http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/video_derrion_albert
Saw this on the Interwebs while browsing. Comments?
:lol:
You don't want to hear what I have to comment.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 02:06:37 AM
:lol:
You don't want to hear what I have to comment.
Nothing I haven't already said before.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 02:06:37 AM
:lol:
You don't want to hear what I have to comment.
I was particularly interested in your comment. I like a good laugh in the morning; spice up my day. :D
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids. In fact, who's to say they weren't? I am colour blind, and race is just a construct.
From the article, it sounds like these gang fights were a regular occurence, and it certainly seems on the video that nothing out of the ordinary happens. So how come there are no cops around anywhere?
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids. In fact, who's to say they weren't? I am colour blind, and race is just a construct.
WTF are you babbling about now?
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
WTF are you babbling about now?
People think with their skins, didn't you know. The amount of melanin in the skin directly affects one's actions.
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids. In fact, who's to say they weren't? I am colour blind, and race is just a construct.
WTF are you babbling about now?
[Translation into American English]
The peculiar thing about this event is not very peculiar. A bunch of black kids beat up on a bunch of other black kids. That you're passing it off as "gang violence" is funny because it completely glosses over the issue here, which is the violence inherent in black culture. Violence per capita is much lower for whites.
[/Translation into American English]
Whether the root of this is racial or cultural, I couldn't really say.
is this black culture anything like white culture?
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids.
I you really don't think so, it just proves that you don't know shit about America.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:18:33 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids. In fact, who's to say they weren't? I am colour blind, and race is just a construct.
WTF are you babbling about now?
[Translation into American English]
The peculiar thing about this event is not very peculiar. A bunch of black kids beat up on a bunch of other black kids. That you're passing it off as "gang violence" is funny because it completely glosses over the issue here, which is the violence inherent in black culture. Violence per capita is much lower for whites.
[/Translation into American English]
Whether the root of this is racial or cultural, I couldn't really say.
I am passing it off as "gang violence" because that is exactly what it is - are you claiming these people were not gang members?
Violence per capita is lower for whites - but what about violence in gangs that are, say, hispanic? Chinese? Oh, I don't fucking know...Italian? have you ever heard of the mafia?
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:18:33 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids. In fact, who's to say they weren't? I am colour blind, and race is just a construct.
WTF are you babbling about now?
[Translation into American English]
The peculiar thing about this event is not very peculiar. A bunch of black kids beat up on a bunch of other black kids. That you're passing it off as "gang violence" is funny because it completely glosses over the issue here, which is the violence inherent in black culture. Violence per capita is much lower for whites.
[/Translation into American English]
Whether the root of this is racial or cultural, I couldn't really say.
I am passing it off as "just gang violence" because that is exactly what it is - are you claiming these people were not gang members?
Violence per capita is lower for whites - but what about violence in gangs that are, say, hispanic? Chinese? Oh, I don't fucking know...Italian? have you ever heard of the mafia?
No, I'm not claiming they weren't gang members. However, I think that considering this "gang violence" and being satisfied with that ignores a huge part of the problem, which is a culture of crime and violence.
Maybe that's not your intent, and maybe my perception is distorted by coming from a culture where violent behaviour is actively glossed over by talking about "garden implement" rather than "spade" (or, since I suspect that as usual I'm being far too obtuse, "youth violence" rather than "immigrant violence") when fire trucks need police escorts to put out dumpster fires. Hint: It's not ethnically Swedish youth tossing the rocks and stealing tools from the trucks.
Edit: The thought struck me that perhaps you are the one with the broken viewpoint given that the concept of "just gang violence" has achieved normalcy for you. For me it's still appalling.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids.
I you really don't think so, it just proves that you don't know shit about America.
Let me just clarify: Do you assert that white youth (and I mean white, not hispanic) are just as involved in gang violence per capita as black youth are?
Quote from: Zeus on May 09, 2011, 07:38:27 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 02:06:37 AM
:lol:
You don't want to hear what I have to comment.
I was particularly interested in your comment. I like a good laugh in the morning; spice up my day. :D
As if I'm hard to bait on this subject, you little runt. :D
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids.
I you really don't think so, it just proves that you don't know shit about America.
