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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Slargos on July 24, 2011, 07:29:55 AM

Title: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 24, 2011, 07:29:55 AM
I stumbled across this complete non sequitur in the commentary field on an article about the Friday attack in Norway, and I got a bit curious.

Is there any veracity to these quotes?

QuoteMoed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba  Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there  is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an  Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba  Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it  does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).  Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an  old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a  Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a .  When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death  penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows. less (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/24/norway.okc.terror/index.html#)


Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 01:39:03 PM
Seems legit. Doesn't have to be cows though.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 24, 2011, 01:52:37 PM
Quote from: mongers on July 24, 2011, 01:48:10 PM

Has anything of any value ever been posted in the comments/HYS section of a website ? :unsure:

Alternatively if it's an absolutely correct translation of the Talmud, the kel surprised, yet another book that is 'The Book'/ 'The Word of God', has wacky content.

I'm not posting this with the intention of starting a debate. I'm merely curious about the allegations, and this is the only place where I know I can find Jews to ask about it.

I suppose I could simply do the research myself, but why do work if you can avoid it?  :P
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 01:54:25 PM
I read this:
QuotePenalty for Disobeying Rabbis

As "Penalty for Disobeying Rabbits".  :ph34r:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Tonitrus on July 24, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 01:39:03 PM
Seems legit. Doesn't have to be cows though.

It just says "prefer", unless you think gentiles have a different preference.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 24, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
you thing gentiles

Whoa. What do you mean "you thing"?
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 24, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
you thing gentiles

Whoa. What do you mean "you thing"?

It means he considers gentiles to be things. Pretty Jewish of him.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Jacob on July 24, 2011, 01:59:29 PM
I did a quick google check:

Sanhedrin 58b (which your post claims that if a non-Jew hits a Jew, the non-Jew must be killed) does have a bit that almost fits. The relevant commentary (i.e. a footnote interpretation by one authority, not the actual text) says:

R. Hanina said: If a heathen smites a Jew, he is worthy of death,21
21 - [By the Hand of God, V. Yad, Melakim. I, 6].

So, if a non-Jew hits a Jew, the non-Jew in question apparently deserves to be killed by God. So you better look out for lightning bolts from the sky etc.

You can read a couple of other ones here if you're interested: http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/short.html

The answer to your question is: there are passages that can be interpreted like that by people who want to interpret them thus (usually intended to cast Jews in a bad light). However, that is not how Jews interpret them.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Tonitrus on July 24, 2011, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 24, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
you thing gentiles

Whoa. What do you mean "you thing"?

It means he considers gentiles to be things. Pretty Jewish of him.

I hate typing on laptops.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 24, 2011, 02:04:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 24, 2011, 01:59:29 PM
The answer to your question is: there are passages that can be interpreted like that by people who want to interpret them thus (usually intended to cast Jews in a bad light). However, that is not how Jews interpret them.

Easier to get awarded damages if the fellow who hit you is still alive than to collect them from the estate I'd think.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.

You have really got to work on your history.  Just because the Bronze age ended in 1795 for Poland doesn't mean it was that way for the rest of the world.  Jews had been using Iron for over a millennia when they first started the Talmud.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 02:10:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
a millennia

:console:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: dps on July 24, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 01:54:25 PM
I read this:
QuotePenalty for Disobeying Rabbis

As "Penalty for Disobeying Rabbits".  :ph34r:

I read it as "Penalty for Disrobing Rabbis".
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Brain on July 24, 2011, 02:23:25 PM
I read it as "katmai is a faggot".
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: DGuller on July 24, 2011, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.

You have really got to work on your history.  Just because the Bronze age ended in 1795 for Poland doesn't mean it was that way for the rest of the world.  Jews had been using Iron for over a millennia when they first started the Talmud.
:face:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.

You have really got to work on your history.  Just because the Bronze age ended in 1795 for Poland doesn't mean it was that way for the rest of the world.  Jews had been using Iron for over a millennia when they first started the Talmud.

I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: citizen k on July 24, 2011, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PMI'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

Time for the Martinus Personal Metaphor and Analogy Dictionary.

Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 05:48:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.

You have really got to work on your history.  Just because the Bronze age ended in 1795 for Poland doesn't mean it was that way for the rest of the world.  Jews had been using Iron for over a millennia when they first started the Talmud.

I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

Is this like where you say you are a lawyer, but you really mean that you work as a  janitor at a law firm?
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: grumbler on July 24, 2011, 06:40:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 05:48:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 24, 2011, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Bronze age religious books say stupid shit. Film at 11.

You have really got to work on your history.  Just because the Bronze age ended in 1795 for Poland doesn't mean it was that way for the rest of the world.  Jews had been using Iron for over a millennia when they first started the Talmud.

I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

Is this like where you say you are a lawyer, but you really mean that you work as a  janitor at a law firm?
:face:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 08:46:50 AM
The simple answer is "no".

There are various lists of stuff cherry-picked from the Talmud purporting to show Jewish horrors, found on anti-Semitic websites. They are generally taken out of context, deliberate mistranslations, or simply invented.

Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2011, 08:53:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

...Yeah we should all assume Bronze Age means something other than Bronze Age...
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Valmy on July 25, 2011, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 08:46:50 AM
The simple answer is "no".

There are various lists of stuff cherry-picked from the Talmud purporting to show Jewish horrors, found on anti-Semitic websites. They are generally taken out of context, deliberate mistranslations, or simply invented.

The Talmud has lots of case studies of how to apply their religious laws in really extreme circumstances and that is usually what the Anti-semites jump on.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: DGuller on July 25, 2011, 09:18:04 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.
:face:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:21:28 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.

Kike plz.  :rolleyes:

It's honest curiosity.

Is it direct translation, mistranslation, misinterpretation or outright lies?
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: garbon on July 25, 2011, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.

I was hoping that no one would reply to this thread.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 25, 2011, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.

I was hoping that no one would reply to this thread.

Would you rather I just draw my own conclusions?
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: garbon on July 25, 2011, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
Would you rather I just draw my own conclusions?

I was hoping you'd be capable of using google if you were lacking in sense.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 25, 2011, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
Would you rather I just draw my own conclusions?

I was hoping you'd be capable of using google if you were lacking in sense.

Google just returns a lot of nazi sites. Which I guess is as good an indication as any.  :hmm:

Figure the horse is a good place to start.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
Is this the start of Slargos's career as budding Talmudic scholar?

Will we see him in Yeshiva class in the near future?

Stay tuned!  :hmm:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
Is this the start of Slargos's career as budding Talmudic scholar?

Will we see him in Yeshiva class in the near future?

Stay tuned!  :hmm:

Know thine enemy.  :hmm:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 10:07:49 AM
Quote from: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
Is this the start of Slargos's career as budding Talmudic scholar?

Will we see him in Yeshiva class in the near future?

Stay tuned!  :hmm:

Know thine enemy.  :hmm:

Sure, sure. Justify your fatal attraction that way.

When you immigrate to Mea Sherim to have six little Orthodox children with a heeby beauty and spend your days studying Torah, you will no doubt claim to be in "deep cover".  ;)
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 10:09:01 AM
No doubt. No doubt.  :sleep:

And 9 years from now...   :menace:

[Too soon?  :Embarrass: ]
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: grumbler on July 25, 2011, 10:10:25 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 25, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
Is this the start of Slargos's career as budding Talmudic scholar?

Will we see him in Yeshiva class in the near future?
No, because Yeshivot require you to think.  As the Slargbilly has shown, he just wants to be a passive consumer of information.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 10:12:03 AM
However shall I recover from this slight.  :cry:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Jacob on July 25, 2011, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:47:59 AMWould you rather I just draw my own conclusions?

I don't think it matters much. You always seem to draw your conclusions independently of any reason, argument or fact.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: dps on July 25, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 25, 2011, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
Would you rather I just draw my own conclusions?

I was hoping you'd be capable of using google if you were lacking in sense.

"If" ???
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

I should know better than to respond further but this really bugs me.  The Abrahamic religions arose quite deep in the Iron Age, and that is fact of relevance to understanding not just the history of religion, but ancient history generally.  Talking about the Bronze Age in this context is like talking about Napoleon's impact on the Italian Rennaissance.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Slargos on July 25, 2011, 12:01:24 PM
So you mean that it's also not true that if a Jew touches Iron, he melts away and has to sleep in a coffin until the next full moon in order to rebuild his corporeal body?
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Martinus on July 25, 2011, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

I should know better than to respond further but this really bugs me.  The Abrahamic religions arose quite deep in the Iron Age, and that is fact of relevance to understanding not just the history of religion, but ancient history generally.  Talking about the Bronze Age in this context is like talking about Napoleon's impact on the Italian Rennaissance.

Ok. Fine. Replace "Bronze Age" with "Iron Age". Ok?

My notions of Bronze Age and Iron Age may have been influenced by Sid Meier's Civilization.  :blush:
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Razgovory on July 25, 2011, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 08:55:01 AM
The troll gets his meal, and all we get are archaeology lessons from Martinus.

Bad deal for us.

I got a few zings in, so I'm happy.  What I like about Marty is that he will make the same mistake several times even after being corrected.  I don't have to think up new jokes every time he says something dumb.
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Rasputin on July 25, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 25, 2011, 11:59:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 24, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
I'm using "bronze age" to mean something else than it really means. Duh.  :rolleyes:

I should know better than to respond further but this really bugs me.  The Abrahamic religions arose quite deep in the Iron Age, and that is fact of relevance to understanding not just the history of religion, but ancient history generally.  Talking about the Bronze Age in this context is like talking about Napoleon's impact on the Italian Rennaissance.

in addition to correcting this thread here, there's a thread in the back alley where marty wants to compare penis size with you
(metaphorically speaking)...
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: Ed Anger on July 25, 2011, 04:23:56 PM
ick
Title: Re: More questions about Talmud
Post by: garbon on July 25, 2011, 05:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on July 25, 2011, 04:18:09 PM
in addition to correcting this thread here, there's a thread in the back alley where marty wants to compare penis size with you
(metaphorically speaking)...

Would a penis by any other name still taste as sweet? :unsure: