http://news.yahoo.com/younger-brother-afghan-president-killed-074921005.html
QuoteAfghan president's half brother killed in south
By MIRWAIS KHAN, Associated Press – 6 hours ago
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) — President Hamid Karzai's half brother, the most powerful man in southern Afghanistan and a lightning rod for criticism of corruption in the government, was assassinated Tuesday by a close associate. His death leaves a dangerous power vacuum in the south just as the government has begun peace talks with insurgents ahead of a U.S. withdrawal.
Ahmed Wali Karzai, the head of the Kandahar provincial council, was shot to death while receiving guests at his home in Kandahar, the capital of the province that was the birthplace of the Taliban movement and was the site of a recent U.S.-led offensive.
Tooryalai Wesa, the provincial governor of Kandahar, identified the assassin as Sardar Mohammad and said he was a close, "trustworthy" person who had gone to Wali Karzai's house to get him to sign some papers.
As Wali Karzai was signing the papers, the assassin "took out a pistol and shot him with two bullets — one in the forehead and one in the chest," Wesa said. "Another patriot to the Afghan nation was martyred by the enemies of Afghanistan."
The killing coincided with a visit to the capital, Kabul, by French President Nicolas Sarzoky.
"This morning my younger brother Ahmed Wali Karzai was murdered in his home," the Afghan president said during a joint news conference with Sarkozy. "Such is the life of Afghanistan's people. In the houses of the people of Afghanistan, each of us is suffering and our hope is, God willing, to remove this suffering from the people of Afghanistan and implement peace and stability."
The Taliban claimed responsibility for the assassination at the heavily guarded house, hidden behind 8-foot (2.5 meter) blast walls. The Interior Ministry said an investigation was under way.
Wali Karzai, who was in his 50s and had survived several previous assassination attempts, was seen by many as a political liability for the Karzai government after a series of allegations, including that he was on the CIA payroll and involved in drug trafficking. He denied the charges. The president repeatedly challenged his accusers to show him evidence of his sibling's wrongdoing, but said nobody ever could.
Wali Karzai remained a key power broker in the south, helping shore up his family's interests in the Taliban's southern heartland, which has been the site of numerous offensives by U.S., coalition and Afghan troops to root out insurgents. Militants have retaliated by intimidating and killing local government officials or others against the Taliban.
The United Nations said in a quarterly report issued June 23 that more than half of all assassinations across Afghanistan since March had been in Kandahar. In April, the Kandahar police chief Khan Mohammad Mujahid was killed by a suicide bomber wearing a police uniform who blew himself up beside the official's car.
According to a government official with knowledge of the investigation, Wali Karzai was holding a meeting in his home with five provincial council members and a number of local village elders, including the assassin. The official said Mohammad was a close friend and had represented Wali Karzai many times in their shared home village of Karz, the president's hometown. Mohammad was the village elder of Karz and was his emissary and travel companion throughout Kandahar, the official said.
At about 11:30 a.m. Mohammad asked Wali Karzai to speak with him privately and to sign some papers in an adjoining room, the official said. Three shots rang out, according to the official. Wali Karzai's bodyguards ran into the room and found him on the floor with bullet wounds to his head, hand and leg. The bodyguards shot and killed the assassin.
The government official said that it remains unclear whether the killing was the result of an internal feud or a Taliban plot.
Although tribal rivalries are common in Kandahar, bloodletting within tribes is fairly uncommon, he said.
Agha Lalai, deputy of the provincial council, said he was one of the first to respond to the sounds of shots.
Lalai said that he and several other men picked up Wali Karzai and attempted to carry him out of the house, but he died before they left the grounds.
In Kabul, the political elite reacted to the killing with shock and concern about the future of the country's southern region and beyond. Though Wali Karzai held an elected office in the provincial council, people who knew him said he seemed to float above the various political and tribal spheres dominating the south. Throngs of people came to Karzai's house on a daily basis seeking remedies for everything from family disputes, to tribal battles, to political intrigues.