Let me just clarify: Do you assert that white youth (and I mean white, not hispanic) are just as involved in gang violence per capita as black youth are?
No, I'm asserting that gang violence involving white youth gangs is not terribly uncommon. Or, put another way, if someone were to show us a video, and tell us beforehand that it showed youth gang violence in America, we should not be surprised if the gang members in the video are white.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids.
I you really don't think so, it just proves that you don't know shit about America.
Let me just clarify: Do you assert that white youth (and I mean white, not hispanic) are just as involved in gang violence per capita as black youth are?
No, I'm asserting that gang violence involving white youth gangs is not terribly uncommon. Or, put another way, if someone were to show us a video, and tell us beforehand that it showed youth gang violence in America, we should not be surprised if the gang members in the video are white.
Sure, but I think the probability of it being blacks would be far higher.
Regardless, why do you then have a problem when I say that this is a black problem? "Whites also commit crime" doesn't change the fact that blacks are disproportionately represented in the prison population.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 12:43:45 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 11:28:13 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 09, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah, gang violence sucks. What is there to say?
Sure. It's just generic gang violence. Nothing more to remark here.
Could've just as well been a gang of white kids.
I you really don't think so, it just proves that you don't know shit about America.
Let me just clarify: Do you assert that white youth (and I mean white, not hispanic) are just as involved in gang violence per capita as black youth are?
No, I'm asserting that gang violence involving white youth gangs is not terribly uncommon. Or, put another way, if someone were to show us a video, and tell us beforehand that it showed youth gang violence in America, we should not be surprised if the gang members in the video are white.
Sure, but I think the probability of it being blacks would be far higher.
Regardless, why do you then have a problem when I say that this is a black problem? "Whites also commit crime" doesn't change the fact that blacks are disproportionately represented in the prison population.
That just means that we aren't putting enough whites into prison.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 12:50:25 PM
That just means that we aren't putting enough whites into prison.
See, this is where I think "colour-blindness" has simply gone off the deep end, when the urge to be "correct" has stunted our ability to discriminate where it's actually advantageous to do so. A good example is the recent Norwegian law that mandates all females of a certain age need to be screened for possible genital mutilation when the group at risk for this is very limited (more or less exclusively african) but the argument is that unless all girls are checked the at-risk groups will feel offended. I don't recall if it was ever put into effect, or whether it was and subsequently rescinded, but I do recall that it was a hot issue and specifically the left was very intent on introducing it.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 12:55:50 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 12:50:25 PM
That just means that we aren't putting enough whites into prison.
See, this is where I think "colour-blindness" has simply gone off the deep end, when the urge to be "correct" has stunted our ability to discriminate where it's actually advantageous to do so. A good example is the recent Norwegian law that mandates all females of a certain age need to be screened for possible genital mutilation when the group at risk for this is very limited (more or less exclusively african) but the argument is that unless all girls are checked the at-risk groups will feel offended. I don't recall if it was ever put into effect, or whether it was and subsequently rescinded, but I do recall that it was a hot issue and specifically the left was very intent on introducing it.
That's not what you were saying earlier, though. You were at least implying that the gang violence was a problem that only or almost only exists among black (and Hispanic) youth. I'm saying it's not uncommon among white youth, either, especially in poor white neighborhoods (though it's not totally unknown even in well-to-do white neighborhoods). In my book, if you want to behave like an animal, you need to be dealt with by the criminal justice system, no matter what color your skin is.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 01:06:22 PM
That's not what you were saying earlier, though. You were at least implying that the gang violence was a problem that only or almost only exists among black (and Hispanic) youth. I'm saying it's not uncommon among white youth, either, especially in poor white neighborhoods (though it's not totally unknown even in well-to-do white neighborhoods). In my book, if you want to behave like an animal, you need to be dealt with by the criminal justice system, no matter what color your skin is.
Then let me set the book straight right now: This is not exclusively a black problem. Just look at Britain. Chavs may be scum, but black they ain't.
I believe, however, that most of the white youth behaving in the same fashion to a great extent have been integrated into black culture. At least in Sweden, it is far more common for Swedish youth to operate as PART of "ethnic" gangs rather than as part of entirely Swedish gangs when it comes to crimes like unprovoked assault (Even if it's a common and popular pastime in rural Sweden to meet up at pre-determined locations either by mutual agreement or by tradition and have a bit of a fight. Typically, however, it's just fisticuffs and people don't stomp on the heads of the vanquished which is a popular Arab tradition.) and robbery.
I also believe that by intentionally blinding yourself by taking the position that these crimes are individual and unrelated, and that every instance needs to be treated as if it happens in a vaccuum, you're also prohibiting yourself from dealing with the root causes.
AFAIK, the last 4 years there's not been a SINGLE recorded instance of an out-door assault-rape in Oslo (I don't recall your terminology for it, think hide-in-the-bushes-rape) where the offender was a Norwegian (and as usual I'm talking about actual Norwegians here, not "Norwegian citizens") and to my mind it's simply INSANE to not stop and consider what the fuck is going on. The "it could just as well have been Norwegians what dunit" is clearly a lie, and treating every incident as unrelated to the others leaves you unable to deal with it.
I didn't click the video.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2011, 01:31:02 PM
I didn't click the video.
You probably saw it somewhere already. It's old as schtick.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 01:18:01 PMand to my mind it's simply INSANE to not stop and consider what the fuck is going on.
what, that norwegians rape in the confines of their home or parties and aren't forced to wander the streets because they have already enough drugged up and passed out wimminz around?
Quote from: LaCroix on May 09, 2011, 03:27:04 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 01:18:01 PMand to my mind it's simply INSANE to not stop and consider what the fuck is going on.
what, that norwegians rape in the confines of their home or parties and aren't forced to wander the streets because they have already enough drugged up and passed out wimminz around?
Maybe.
I just think it's inane to not want to ask the question.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 01:06:22 PM
That's not what you were saying earlier, though. You were at least implying that the gang violence was a problem that only or almost only exists among black (and Hispanic) youth. I'm saying it's not uncommon among white youth, either, especially in poor white neighborhoods (though it's not totally unknown even in well-to-do white neighborhoods). In my book, if you want to behave like an animal, you need to be dealt with by the criminal justice system, no matter what color your skin is.
Then let me set the book straight right now: This is not exclusively a black problem. Just look at Britain. Chavs may be scum, but black they ain't.
I believe, however, that most of the white youth behaving in the same fashion to a great extent have been integrated into black culture. At least in Sweden, it is far more common for Swedish youth to operate as PART of "ethnic" gangs rather than as part of entirely Swedish gangs when it comes to crimes like unprovoked assault (Even if it's a common and popular pastime in rural Sweden to meet up at pre-determined locations either by mutual agreement or by tradition and have a bit of a fight. Typically, however, it's just fisticuffs and people don't stomp on the heads of the vanquished which is a popular Arab tradition.) and robbery.
I also believe that by intentionally blinding yourself by taking the position that these crimes are individual and unrelated, and that every instance needs to be treated as if it happens in a vaccuum, you're also prohibiting yourself from dealing with the root causes.
AFAIK, the last 4 years there's not been a SINGLE recorded instance of an out-door assault-rape in Oslo (I don't recall your terminology for it, think hide-in-the-bushes-rape) where the offender was a Norwegian (and as usual I'm talking about actual Norwegians here, not "Norwegian citizens") and to my mind it's simply INSANE to not stop and consider what the fuck is going on. The "it could just as well have been Norwegians what dunit" is clearly a lie, and treating every incident as unrelated to the others leaves you unable to deal with it.
Given that in this courntry there were white youth gangs at a time when most blacks were still held in slavery, I don't think that whites involved in gang violence got it from integrating into black culture.
For a lot of things, I would agree with you that there are certain practices which are tied closely to certain groups (for example, female genital multilation), but youth gang violence isn't one of them, and your apparant belief that it is just illustrates my earlier point that you don't know jack about America.
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
That's interesting. Sources/links?
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 04:49:07 PM
Given that in this courntry there were white youth gangs at a time when most blacks were still held in slavery, I don't think that whites involved in gang violence got it from integrating into black culture.
For a lot of things, I would agree with you that there are certain practices which are tied closely to certain groups (for example, female genital multilation), but youth gang violence isn't one of them, and your apparant belief that it is just illustrates my earlier point that you don't know jack about America.
