Portugal has thrown in the towel and requested a formal bailout.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8433352/Portugal-We-need-European-aid.html] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8433352/Portugal-We-need-European-aid.html)
Quote"I want to inform the Portuguese that the government decided today to ask...for financial help, to ensure financing for our country, for our financial system and for our economy,"
So, how long until Spain folds?
lol, port and cork.
Quote from: Legbiter on April 06, 2011, 08:07:47 PM
So, how long until Spain folds?
I don't think Spain is going to croak.
Flow with the sick lyrical upper cut punch.
Portugal should be made, at gun point, to auction off its assets to repay the debt. Land, stakes in national companies, museum collections, military assets etc :menace:
They need a patch to fix that auto loan problem.
Two words: THE PITS!
Our PM is a total retard, and has been stalling this for political gain, almost to the last cent in the state's coffers. The Banks had been cut off by the ECB and were about to die. The bailout request only came because the bankers got furious at the prospect of going bankrupt because of some stupid political ego and cut off all financing to the State.
Note that our politicians are so greedy that the PM will run for reelection in June. And he rose dramatically in the polls in the last week, so don't be surprised if we end up with a situation where nobody can get a majority government, not even with a coalition.
Quote from: Legbiter
So, how long until Spain folds?
Long before Spain, we have to look at Belgium - 375 billion euro in debt and NO government to control its debt, even after 280 days after the election. If the local politicians don't get their act together, that country will collapse before the end of the year.
Quote from: Monoriu
Portugal should be made, at gun point, to auction off its assets to repay the debt. Land, stakes in national companies, museum collections, military assets etc
Not enough to pay off the debt, sorry. We don't really have military assets and our museum collections are mostly crap. The State has no idea what land it owns, and while national companies WILL have to be privatized, the total income is just a fraction of what we will need (some 75-90 billion euro).
That is why Germany has the common european governance standards, to ensure we won't go amok with our finances again. But first the living standards need to be dramatically cut.
(Today we had another strike in the Subway, whose drivers want huge raises. After all, they only make five times the national average)
Sad to see this happen. I wonder what the financial or other impacts will be on the average person?
Maybe the US can bail out Portugal. We seem to have plenty of (other people's borrowed) money. ;)
Martim, do you think Brazil should buy Portugal? Will you bow to: Imperatriz Dilma? :)
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 07:41:27 AM
(Today we had another strike in the Subway, whose drivers want huge raises. After all, they only make five times the national average)
I support this, but I can understand why some people would question their timing.
Quote from: KRonn on April 07, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
Sad to see this happen. I wonder what the financial or other impacts will be on the average person?
They will be brutal. After the 1975 Revolution, the new regime decided to create a whole new class to support it, and it chose the Civil Servants to do so.
As a result, their numbers boomed. To give you an example, with a population of 10 million, Portugal has 700,000 Civil Servants (small military included). In comparision, the US has a population of 308 million and 4.4 million Civil Servants (large military included).
Most of our civil servants don't really work, so it is clear that they'll either get massive paycuts or be laid off in gigantic droves.
Quote from: Caliga
Martim, do you think Brazil should buy Portugal? Will you bow to: Imperatriz Dilma
Germany has already set foot here and said: "Mine!". The French timidly are kinda trying to do the same (For historical reasons, Germany is much more popular here than France is).
While Dilma simply scurried off (literally; she cancelled every appointment and went straight back to her plane) when the issue of buying our debt came up. Brazil simply cannot afford it - for all it's talk, it is a developing nation, and this is Europe we are talking about.
So, we'll be bowing to Kaiserin Merkel (might as well, as most of Merkel's cabinet doesn't. They obey mostly out of duty. Truth be said, to make German cabinet ministers/secretaries comply immediately and without complaints nothing beats a solid male voice).
Quote from: Liep
I support this, but I can understand why some people would question their timing.
Actually, they've been striking from 6h30 to 11h30 AM every Tuesday and Thursday for about a month now. Ditto for the Trains. Sometimes, the Buses also join. The administrations put out huge boards saying that the workers are "irresponsible", especially because those companies only have funds to keep working until June (more now, due to IMF/EU funding).
On a sidenote, people here are saying that, besides the IMF (which we say FMI), we also need the FBI to come, in order to jail all the corrupt people in the country.
eh, it's a Catholic country... it'd probably be easier to jail the non-corrupt people. :)
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 09:36:03 AM
They will be brutal. After the 1975 Revolution, the new regime decided to create a whole new class to support it, and it chose the Civil Servants to do so.
As a result, their numbers boomed. To give you an example, with a population of 10 million, Portugal has 700,000 Civil Servants (small military included). In comparision, the US has a population of 308 million and 4.4 million Civil Servants (large military included).
Did anyone actually think that would work long term or were they all just "screw the next generation" while uttering an evil laugh? :huh:
Great. First the 'no dicks' thing, and now this. :(
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 09:36:03 AM
While Dilma simply scurried off (literally; she cancelled every appointment and went straight back to her plane) when the issue of buying our debt came up. Brazil simply cannot afford it - for all it's talk, it is a developing nation, and this is Europe we are talking about.