Members of the international community had urged the president to remove his brother from his powerful provincial position, saying that it was essential if he was to prove to the Afghan people that he was committed to good governance. But despite his alleged forays into narco-trafficking, smuggling, and land theft, many Western officials also relied on him because of his unparalleled reach and understanding of the various players in the area.
Noorolhaq Olomi, a former parliament member from Kandahar, said Wali Karzai was the most powerful man in southern Afghanistan — "more of a governor than the governor" and "everybody's leader in the south, not just Kandahar."
"I cannot say whether this was political or personal or some other matter," Olomi said. "But whoever did it, it shows the weakness of this government. The president needs to change things. He needs to change himself and build a government that is real. Right now, there is no government. It's all a fraud."
Condolences flooded into the president palace throughout the day.
Gen. David Petraeus, the outgoing commander of NATO and U.S. forces in Afghanistan, condemned the murder and said the coalition would support efforts to prosecute anyone who played a role in the killing. "President Karzai is working to create a stronger, more secure Afghanistan, and for such a tragic event to happen to someone within his own family is unfathomable," Petraeus said in a statement.
Both Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani called the president to express their sadness at his brother's death.
Abdullah Abdullah, the top opposition leader in Afghanistan who ran against Karzai in the latest presidential election, called it "an act against national personality and the ones who are at the service of the Afghan people."
Mohammad Yusuf Pashtun, a senior adviser to the president for construction, water, energy and mines, said the death will have a big impact on security in southern Afghanistan.
"My first impression is that in spite of all the negative propaganda against him he managed to be a source of stability in that area," he said. "When it comes to bringing people together in the south, this creates a vacuum. I don't know what will happen now, but something must be done by the local leadership."
Rangina Hamidi, a resident of Kandahar and daughter of the city's mayor, said Wali Karzai is survived by five children — two sons and three daughters. She says his youngest son was born about a month ago.
Wali Karzai has been the reported target of multiple assassination attempts.
In May 2009, a bodyguard was killed when his motorcade was ambushed by insurgents but Wali Karzai was not harmed.
That attack came less than two months after four Taliban suicide bombers stormed Kandahar's provincial council office, killing 13 people in an assault that Wali Karzai said was aimed at him, although he had left the building a few minutes beforehand.
Wali Karzai also survived a November 2008 suicide attack on the provincial council offices that killed six other people.
A very bad guy gets capped by even worse guys.
Bit of a bait and switch with that title.
Littlefinger. :yawn:
:lol: Nice job, DG.
Quote from: The Brain on July 12, 2011, 08:38:13 AM
Littlefinger. :yawn:
no no no
Abdul Rashid Dostum won that pistol from Ahmed Wali Massoud at the Buzkashi tournament at Herat last spring.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 12, 2011, 08:36:34 AM
Bit of a bait and switch with that title.
Who, me? :whistle:
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
And what do they mean by "half brother"?
There is no such a thing in middle eastern culture.
If they are brothers on their father's side, from diferent mothers, then they are full brothers and that's the end of it.
If they are brothers on their mother's side from diferent husbands, as in the mother was a widow and remarried, then they are "related", and chances are they hate each other. It all depends on the relationship between the husbands when both were alive.
Bottom line, half brother in the middle east means same mother diferent father, so I hope reporters got it right.
The question of course, is how much middle eastern Afghanistan is, since technically speaking they are in central Asia.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
It's not like the Cons media doesn't do it either.
But I agree with you, it's fucking annoying.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
And what do they mean by "half brother"?
There is no such a thing in middle eastern culture.
If they are brothers on their father's side, from diferent mothers, then they are full brothers and that's the end of it.
If they are brothers on their mother's side from diferent husbands, as in the mother was a widow and remarried, then they are "related", and chances are they hate each other. It all depends on the relationship between the husbands when both were alive.
Bottom line, half brother in the middle east means same mother diferent father, so I hope reporters got it right.
The question of course, is how much middle eastern Afghanistan is, since technically speaking they are in central Asia.