Assertion. You need to show that this type of gang violence was actually common before you can make that argument. All I know is that it's a frequent and common part of black culture today.
You're probably right that my knowledge of the minutiae of American gang violence is limited, however.
I do know that incarceration rates for blacks are off the charts in the US, and the same is true in Sweden.
Again, you assert that youth gang violence cannot be tied to any specific group, but earlier you said that in fact whites are NOT as frequently involved in gang violence as blacks. What's it going to be?
This kumbaya we-are-the-world everyone-is-equal crap will not fly no matter how much you pretend it.
Institutional racism forces blacks into involuntary assault and battery? Or does it just prosecute them more frequently, and let white criminals slide? There has to be SOME explanation why there are so many negroes in prison.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
Heh, the major stereotype associated with Swedes in NA was ... stupidity. The term "dumb as a Swede" or "dumb Swede" used to be common.
There is even a Robert Service poem based on this (though in it the "Dumb Swede" turns the tables on the slicks who take advantage of him):
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/dumb-swede/
QuoteDumb Swede
With barbwire hooch they filled him full,
Till he was drunker than all hell,
And then they peddled him the bull
About a claim they had to sell.
A thousand bucks they made him pay,
Knowing that he had nothing more,
And when he begged it back next day,
And wept! - they kicked him from the door.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
I'm very surprised to hear that since typically Scandinavians have historically been considerd honest and hard working to a fault (see Malthus' pathetic attempt at prodding me, for instance, where honesty turns into stupidity) whereever they go and I would very much like to know more. I'm sure you have sources to back your claims up.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prisonpolicy.org%2Fimages%2Fraceinc.jpg&hash=eb44362cac1e5b5880a40f115da44fb1e02177a9)
I'm sure it's all ghettoes and institutional racism to blame.
Nothing more to see here.
Though frankly, I am not opposed to considering the Anglo angle aswell. They are after all a serial-bastardized people. Negroes and the English. What a fine couple they make. :hmm:
I've always wondered what makes Americans such a violent culture, but it makes perfect sense, really.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
I'm very surprised to hear that since typically Scandinavians have historically been considerd honest and hard working to a fault (see Malthus' pathetic attempt at prodding me, for instance, where honesty turns into stupidity) whereever they go and I would very much like to know more. I'm sure you have sources to back your claims up.
Heh, I'm thinking that old stereotype of the "dumb Swede" has some life in it yet ... :D
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 05:35:09 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
I'm very surprised to hear that since typically Scandinavians have historically been considerd honest and hard working to a fault (see Malthus' pathetic attempt at prodding me, for instance, where honesty turns into stupidity) whereever they go and I would very much like to know more. I'm sure you have sources to back your claims up.
Heh, I'm thinking that old stereotype of the "dumb Swede" has some life in it yet ... :D
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:31:50 PM
I've always wondered what makes Americans such a violent culture, but it makes perfect sense, really.
chewing gum.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 04:49:07 PM
Given that in this courntry there were white youth gangs at a time when most blacks were still held in slavery, I don't think that whites involved in gang violence got it from integrating into black culture.
For a lot of things, I would agree with you that there are certain practices which are tied closely to certain groups (for example, female genital multilation), but youth gang violence isn't one of them, and your apparant belief that it is just illustrates my earlier point that you don't know jack about America.
Assertion. You need to show that this type of gang violence was actually common before you can make that argument. All I know is that it's a frequent and common part of black culture today.
Uhm, I don't know exactly how to respond to that. As an American, I grew up seeing stuff like this all the time--usually not personally, but it was alway out there. It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution. I can't really direct you to archives of gang fights that I and people I know saw when we were in high school.
You know, this kind of scares me about the internet. For some people nowdays, it's like something isn't real if you can't post a link to it.
Quote
I do know that incarceration rates for blacks are off the charts in the US, and the same is true in Sweden.
Again, you assert that youth gang violence cannot be tied to any specific group, but earlier you said that in fact whites are NOT as frequently involved in gang violence as blacks. What's it going to be?
Why should it have to be one or the other? It's as if you had asserted that only people who are 6'10" or more can play in the NBA, when in fact there are a lot of players in the 6'2" to 6'9" range who do so. Yeah, I'm sure that the percentage of people over 6'10" who can play in the NBA is a lot higher than the percentage of 6'6" people who can, but it doesn't mean that only those over 6'10" can have a pro basketball career.