Haha... :lol:
It's like Dilma visited her ailing grandmother, and someone said "You need to pay to put her in a nursing home."
"Ok."
"That's going to cost $1 million a year."
*door slamming, tires squealing*
:nelson:
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
eh, it's a Catholic country... it'd probably be easier to jail the non-corrupt people. :)
It's got nothing to do with catholicism. We don't have nationalism, so the general ideia is that everyone "is out for him/herself". That means everybody you meet will try to steal from you, one way or another. I myself am already tired that every single taxi I get into tries to scam me in one way or another, or on how my bills are always inflated by 20-30% due to "processing errors" that the companies only get when I complain. Or why it's 40% cheaper to buy stuff from Amazon than it is to get the exact same stuff from the store next door.
Quote from: jimmy olsen
Did anyone actually think that would work long term or were they all just "screw the next generation" while uttering an evil laugh? :huh:
Everybody believes everything will last forever. If not, that the bad things will only happen after we're dead.
Even now, the general atitude of the population is one that "nothing will change" or "how will they steal from us?". Most still have NO idea of the problems the country is facing - and until last week, the only thing our Economists did was to DEMAND the Germans to just GIVE us the money without any conditions, saying we only "need more time" (for what? We had decades and decades and did nothing!).
Needless to say, the general impression the Germans got was that they were talking to "children". Which is the best way to describe the mindset of the average portuguese "responsible" economist/politician.
This is why only whites should have countries.
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
eh, it's a Catholic country... it'd probably be easier to jail the non-corrupt people. :)
It's got nothing to do with catholicism. We don't have nationalism, so the general ideia is that everyone "is out for him/herself". That means everybody you meet will try to steal from you, one way or another. I myself am already tired that every single taxi I get into tries to scam me in one way or another, or on how my bills are always inflated by 20-30% due to "processing errors" that the companies only get when I complain. Or why it's 40% cheaper to buy stuff from Amazon than it is to get the exact same stuff from the store next door.
Quote from: jimmy olsen
Did anyone actually think that would work long term or were they all just "screw the next generation" while uttering an evil laugh? :huh:
Everybody believes everything will last forever. If not, that the bad things will only happen after we're dead.
Even now, the general atitude of the population is one that "nothing will change" or "how will they steal from us?". Most still have NO idea of the problems the country is facing - and until last week, the only thing our Economists did was to DEMAND the Germans to just GIVE us the money without any conditions, saying we only "need more time" (for what? We had decades and decades and did nothing!).
Needless to say, the general impression the Germans got was that they were talking to "children". Which is the best way to describe the mindset of the average portuguese "responsible" economist/politician.
Sheesh, what a mess!! And an infuriating way to do business, buy things, and the norm is to get cheated and over charged. :huh:
Figures though, that the Germans would be looking to "move in". ;)
Quote from: KRonn on April 07, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
Sheesh, what a mess!! And an infuriating way to do business, buy things, and the norm is to get cheated and over charged. :huh:
Another problem is that the Portuguese are lazy.
For example, when Ubik accepted to commercially develop Magna Mundi using Paradox's EU3 engine, he lost about half of his foreign help, who did not want to do things for money.
He then decided to try national labour. Which turned out to be a horror story.
For example, he had a web designer for the Magna Mundi site. When he told her what he wanted, she looked at it weirdly and said it would take a month and a half. He mentioned this to one of his foreign programmers (a Russian), who just said to "leave it to me" and did it all in 15 minutes.
(he sacked the portuguese web designer and raised the wage of the Russian to take care of the site).
He then hired a Portuguese artist to make the conceptual art for Magna Mundi. He told him in November 2009 he needed all the work done by July 2010. The first thing the Portuguese guy did was to take two months' worth of vacations. Come July, he only had 20% of the work done, and asked for more time, saying it was "complicated". He got the boot.
(The opening images, as well as the portrait of a leader and nobles around him that you will see in MM HRE screen are his)
He also found a kid that he thought would be a good programmer when he heard the young one criticize the massive corruption in the portuguese videogame industry (which basically doesn't exist; companies just make some conceptual crap up to get subsidies and never put anything out. We have a company called 'iDreams' that has never produced a single game in the last five years, but has gobbled five million euro worth of subsidies in the meantime).
When hired, the kid proved to be a deadbeat. Ubik had to call him often at 4AM to get him to do any work, and today he is the worse guy in the whole programming team, trailing FAR behind all foreigners.
What happened to the Portuguese who discovered the Azores, Madeira, rounded the Cape, etc.?
Did their descendants all: emigrate to Brazil? :(
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 12:17:21 PM
What happened to the Portuguese who discovered the Azores, Madeira, rounded the Cape, etc.?
Rule of thumb in Portugal: anyone of worth that does something for the country either gets ignored or is punished for it. Only the dirt rises to the surface.
As to your examples:
Tristão Vaz Teixeira, who discovered Madeira, was charged with Abuse of Power and exiled.
