for the hardcore alcoholic, even if he has no chance. The more votes PO loses to them, the more weight its own liberal wing will get come next elections.

Vote for whoever promises to annex White Russia, reintegrate Lithuania as a junior partner, and subdue the hosts of the Ukraine. Poland needs a warm water port.

Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 18, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

I think so...  I'm not sure if they ever used it though.  I get the impression that it was not a particularly urban society.

Looking into, there was the region of Jedisan, but like you said, I have no idea how well-equipped it was for any sort of shipping, and afaik they didn't hold it for an especially long time.

Aren't Baltic ports warm water? Most of the years anyway  :hmm:

Quote from: Sahib on September 18, 2011, 08:55:44 PM
Aren't Baltic ports warm water? Most of the years anyway  :hmm:

Don't know if they were in the 17th and 18th century.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 18, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

Dude, it's not like Southern Baltic freezes (except perhaps once in a century).  :huh:

Is Hamburg or Lubeck not a warm water port to you?

Quote from: Martinus on September 19, 2011, 01:30:05 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 18, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

Dude, it's not like Southern Baltic freezes (except perhaps once in a century).  :huh:

Is Hamburg or Lubeck not a warm water port to you?

It's not like I live there, man.  I thought the Baltic was regularly icy.  I mean, there was that time the Swedes walked from Skane to Copenhagen or something similar, and Russia was always trying to get Black Sea harbors despite it being full of Muslims.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 19, 2011, 01:32:10 AM

Quote from: Martinus on September 19, 2011, 01:30:05 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 18, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

Dude, it's not like Southern Baltic freezes (except perhaps once in a century).  :huh:

Is Hamburg or Lubeck not a warm water port to you?

It's not like I live there, man.  I thought the Baltic was regularly icy.  I mean, there was that time the Swedes walked from Skane to Copenhagen or something similar, and Russia was always trying to get Black Sea harbors despite it being full of Muslims.

Well Russia is a different story. Their Baltic ports were way up to the North than Gdansk or other Polish ports, and they equally were trying to get Lithuania/Courland (but without success, as Poland and later Prussia got there first).

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea#Sea_ice

Apparently since 1720, the Baltic sea has frozen nearly entirely only 20 times.

Besides, I think Russians were trying so hard to get a Black Sea port not just because their Northern ports froze over, but also because they needed it to protect their interests in that region, especially against the Ottomans.

That still sounds like a lot.  That's like seven times a century!  By contrast, I don't think any of our non-Great Lake ports have frozen since prehistory (I might be wrong?).

Quote from: Ideologue on September 19, 2011, 01:44:44 AM
That still sounds like a lot.  That's like seven times a century!  By contrast, I don't think any of our non-Great Lake ports have frozen since prehistory (I might be wrong?).

Well, that's not like it was frozen for the entire winter. So that's like British airports freezing from time to time for a few days.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 19, 2011, 01:32:10 AM

Quote from: Martinus on September 19, 2011, 01:30:05 AM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 18, 2011, 05:34:51 PM
Did P-L ever have a warm water port?  Serious question, I don't know.

Dude, it's not like Southern Baltic freezes (except perhaps once in a century).  :huh:

Is Hamburg or Lubeck not a warm water port to you?

It's not like I live there, man.  I thought the Baltic was regularly icy.  I mean, there was that time the Swedes walked from Skane to Copenhagen or something similar, and Russia was always trying to get Black Sea harbors despite it being full of Muslims.

Yeah, and how many times in the 17th century?  If the Baltic froze over completely 20 times since 1720 (I'm willing to bet most of those happened during the little Ice age period), then there must have been many times that it didn't freeze completely but still enough of to close ports or make navigation to dangerous to attempt or just freeze over the area around Denmark preventing anyone from entering or existing the Baltic.  There are reports of people traveling by sled from Poland to Sweden during the winter, so it can't be considered reliable during the winter.

Quote from: Martinus on September 19, 2011, 01:44:08 AM
Besides, I think Russians were trying so hard to get a Black Sea port not just because their Northern ports froze over, but also because they needed it to protect their interests in that region, especially against the Ottomans.

The Baltic ports have the disadvantage of being easily blockaded at the Skagerrak.  Black Sea ports had the same disadvantage, which is why the bear was always lusting for Constantinople.

Warm water port is shorthand for doesn't freeze and not easily corked.

So, Palikot's (the last name of the "hard core alcoholic") Movement has polled higher than the social-democrats today, for the first time in its history. It seems to be on a surge, and well poised to become the third biggest party in the parliament. Unless something game-changing happens, he gets my vote next Sunday.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,790034,00.html

QuoteNow, just days before Sunday's parliamentary election in Poland, Jaroslaw Kaczynski has grabbed the headlines with a whole new batch of conspiracy theories. And this time he's writing about Poland's neighbor Germany.

Among the wild claims in his new book, "The Poland of Our Dreams," Kaczynski suggests that Berlin would like to annex the areas in western Poland that used to belong to Germany until the end of World War II. "(German Chancellor Angela) Merkel belongs to a generation of German politicians that would like to reinstate Germany's imperial power," writes Kaczynski. "A strategic axis with Moscow is part of that." Poland can only be an obstacle in that respect, he continues, adding that Germany would need to "subdue our country, one way or another."

He also expressed his opposition to German investment in western Poland. "We could wake up to a smaller Poland one day," he warns.

'Not Pure Chance'

Most outlandishly, Kaczynski also insinuates in the book that the feared East German secret police, the Stasi, could have helped Merkel, who grew up in East Germany, gain power. "I don't think that the awarding of the chancellorship to Angela Merkel was pure chance," he writes -- conveniently ignoring the fact that Merkel became chancellor in 2005, some 15 years after the Stasi ceased to exist.

:lol:

Methinks the kraut doth protest too much. :yeahright:

Can Germany really make any serious promises that there will never be a fifth partition of Poland? Four was enough.  :rolleyes:

Oh great, that idiot's ramblings have gone international.  :rolleyes:

We have elections this Sunday, so he is doing all he can to get the stupid vote. In Poland, it is a significant demographic.