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 05:35:09 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:19:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 05:04:02 PM
Slargles, you're pretty ignorant of American history if you think violent gangs in the ghetto are a black thing.
There's been violent Irish gangs, Chinese gangs, Italian gangs, Jewish gangs and so in the various ghettos across the US. It's almost as if it's the poverty and ghetto life that gives rise to gang violence and not ethnicity.
In the 20s and 30s, in Vancouver, it were Swedes who were thought to be the sub-human, violence prone, leeching elements of society; even to the point that there were riots against them.
I'm very surprised to hear that since typically Scandinavians have historically been considerd honest and hard working to a fault (see Malthus' pathetic attempt at prodding me, for instance, where honesty turns into stupidity) whereever they go and I would very much like to know more. I'm sure you have sources to back your claims up.
Heh, I'm thinking that old stereotype of the "dumb Swede" has some life in it yet ... :D
St. Olaf.
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
It always sort of looked like a dangling scrotum ... ;)
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
It always sort of looked like a dangling scrotum ... ;)
Veerryy interessstttinng. Tell us about your mother.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
It always sort of looked like a dangling scrotum ... ;)
Veerryy interessstttinng. Tell us about your mother.
If a dangling scrotum reminds you of mother, you have a problem. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
It always sort of looked like a dangling scrotum ... ;)
Veerryy interessstttinng. Tell us about your mother.
If a dangling scrotum reminds you of mother, you have a problem. ;)
whoosh
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:26:38 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 09, 2011, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
I was going to say that I won't bite and that you might aswell give up, but then...
I considered what Sweden looks like today, and I think there's more to the stereotype than I'd like to admit.
It always sort of looked like a dangling scrotum ... ;)
Veerryy interessstttinng. Tell us about your mother.
If a dangling scrotum reminds you of mother, you have a problem. ;)
whoosh
Double-whoosh.
Quote from: Pat on May 09, 2011, 05:08:09 PMThat's interesting. Sources/links?
The main time I heard about it was from guy I knew (we were taking Kung Fu classes). He was saying his grandfather remembered anti-Swedish riots along Hastings Street in his time (which I believe was the 20s and 30s). We talked about it a few times, but this was more than a decade ago.
It's not exactly the most documented part of history, especially on the internet. The most related thing I've found is this:
QuoteIn November of 1930, H.W. Cooper, relief officer for the City of Vancouver, interviewed unemployed "Swedish-Finlander" loggers who were facing eviction from the Hotel Stanley because they could not pay for their rooms. "Most of them started long ago to sell their clothes at ridiculously low prices," he wrote. "Money for food is hard to obtain... some men have been going without food for two days or more. They are in a hopeless condition and expect to be turned out on the street any day... The men seem to be honest and hard working. They want to earn a living and pay their debts."
This is from a period that saw a lot of riots and social unrest in Vancouver. The rest of the link: http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/095103/news/095103nn1.html talks about it in terms of the homeless and political agitation and so on, without any mentioning of ethnicity.
Vancouver did have a sizeable Swedish immigration to work in the fisheries and lumber industries in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:14:37 PM
Uhm, I don't know exactly how to respond to that. As an American, I grew up seeing stuff like this all the time--usually not personally, but it was alway out there. It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution. I can't really direct you to archives of gang fights that I and people I know saw when we were in high school.
You know, this kind of scares me about the internet. For some people nowdays, it's like something isn't real if you can't post a link to it.
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
Quote
Why should it have to be one or the other? It's as if you had asserted that only people who are 6'10" or more can play in the NBA, when in fact there are a lot of players in the 6'2" to 6'9" range who do so. Yeah, I'm sure that the percentage of people over 6'10" who can play in the NBA is a lot higher than the percentage of 6'6" people who can, but it doesn't mean that only those over 6'10" can have a pro basketball career.
Again, what the fuck does it matter that some X are Y when MOST X are Z?
"OMG BECAUSE ONE FORD SI WHITE NOT ALL FORDS WUZ BLACK LOL FORD WAZ LIAR!"