Why should we care what their culture thinks of their relation? To us they are half brothers.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
That's not particularly liberal, it's real politics. And Hitler wasn't an ally propped up by the West. One could say that the removal of Hitler did create a vacuum in central Europe( which the Soviet Union filled), but you are more likely to find conservatives making that claim (not so much anymore, only Pat Buchanan and a few other assorted Paleocons hold to that anymore).
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Too late. I am surprised that you would take this position, but you are wayyyy too late in advocating it. :P
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
And what do they mean by "half brother"?
There is no such a thing in middle eastern culture.
They mean that they share one parent, but not both. There is such a thing in the culture for whom this newspaper was prepared, and so they used the civilized term for it. I doubt one reader in twenty cares that Middle Easterners cannot grasp the concept.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 12, 2011, 10:22:25 AM
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
And what do they mean by "half brother"?
There is no such a thing in middle eastern culture.
If they are brothers on their father's side, from diferent mothers, then they are full brothers and that's the end of it.
If they are brothers on their mother's side from diferent husbands, as in the mother was a widow and remarried, then they are "related", and chances are they hate each other. It all depends on the relationship between the husbands when both were alive.
Bottom line, half brother in the middle east means same mother diferent father, so I hope reporters got it right.
The question of course, is how much middle eastern Afghanistan is, since technically speaking they are in central Asia.
Why should we care what their culture thinks of their relation? To us they are half brothers.
That would be a miscalculation on your part.
Half brother in western culture means that you don't care about him as much as for a full brother.
You would think a half-brother is negotiable, he could be handed over to the wolves for the right price, when a full brother is not.
To Karzai this dude was a full brother.
And his behavior towards him, protecting him even though he was clearly a liability, shows you Karzai saw him as a full brother.
No understanding the local culture will lead you to miscalculations and fallacies.
Well I don't care. The stabilization of Afghanistan is not a concern of mine.
I would love to keep the war going in Afghanistan for another decade.
That would allow us to rotate everybody through afghanistan at least once, so when a real war comes up we have the edge of a veteran army.
But for some reason american wars are far more expensive than anybody elses, and I fear we cannot afford the bill with the economy as it is.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 11:44:35 AM
That would be a miscalculation on your part.
Half brother in western culture means that you don't care about him as much as for a full brother.
But in Western culture, this isn't true. You Middle eastern types consistently misunderstand western culture. A half-brother that was raised with the family is a closer relative than a brother raised away from the family. Unlike you Middle Eastern type, what counts in the West isn't blood, but rather familiarity. Further, in the West we have strong bonds that extend past the family, which is why, for instance, when you Middle Eastern types suicided into the World trade center, many westerners took that very personally.
Quote from: grumbler on July 12, 2011, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 11:44:35 AM
That would be a miscalculation on your part.
Half brother in western culture means that you don't care about him as much as for a full brother.
But in Western culture, this isn't true. You Middle eastern types consistently misunderstand western culture. A half-brother that was raised with the family is a closer relative than a brother raised away from the family. Unlike you Middle Eastern type, what counts in the West isn't blood, but rather familiarity. Further, in the West we have strong bonds that extend past the family, which is why, for instance, when you Middle Eastern types suicided into the World trade center, many westerners took that very personally.
Oh I understand the last part, national identity as oppoussed to tribal identity.
I don't think is that real to everybody, but if you think is real is real, at least to you.
Europeans claim to have some sort of universal humankind identity.
I call it bullshit.
Well, not all Euros claim that, but at least the intellectual liberal class that dominates most of Euro.
In general, it seeems to me that western culture destroyed tribal identity for the benefit of national identity, and now is in the process, or have been for a while in the process, of destroying family identity. Western family units have been reduced to 3 people: husband, wife, and one single child.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
The story probably mentions that the killing will leave behind a dangerous power vacuum, not because the "media" is "liberal", but because the killing is likely to leave a dangerous power vacuum behind. The writer probably figured that might of interest to readers.
