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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 10:56:08 PM

Title: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 10:56:08 PM
I rest my case  :sleep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N8c1t1QTDI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI6sApoAskc
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:03:53 PM
Er, what am I looking at?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:03:53 PM
Er, what am I looking at?
Two spectacularly racist #1 hit music videos.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:03:53 PM
Er, what am I looking at?
Two spectacularly racist #1 hit music videos.

I can't speak Korean.  I have no idea what they are saying.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2011, 11:16:43 PM
Is it still 1985 in Korea?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:20:01 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 18, 2011, 11:16:43 PM
Is it still 1985 in Korea?

That was my guess as well.  The first one looked like extras from an old Michael Jackson Video.  The second one had some airplane crash and then dancing girls.  The music wasn't that good so never finished either of them.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:25:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:03:53 PM
Er, what am I looking at?
Two spectacularly racist #1 hit music videos.

I can't speak Korean.  I have no idea what they are saying.
I don't speak Korean either, do you have eyes in your head?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:26:14 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 18, 2011, 11:16:43 PM
Is it still 1985 in Korea?
Politically 1989, socially 1959, technologically 2014.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 18, 2011, 11:30:45 PM
So because some black dude enunciates slowly "Where is Nam-San" Korea is undeniably racist and you rest your case?  :hmm:  :wacko:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
It's the entirety of the presentation, though I suppose my experience in Korea allows me to read between the lines better than those who haven't been there.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: chipwich on May 18, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
It's the entirety of the presentation, though I suppose my experience in Korea allows me to read between the lines better than those who haven't been there.

Then maybe you shouldn't have rested your case.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:57:39 PM
Quote from: chipwich on May 18, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
It's the entirety of the presentation, though I suppose my experience in Korea allows me to read between the lines better than those who haven't been there.

Then maybe you shouldn't have rested your case.
I don't see how anyone could watch that first video and say it's not racist.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2011, 12:12:24 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 18, 2011, 11:16:43 PM
Is it still 1985 in Korea?

No shit! :lol:

Looking at the first video I have to agree that it's racist ... because it makes Koreans look like retarded douchebags.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 12:14:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 19, 2011, 12:12:24 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 18, 2011, 11:16:43 PM
Is it still 1985 in Korea?

No shit! :lol:

Looking at the first video I have to agree that it's racist ... because it makes Koreans look like retarded douchebags.
That's not what normal Korean videos look like, more like they're interpretation of African-American culture. Itaewon is Seoul's foreign district, and it's where American soldiers go party.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2011, 12:23:29 AM
I dunno, if that video is racist, then Swedish Rednex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgyg_5FF_0) is, too, for mocking the rural South.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
How long did you have to stay in Korea before you twigged on the racism thing?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Zoupa on May 19, 2011, 01:00:52 AM
I can barely get the racist vibe in the 1st vid. What's racist in the second one? I dont get it.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2011, 01:04:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 19, 2011, 12:23:29 AM
I dunno, if that video is racist, then Swedish Rednex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgyg_5FF_0) is, too, for mocking the rural South.

Er, except that Rednex capture the soul of America.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Tonitrus on May 19, 2011, 01:14:04 AM
Weird, yes.  Racist, nah.

Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
How long did you have to stay in Korea before you twigged on the racism thing?
If you're out and about you catch on pretty quick given people's reactions. It's significantly better for whites than blacks, though it's still there.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 01:59:28 AM
First looks like a parody. Is it serious?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 02:07:06 AM
Naw. That's not racist.

Let me clue you back in.

Racist:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fviz.cwrl.utexas.edu%2Ffiles%2Fwatertoon.jpg&hash=750f8b15ed2317be9a121c96ca9d1a51a6a91377)


Not racist:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tutorials.com%2Ftutorial_images%2F08%2F0838%2F08381bg.gif&hash=dbb14fc431f779b0e9c077b163d9617b86425f49)
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 02:09:19 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 01:59:28 AM
First looks like a parody. Is it serious?
I and people I know have been asked questions in complete serious far more ridiculous than that video. They were probably seriously trying to celebrate the diversity of Itaewon, which makes it worse in my opinion. If this what your friends think of you, what about your enemies? 
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
Slargos, even that one is questionable. I mean there's nothing wrong with loving watermelon. ;)
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Syt on May 19, 2011, 02:12:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
How long did you have to stay in Korea before you twigged on the racism thing?
If you're out and about you catch on pretty quick given people's reactions. It's significantly better for whites than blacks, though it's still there.