Quote from: Slargos on May 09, 2011, 05:31:50 PM
Though frankly, I am not opposed to considering the Anglo angle aswell. They are after all a serial-bastardized people. Negroes and the English. What a fine couple they make. :hmm:
I've always wondered what makes Americans such a violent culture, but it makes perfect sense, really.
Perhaps if you were a more violent people you'd still have an empire.
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:14:37 PM
. It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.
This sound hilarious. Do you have a link to the thread?
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2011, 07:55:31 PM
Quote from: Pat on May 09, 2011, 05:08:09 PMThat's interesting. Sources/links?
The main time I heard about it was from guy I knew (we were taking Kung Fu classes). He was saying his grandfather remembered anti-Swedish riots along Hastings Street in his time (which I believe was the 20s and 30s). We talked about it a few times, but this was more than a decade ago.
It's not exactly the most documented part of history, especially on the internet. The most related thing I've found is this:
QuoteIn November of 1930, H.W. Cooper, relief officer for the City of Vancouver, interviewed unemployed "Swedish-Finlander" loggers who were facing eviction from the Hotel Stanley because they could not pay for their rooms. "Most of them started long ago to sell their clothes at ridiculously low prices," he wrote. "Money for food is hard to obtain... some men have been going without food for two days or more. They are in a hopeless condition and expect to be turned out on the street any day... The men seem to be honest and hard working. They want to earn a living and pay their debts."
This is from a period that saw a lot of riots and social unrest in Vancouver. The rest of the link: http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/095103/news/095103nn1.html (http://archive.vancourier.com/issues03/095103/news/095103nn1.html) talks about it in terms of the homeless and political agitation and so on, without any mentioning of ethnicity.
Vancouver did have a sizeable Swedish immigration to work in the fisheries and lumber industries in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
Amazing. It must be some cover up, because those types of social conditions are typically used as excuses for theft, robberies, rapes and rock throwing against the fire department. But I guess all that happened and more, it's just that there's no mention of it anywhere.
Well done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.
I know that I'm preaching to a mob of Dawkinses here, but really, this is too much.
so, if everyone happened to be the same color, and the same problems were prevalent, who would be at fault? those bastards from skane?
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:10:43 AMWell done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.
What the fuck do you care what's happening in the US? The black male 20-29 bracket in the US? What do you actually know about it and what does it matter to you?
Quote from: LaCroix on May 10, 2011, 01:59:16 AM
so, if everyone happened to be the same color, and the same problems were prevalent, who would be at fault? those bastards from skane?
If everyone happened to be a pink elephant, I'm sure we'd be having a discussion of an entirely different nature. However, we're not, and I won't entertain that discussion.
Quote from: Jacob on May 10, 2011, 02:24:36 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:10:43 AMWell done, Jacob. You've really taken the edge off any argument I could make, and you've completely justified the fact that about one in four black males in the 20-29 bracket in the US are being processed by the justice system at any given point in time.
What the fuck do you care what's happening in the US? The black male 20-29 bracket in the US? What do you actually know about it and what does it matter to you?
I'll answer your question in turn.
1. I don't, really. It doesn't actively affect me other than with its ripple effects. However, I've never been the kind of person who needs to be personally affected by an injustice in order to care about it. Regardless of this, it is certainly germane to the discussion since we are talking about american black gang violence and the relative incidence of violence and incarceration rate of (shock and surprise) americans on the basis of race.
2. Yes, it was the first one I found statistics on so I presented it. And it's probably the most relevant one.
3. I only know what I've read. Again, it doesn't really, but am I not allowed to discuss a subject because I'm not personally affected by it in my daily life? Funny way of looking at things.
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:14:37 PM
Uhm, I don't know exactly how to respond to that. As an American, I grew up seeing stuff like this all the time--usually not personally, but it was alway out there. It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution. I can't really direct you to archives of gang fights that I and people I know saw when we were in high school.
You know, this kind of scares me about the internet. For some people nowdays, it's like something isn't real if you can't post a link to it.
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
No, I'm saying that I've personally witnessed gang violence involvinge white youth gangs.
Quote
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
I thought we were talking about both current conditions and the historical record.
I don't know what diversionary tactics you're talking about. I certainly don't deny that gang violence is more prevalent among young blacks than it is among young whites, I'm just saying that it's not uncommon in either group. I live here, I see stuff that goes on here, you don't.