Moreover, one doesn't need to invoke Internet Common Law to see the fallacy in comparing Hitler to A.W. Karzai. What exactly is the basis for saying Karzai was a "bad guy"? Because he was corrupt? Afghanistan is a society bereft of the rule of law; everyone in a position of power and authority is corrupt by western standards. Because he was rumored to be complicit in the drug trade in some vague way? Drugs are the primary economic commodity and export of the country.
What can be said with some confidence about A.W. Karzai is that he did a decent job of keeping a lid on things in Kandahar, by cutting deals with various tribal leaders in the regions (i.e. "corruption"). Maybe he could have done the job better, or with less alienation of dissident tribes, or with a little less graft. Perhaps we shall now find out but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out whoever the government now relies on to keep the players in region within the lines is turns out to be less effective.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 12, 2011, 08:36:34 AM
Bit of a bait and switch with that title.
I'm sure you'll do a thread anyways, beacuse it is 'important'.
One of these days the Karzai Karzai is going to get whacked, and no one will believe me when I inform Languish of it. :(
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Depends. If you killed Hitler after the Night of the Long Knives but prior to or early in the war, then there's no power vacuum at all. Goering takes over, and with his enormous personal popularity he's probably pretty much impossible to challenge by any of the other major Nazis. Prior to the Night of the Long Knives, but after his coming to power, you end up with a likely civil war between Goering and Roehm. Late in the war, you end up in an awkward situation because while Goering is the legal successor and still rather popular with the people in general, his prestige has been damaged by Luftwaffe failures and having been on the outs with Hitler for some time. On the other hand, Himmler and Bormann have been building up their personal power. And then there's the army.
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
That is precisely what happened. The SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war.
Yeah, I remember reading that too.
Quote from: Viking on July 12, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 10:11:42 AM
Really funny how every time a bad guy get killed the media don't forget to mention the "dangerous power vacuum" they leave behind.
Hey, don't kill Hitler, it would leave a dangerous power vacuum and the situation could get worse.
Im getting sick of the liberal media.
That is precisely what happened. The SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war.
In related news the National Archives train assassins. Who woulda known? :hmm:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/lesson17.htm
Quote from: Siege on July 12, 2011, 12:06:19 PM
Western family units have been reduced to 3 people: husband, wife, and one single child.
It may look like that to non-Westerners, but it isn't so.
Quote from: Viking on July 12, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
That is precisely what happened. The SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war.
Thank god the SOE made that decision! Of course, they could have reached the opposite conclusion, and it would have changed nothing.
Of course, a competent German leader wouldn't have wasted all the resources Hitler did on the Final Solution, so maybe the SOE people should feel like shit for deciding to not even attempt to whack Hitler.
Quote from: The Brain on July 13, 2011, 01:58:28 AM
In related news the National Archives train assassins. Who woulda known? :hmm:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/lesson17.htm
Obviously, fake documents, because the SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war. Operation Foxley must be a fraud, then.
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2011, 06:42:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on July 12, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
That is precisely what happened. The SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war.
Thank god the SOE made that decision! Of course, they could have reached the opposite conclusion, and it would have changed nothing.
Of course, a competent German leader wouldn't have wasted all the resources Hitler did on the Final Solution, so maybe the SOE people should feel like shit for deciding to not even attempt to whack Hitler.
Good point.
Who are the SOE?
Quote from: Siege on July 14, 2011, 09:10:16 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 13, 2011, 06:42:03 AM
Quote from: Viking on July 12, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
That is precisely what happened. The SOE comissioned a report on the assassination of Hitler and determined that if they killed him someone competent might take command, so they decided to leave him alive until the end of the war.
Thank god the SOE made that decision! Of course, they could have reached the opposite conclusion, and it would have changed nothing.
Of course, a competent German leader wouldn't have wasted all the resources Hitler did on the Final Solution, so maybe the SOE people should feel like shit for deciding to not even attempt to whack Hitler.
Good point.
Who are the SOE?
British CIA in WWII. Special Operations Executive
They were probably wary about the possibility of creating another Stab-in-the-back legend as well. Not to mention Operation Anthropoid had some unpleasant consequences.