You should use your exotic-ness and mystique to score Korean poon.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 02:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 19, 2011, 02:12:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
How long did you have to stay in Korea before you twigged on the racism thing?
If you're out and about you catch on pretty quick given people's reactions. It's significantly better for whites than blacks, though it's still there.

You should use your exotic-ness and mystique to score Korean poon.
Exoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 02:18:52 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 02:09:19 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 01:59:28 AM
First looks like a parody. Is it serious?
I and people I know have been asked questions in complete serious far more ridiculous than that video. They were probably seriously trying to celebrate the diversity of Itaewon, which makes it worse in my opinion. If this what your friends think of you, what about your enemies?

You AmeriKKKans have simply become inured with PC and so ironically you see racism everywhere.

Maybe they don't make fun of him because he's black, but because he's an American soldier.

DID YOU CONSIDER THAT?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 02:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 19, 2011, 02:12:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
How long did you have to stay in Korea before you twigged on the racism thing?
If you're out and about you catch on pretty quick given people's reactions. It's significantly better for whites than blacks, though it's still there.

You should use your exotic-ness and mystique to score Korean poon.
Exoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.

Failing your exoticness, you can always just use your wallet you prude fuck.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Josquius on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.

Thanks for the tip.  I'll cross the RoK off my sex tourism list.  As if I didn't have enough reasons to hate Korea.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: dps on May 19, 2011, 06:56:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 18, 2011, 11:20:01 PM
The second one had some airplane crash

Was that an F3F?

Anyway, I didn't see anything racist about the 1st video.  It just looked like a parody of typical mid 1980 music videos to me.  Or rather, it looked like a music video made in the mid 1980s.  Calling it a parody would imply that it was intentionally funny.

The second one obviously uses some faux American Indian visuals, but I wouldn't consider that racist in and of itself if they aren't being used to mock or ridicule Indians, which I can't tell if they are.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Camerus on May 19, 2011, 07:13:24 AM
The first video had what could be interpreted as some possible minor racist undertones, but it didn't strike me as being a good example of 'zomg, racism'!  It was, however, immensely retarded, so I didn't bother to watch the second one.

Tim, I am sure there must be Korean girls wiling to date foreigners.  China has many conservative girls too, but there are (a) a number of girls who aren't that conservative after all and (b) whores in every nook and cranny.  You aren't trying hard enough.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: dps on May 19, 2011, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 19, 2011, 07:13:24 AM
The first video had what could be interpreted as some possible minor racist undertones, but it didn't strike me as being a good example of 'zomg, racism'!  It was, however, immensely retarded, so I didn't bother to watch the second one.

Tim, I am sure there must be Korean girls wiling to date foreigners.  China has many conservative girls too, but there are (a) a number of girls who aren't that conservative after all and (b) whores in every nook and cranny.  You aren't trying hard enough.


Are we really surprised that Timmay has trouble getting a date, not matter what country he's in?  In Korea, at least he can attributue it to racism on the part of the locals.  In the U.S., I guess he'd argue it's irrational prejudice against cancer survivors.

OTOH, he doesn't strike me as the type that would frequent prostitutes, so your observation about whores really doesn't matter to him.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2011, 07:53:31 AM
I dunno, if suitors were chosen by parents in America Tim would probably be pretty successful.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Viking on May 19, 2011, 07:56:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 02:17:42 AMExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.

Japan is precisely the other way round, Japanese men are such mysogynistic dicks that japanese women love the nice friendly western men (as long as their parents never find out).
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Neil on May 19, 2011, 07:58:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 18, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
It's the entirety of the presentation, though I suppose my experience in Korea allows me to read between the lines better than those who haven't been there.
No, I think it's your willingness to panic and cry 'racism!', based on your tendency to get a bit overexcited.

Since the Koreans were slaves almost as long as the blacks in the US were, I think you'll find that they're a little less prone to self-censorship in order to avoid having Jesse Jackson coming after them.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 08:05:37 AM
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 19, 2011, 07:13:24 AM
The first video had what could be interpreted as some possible minor racist undertones, but it didn't strike me as being a good example of 'zomg, racism'!  It was, however, immensely retarded, so I didn't bother to watch the second one.