Quote from: chipwich on May 10, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: dps on May 09, 2011, 06:14:37 PM
. It sort of like when we were trying to convince Tyr or some other Brit that the President doesn't appoint members of the Senate, except in that case, we could at least quote him the text of the Constitution.
This sound hilarious. Do you have a link to the thread?
Nah, unfortunately this was on the old forum, maybe 4 or 5 years ago IIRC. If I'm mistaken about how long it's been, and it was within the last 2 years, it's still here somewhere, I guess.
Quote from: dps on May 10, 2011, 03:49:45 PM
I thought we were talking about both current conditions and the historical record.
I don't know what diversionary tactics you're talking about. I certainly don't deny that gang violence is more prevalent among young blacks than it is among young whites, I'm just saying that it's not uncommon in either group. I live here, I see stuff that goes on here, you don't.
You're talking in circles. At no point during this confusing repartee have I even implied that whites are never guilty of violence.
Everything Slargos said is true. You wouldn't believe how many people I've beat down since Monday.
You know I mentioned I took a tour of the local Remand Jail last week.
The guards mentioned gangs, and gang violence, repeatedly. Do you know the biggest gangs they have?
Native Gangs - the Alberta Warriors in particular, but also Indian Posse and a bunch of others.
After that... I'm not sure if it's the blacks (largely somalis and Jamaicans), or the whites (mostly biker affiliated). I don't actually remember them talking about Asian gangs, thhough I know they exist out in BC.
So Slargos, since this topic is obviously important to you, how do you translate your words and feelings into actual action in the real world?
A gift for Slargos, sure to make him happy ... enjoy! :D
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/14575982/mob-of-thieves-swarms-las-vegas-convenience-store
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
Have you never seen a Western? How about a movie set during prohibition? Gangs of New York?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2011, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
Have you never seen a Western? How about a movie set during prohibition? Gangs of New York?
:lol:
That's a very unfortunate argument. :lol:
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 10, 2011, 06:32:26 PM
So Slargos, since this topic is obviously important to you, how do you translate your words and feelings into actual action in the real world?
I like to steal black babies and dash them against castle walls.
Hey Slargypants -
Do you remember the whole Scandinavian biker conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War)? All those murders and attempted murders in the 80s and 90s? Those people were all white.
Same thing over here. Probably the most influential and violent gang in the Vancouver area is the Hells Angels and those guys are basically all white.
How does that fit with your racial theories of crime?
Quote from: Jacob on May 11, 2011, 12:28:59 AM
Hey Slargypants -
Do you remember the whole Scandinavian biker conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War)? All those murders and attempted murders in the 80s and 90s? Those people were all white.
Same thing over here. Probably the most influential and violent gang in the Vancouver area is the Hells Angels and those guys are basically all white.
How does that fit with your racial theories of crime?
Shocking. They must be blacks in whiteface.
Quote from: Slargos on May 11, 2011, 12:13:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2011, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
Have you never seen a Western? How about a movie set during prohibition? Gangs of New York?
:lol:
That's a very unfortunate argument. :lol:
Every gang in that movie was real and white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy
I just keep it simple and presume that all humans are equally capable of being scumbags.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2011, 01:07:30 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 11, 2011, 12:13:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2011, 09:08:37 PM
Quote from: Slargos on May 10, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Oh come off it.
Are you saying you were young during Slavery?
Because I thought we were talking about gangs during the time when Blacks were apparently not able to form gangs. You are all over the place, man. Unfortunately, you're not talking to someone who'll fall for your "woes won't you think of the black children" bullshit diversionary tactics.
Have you never seen a Western? How about a movie set during prohibition? Gangs of New York?
:lol:
That's a very unfortunate argument. :lol:
Every gang in that movie was real and white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York#Historical_accuracy)
Nah, that's a jewish conspiracy. They were all juden.
Dead Rabbits fight the Bowery Boys
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F05%2FDead_rabbits_barricade_new_york.jpg%2F800px-Dead_rabbits_barricade_new_york.jpg&hash=02eb0ffe897791ba92c58aa01ae08e63d3c8ea3e)
Do you SEE the size of their noses?
It's plain as day.