Tim, I am sure there must be Korean girls wiling to date foreigners.  China has many conservative girls too, but there are (a) a number of girls who aren't that conservative after all and (b) whores in every nook and cranny.  You aren't trying hard enough.


Are we really surprised that Timmay has trouble getting a date, not matter what country he's in?  In Korea, at least he can attributue it to racism on the part of the locals.  In the U.S., I guess he'd argue it's irrational prejudice against cancer survivors.

I've had dates with western girls here. :contract:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 19, 2011, 07:53:31 AM
I dunno, if suitors were chosen by parents in America Tim would probably be pretty successful.  :hmm:

Explain, please.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Camerus on May 19, 2011, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 19, 2011, 07:13:24 AM
The first video had what could be interpreted as some possible minor racist undertones, but it didn't strike me as being a good example of 'zomg, racism'!  It was, however, immensely retarded, so I didn't bother to watch the second one.

Tim, I am sure there must be Korean girls wiling to date foreigners.  China has many conservative girls too, but there are (a) a number of girls who aren't that conservative after all and (b) whores in every nook and cranny.  You aren't trying hard enough.


Are we really surprised that Timmay has trouble getting a date, not matter what country he's in?  In Korea, at least he can attributue it to racism on the part of the locals.  In the U.S., I guess he'd argue it's irrational prejudice against cancer survivors.

OTOH, he doesn't strike me as the type that would frequent prostitutes, so your observation about whores really doesn't matter to him.

Apart from his likely shyness and plethora of solitary interests such as reading and alt hist map making, Tim is actually a decent looking guy with a university education, nice personality and likely makes a decent income, especially compared to the locals.  So it is a bit surprising he is so defeatist on his prospects with the Korean ladies.

But I can't see Tim whoring, yeah.  Still, like chess, gin and the Church, it's just nice to know they'll always be there.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Explain, please.

He's such a nice young man.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 19, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Explain, please.

He's such a nice young man.

Perhaps but I don't think many parents would see a teacher as a catch.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 09:52:12 AMPerhaps but I don't think many parents would see a teacher as a catch.  :sleep:

That's because you use the well to do middle class as your universal measure. Whether it's an affectation to proclaim your belonging to that class or simple parochial ignorance, I'm not sure.

Plenty of parents would see a teacher as a catch.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 10:17:02 AM


Plenty of parents would see a teacher as a catch.
Especially in East Asia where teaching is very well respected.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 09:52:12 AMPerhaps but I don't think many parents would see a teacher as a catch.  :sleep:

That's because you use the well to do middle class as your universal measure. Whether it's an affectation to proclaim your belonging to that class or simple parochial ignorance, I'm not sure.

Plenty of parents would see a teacher as a catch.

I don't think that's it.  ET's statement was that if parents were to choose suitors in America that Tim would be pretty successful. Perhaps I'm overestimating the degree to which teachers are looked down upon (noble vocation and sacrifice...) but I don't really see that making him a catch.  I certainly don't think any of my teachers would have ever been considered a great catch.  The salary just isn't there unless you are already living below or near the poverty level.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:14:55 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 09:52:12 AMPerhaps but I don't think many parents would see a teacher as a catch.  :sleep:

That's because you use the well to do middle class as your universal measure. Whether it's an affectation to proclaim your belonging to that class or simple parochial ignorance, I'm not sure.

Plenty of parents would see a teacher as a catch.
Teachers are definitely less well regarded in the US than in Canada, for example.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
I don't think that's it.  ET's statement was that if parents were to choose suitors in America that Tim would be pretty successful. Perhaps I'm overestimating the degree to which teachers are looked down upon (noble vocation and sacrifice...) but I don't really see that making him a catch.  I certainly don't think any of my teachers would have ever been considered a great catch.  The salary just isn't there unless you are already living below or near the poverty level.

You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:42:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.
Once the doctors, lawyers and NFL quarterbacks are out of the way, they'd do alright.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:42:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.
Once the doctors, lawyers and NFL quarterbacks are out of the way, they'd do alright.

And business people and professors.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: The Brain on May 19, 2011, 11:48:06 AM
Can Tim pass for white? I've never met him.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:46:35 AM
Quote from: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:42:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.
Once the doctors, lawyers and NFL quarterbacks are out of the way, they'd do alright.
And business people and professors.
No, they'd be in pretty much the same range as most of those types, barring the successful business owners who would naturally be above the doctors and lawyers but below the QBs.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

I'd agree that in general, parents would prefer their daughter marry someone with higher income potential than a teacher.  But it would vary how much they would weight that preference vs. individual qualities.  And I would hope most parents would prefer their daughter marry a teacher who treats her like gold to a doctor who is either indifferent to her or treats her like crap.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

Let me build a metaphore for you, so you will get a clearer understanding of the point people are trying to make:

Let's say we're out walking [for the sake of this metaphore, let's just assume that we would for some reason] in the forest (or a gay bar, if that's more your thing) and suddenly a Bear comes running straight towards us. Now, I'm going to want to get away, naturally. I don't want to get pounded by a Bear. I don't have to outrun famous Black American sprinter Wilma Rudolph, or even the Bear. I just have to outrun you.

What I'm getting at, is that I only have to be faster, not fastest.

Do you see?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

Let me build a metaphore for you, so you will get a clearer understanding of the point people are trying to make:

Let's say we're out walking [for the sake of this metaphore, let's just assume that we would for some reason] in the forest (or a gay bar, if that's more your thing) and suddenly a Bear comes running straight towards us. Now, I'm going to want to get away, naturally. I don't want to get pounded by a Bear. I don't have to outrun famous Black American sprinter Wilma Rudolph, or even the Bear. I just have to outrun you.

What I'm getting at, is that I only have to be faster, not fastest.

Do you see?

Heh, one or both of you might *want* to be "pounded by a bear".  :P
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:59:10 AM
Then again, it seems that most American teachers are pedophiles, so there's a good chance of a prison sentence in their future.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 12:06:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

Let me build a metaphore for you, so you will get a clearer understanding of the point people are trying to make:

Let's say we're out walking [for the sake of this metaphore, let's just assume that we would for some reason] in the forest (or a gay bar, if that's more your thing) and suddenly a Bear comes running straight towards us. Now, I'm going to want to get away, naturally. I don't want to get pounded by a Bear. I don't have to outrun famous Black American sprinter Wilma Rudolph, or even the Bear. I just have to outrun you.

What I'm getting at, is that I only have to be faster, not fastest.

Do you see?

Heh, one or both of you might *want* to be "pounded by a bear".  :P

Why do you always have to sully my jokes with unecessarily adding a punchline that is already subtexted?  :P
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 12:06:04 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 11:58:29 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
You're underestimating the degree to which some parents hate their daughter's current boyfriend :contract:

Tim's a nice, clean-cut guy with an education and a stable career in front of him.  Contrast that with a tattooed/pierced dude who barely got through high school and has no career prospects, other than the extremely remote chance of his shitty band somehow getting a major record deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

Let me build a metaphore for you, so you will get a clearer understanding of the point people are trying to make:

Let's say we're out walking [for the sake of this metaphore, let's just assume that we would for some reason] in the forest (or a gay bar, if that's more your thing) and suddenly a Bear comes running straight towards us. Now, I'm going to want to get away, naturally. I don't want to get pounded by a Bear. I don't have to outrun famous Black American sprinter Wilma Rudolph, or even the Bear. I just have to outrun you.

What I'm getting at, is that I only have to be faster, not fastest.

Do you see?

Heh, one or both of you might *want* to be "pounded by a bear".  :P

Why do you always have to sully my jokes with unecessarily adding a punchline that is already subtexted?  :P

Joke ... or Freudian signalling?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 19, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
Let me build a metaphore for you, so you will get a clearer understanding of the point people are trying to make:

Let's say we're out walking [for the sake of this metaphore, let's just assume that we would for some reason] in the forest (or a gay bar, if that's more your thing) and suddenly a Bear comes running straight towards us. Now, I'm going to want to get away, naturally. I don't want to get pounded by a Bear. I don't have to outrun famous Black American sprinter Wilma Rudolph, or even the Bear. I just have to outrun you.

What I'm getting at, is that I only have to be faster, not fastest.

Do you see?

No that doesn't help me. Why settle?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tim doesn't have a lot going for him.  I'm just saying that if parents were to theoretically be picking out ideal candidates for their children, I don't think teacher would rise to the top.

I'd agree that in general, parents would prefer their daughter marry someone with higher income potential than a teacher.  But it would vary how much they would weight that preference vs. individual qualities.  And I would hope most parents would prefer their daughter marry a teacher who treats her like gold to a doctor who is either indifferent to her or treats her like crap.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Teaching is an eminently "respectable" occupation. Few would go for a teacher because they are gold-digging (unless for immigration purposes), but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for most folks, either.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 19, 2011, 12:26:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

Because having a respectable son-in-law and grandkids is better than having a spinster daughter?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Of course. I guess I just skew to a negative view of what parents would select for their children based on what arranged examples we currently have.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:29:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Of course. I guess I just skew to a negative view of what parents would select for their children based on what arranged examples we currently have.

The only actual example of an arranged marriage I know of is my brother-in-law ... and his wife ended up working to support him.  ;)

Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Jacob on May 19, 2011, 01:04:10 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:27:12 PMOf course. I guess I just skew to a negative view of what parents would select for their children based on what arranged examples we currently have.

Yeah we get it. To you the standard is (employed) lawyers, (successful) businessmen, (tenure track) academics and so on.

But to a whole host of blue collar workers and people for whom their university education has not led to an ever increasing salary, teaching is a perfectly respectable career.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Teaching is an eminently "respectable" occupation. Few would go for a teacher because they are gold-digging (unless for immigration purposes), but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for most folks, either.

Malthus: resident of Canada, or some magical realm where wishes become reality?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 04:27:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 19, 2011, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Teaching is an eminently "respectable" occupation. Few would go for a teacher because they are gold-digging (unless for immigration purposes), but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for most folks, either.

Malthus: resident of Canada, or some magical realm where wishes become reality?

Er, what?  :lol:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Fate on May 19, 2011, 05:40:02 PM
What's offensive about the second video? It was kind of catchy...  :hmm:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: dps on May 19, 2011, 05:54:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 19, 2011, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:16:33 PM
No that doesn't help me. Why settle?

To be serious for a moment - for many folks looking for a mate, job, income & social status are only one of many criteria - mostly, they have some lower paramaters of what they are willing to tolerate in that respect, but are generally pretty flexible as long as some lower level of 'respectability' is obtained, if their mate is otherwise intellegent, attractive, personally compatible, etc.

Of course. I guess I just skew to a negative view of what parents would select for their children based on what arranged examples we currently have.


Actually, I think that you've just bought too much into the teacher unions' propoganda about how poorly teachers are paid.

No, you're never going to get rich teaching, and their earnings are well behind that of succesful doctors or lawyers, but for most parents, the choice wouldn't be between marrying their daughter to a teacher or a lawyer.  The alternative in most of the good cases would be among a teacher, an accountant, the manager (not owner/operator, but manager) of a retail store or restaurant, or maybe the branch manager of a bank.  And the only one of those who is likely to make more money than a teacher over the course of their career is the banker.  And those are the good options.  The more likely options are blue collar types, which in the heyday of the Rust Belt would have had equal or better career earnings potential to most white collar types, but not so much nowdays.  Though if you just look at income, you could do a lot worse than marrying your daughter to a plumber.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Josquius on May 19, 2011, 06:30:48 PM
Indeed, a teacher is seen as very good as normal, every-day jobs go.
Stable, pays well, and its believed to speak well of the person- they're educated, like kids (ha! not half the teachers I've met...), etc....
It has status too, over and above the modern conditions enjoyed by teachers, as a traditional middle class job where teachers really were much better off and better educated than the rest of a town it still keeps a certain attraction.

Incidentally this has nothing to do with my becoming a teacher. That's purely for the money, adventure and learning.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Monoriu on May 20, 2011, 02:43:58 AM
I imagine that a teacher in HK would be *very* sought after.  They are certainly below lawyer, doctor and professor.  But they will be ahead of most white collar, middle level, non-professional managers. Their problem is their skewed sex ratio (95% female in my school).  Indeed, a major problem is that these females with terrific jobs have real problem finding husbands who make more than them. 
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Monoriu on May 20, 2011, 03:23:14 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 19, 2011, 09:12:38 AM

Apart from his likely shyness and plethora of solitary interests such as reading and alt hist map making, Tim is actually a decent looking guy with a university education, nice personality and likely makes a decent income, especially compared to the locals.  So it is a bit surprising he is so defeatist on his prospects with the Korean ladies.


I don't know.  On one hand, there seems a definite preference for guys with university education, nice personality and stable income.  But on the other hand, the unemployed high school dropout who has drug issues seems to have no problem picking up pretty girls either.  So I think that height, looks and perception of whether one is romantic or not are also important considerations.  I do think that nerds are at a severe disadvantage. 
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2011, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 05:54:01 PM
Actually, I think that you've just bought too much into the teacher unions' propoganda about how poorly teachers are paid.

That, and a teacher's salary looks very different if you're living in NY and SF than if you're living in flyover country.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.

You didn't know me well? :(
I dated some Korean girls while I was there. But then, I'm devilishly handsome.  :cool:
On the topic of race, I have/had a couple of black friends there that enjoyed living there and stayed for 2 years. Doesn't mean they weren't discriminated against, of course, but it might be that blacks are now only discriminated against slightly more than your average foreigner.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Zoupa on May 22, 2011, 03:16:49 PM
http://youtu.be/69OeMHN90m8 (http://youtu.be/69OeMHN90m8)

Seedy, Ide, you're welcome. That's all I have to say about South Korea.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Ideologue on May 22, 2011, 03:22:20 PM
I liked the choreography.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on May 22, 2011, 03:26:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2011, 09:21:00 AM
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 05:54:01 PM
Actually, I think that you've just bought too much into the teacher unions' propoganda about how poorly teachers are paid.

That, and a teacher's salary looks very different if you're living in NY and SF than if you're living in flyover country.

It's more or less a national pay scale here in the UK. So a teacher might make £35k in London (rather poor) and maybe £30k in a place like county Durham (rather good). In a depressed town like my hometown they would be close to the top of the tree.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Razgovory on May 22, 2011, 03:50:27 PM
I know many teachers in my school district had a hard time making ends meet.  The band teacher had a second job as a fast food joint.  Probably a clever ruse by the Teacher's Union.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.

You didn't know me well? :(
I dated some Korean girls while I was there. But then, I'm devilishly handsome.  :cool:
Weren't you dating a Mongolian girl?
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: Siege on May 22, 2011, 06:00:01 PM
Its only racist if you are making fun of arabs.

Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on May 22, 2011, 03:16:49 PM
http://youtu.be/69OeMHN90m8 (http://youtu.be/69OeMHN90m8)

Seedy, Ide, you're welcome. That's all I have to say about South Korea.  :sleep:

I've always preferred Girls Generation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mPqycQ0tQ)
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.

You didn't know me well? :(
I dated some Korean girls while I was there. But then, I'm devilishly handsome.  :cool:
Weren't you dating a Mongolian girl?

I dated a Mongolian girl and I dated a couple of Korean girls. One for about 2 and a half months.
Title: Re: Race and Korea
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2011, 09:26:49 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 22, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 22, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2011, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2011, 05:12:46 AM
I don't get it.
Why do they have some African dude slowly asking about nam san tower?
And is it just me or does the song start with the guy saying 'Jesus milk'?

QuoteExoticness mostly works against you here. I didn't pick the 1950s for nothing when describing the social scene. On the surface at least Korean women are very conservative and most wouldn't touch a foreigner like that. Another problem is most women still live with their parents and have a curfew until they're married.
No, exoticness mostly works against YOU there. :P
I have heard Korea is a good place to get girls for western folk...however folk who couldn't get anything at home aren't going to magically turn into chick magnets in Asia. Still have to try a bit.
I know a couple of dozen guys well here. Only one has had a serious korean girlfriend and he was manwhore back home with dozens of notches in his belt. And it still took him six whole months to figure them out and get a date with a Korean. Almost all of the guys I know here have simply given up and just date the foreign girls.  Some of them had great success in Japan but nothing here.

You didn't know me well? :(
I dated some Korean girls while I was there. But then, I'm devilishly handsome.  :cool:
Weren't you dating a Mongolian girl?

I dated a Mongolian girl and I dated a couple of Korean girls. One for about 2 and a half months.
You lived in a city with 3 million people, I live in a country town with 20k, not exactly as favorable an environment.