Diogo de Silves, who discovered the Azores, was deemed of low station and got no reward.
Bartolomeu Dias, who crossed the Cape, got no recognition and was kept as a mere captain, drowning when his ship went down in a storm in 1500.
The only one that escaped punishment was Afonso de Albuquerque (who conquered our Asian empire almost single-handedly), but that was just because he died of disease before the royal order for his arrest could arrive (it was alread on route when he passed away).
:lol:
No wonder nobody wants to be the party that fixes this.
How about the guy that discovered Tristan da Cunha? Did he get punished?
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 12:51:06 PM
How about the guy that discovered Tristan da Cunha? Did he get punished?
No, he was given a lifetime governorship of the island. :)
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 12:51:06 PM
How about the guy that discovered Tristan da Cunha? Did he get punished?
Inaccessible Island :wub:
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2011, 12:51:06 PM
How about the guy that discovered Tristan da Cunha? Did he get punished?
The guy, oddly called Tristran da Cunha (Tristão da Cunha), was later appointed first ViceRoy of the Indies. But he never got to take over the post, due to... unfortunate circumstances... that led him to become blind.
His son, however, was a shrewd politician, and got the post for himself in 1529.
At least you still got football... well, I don't know if anyone actually watches the Euro League, but still!
They're an eggplant people who don't even speak correct Spanish. Fuck 'em.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 07, 2011, 09:07:17 PM
They're an eggplant people who don't even speak correct Spanish. Fuck 'em.
Hah, for once you got it right!
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 07:41:27 AM
Long before Spain, we have to look at Belgium - 375 billion euro in debt and NO government to control its debt, even after 280 days after the election. If the local politicians don't get their act together, that country will collapse before the end of the year.
Most debt in Belgium is in hands of Belgians. And if Belgium goes down it will not be because of debt. As for governments: we have 6, 5 are still working.
Quote from: Siege on April 07, 2011, 09:17:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 07, 2011, 09:07:17 PM
They're an eggplant people who don't even speak correct Spanish. Fuck 'em.
Hah, for once you got it right!
Do you still speak your ancestral tongue? :smiliewearingsombrero:
Quote from: Liep on April 07, 2011, 04:30:10 PM
At least you still got football... well, I don't know if anyone actually watches the Euro League, but still!
Better watch that than Socrates' posturing.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 08, 2011, 01:16:53 AM
Do you still speak your ancestral tongue? :smiliewearingsombrero:
I'm guessing Ladino, a Spanish derivative spoken by the descendants of exiled Jews.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 07, 2011, 09:07:17 PM
They're an eggplant people who don't even speak correct Spanish. Fuck 'em.
That's ok, we'll just take your tax dollars [part of the US contribution to the IMF loan] and give them away in subsidies so that more eggplants can have nice vacations. :)
In fact, I would like to thank almost all of Languish for having become net donators to Portugal. This is a great system we got going here.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80
Most debt in Belgium is in hands of Belgians. And if Belgium goes down it will not be because of debt. As for governments: we have 6, 5 are still working.
For "working" one means "with the legitimacy to cut the budget", which your current government does not have. Also, your lovely banks ran up debts equal to 340% of your national GDP, are heavily exposed to PIGS debt and your State offers generous bank guarantees.
Unless you cut your debt dramatically to about 4.7% of GDP in the rather short term (very doubtful), the ratings agencies already warned that they'll start cutting your rating. Since Belgium needs to refinance a good chunk of its debt this year and the next, rising rates will wreck the budget in all possible manners.
Current estimates put a Belgian bailout at 175 billion euro - more than Ireland and Portugal combined.
Nice going for such level-headed folks (aka irresponsible bankers and ethnic-clashing loonies)
Actually, IMF loans are a delegated expansion of the international money supply, not funds from member state treasuries. :nerd:
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 08, 2011, 10:06:49 AM
That's ok, we'll just take your tax dollars [part of the US contribution to the IMF loan] and give them away in subsidies so that more eggplants can have nice vacations. :)
In fact, I would like to thank almost all of Languish for having become net donators to Portugal. This is a great system we got going here.
Like I said earlier in this thread, the US will loan you money, borrowed from other people! Maybe even borrowed from Portugal! :D
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 07, 2011, 09:36:03 AM
Germany has already set foot here and said: "Mine!".
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abload.de%2Fimg%2Fdo-not-want-dog2s87.jpg&hash=1489ecd0282bbbf5093d2799fed300f55c75f01a)
So, what you're saying is, in Portugal, I'd be considered industrious. Interesting.
I'd like to offer my services as a cruel despot.
Quote from: KRonn
Like I said earlier in this thread, the US will loan you money, borrowed from other people! Maybe even borrowed from Portugal! :D
Taking into account that 70% of US debt is owned by the Fed, I suspect the US is using money borrowed from itself...
Quote from: Zanza2 on April 08, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abload.de%2Fimg%2Fdo-not-want-dog2s87.jpg&hash=1489ecd0282bbbf5093d2799fed300f55c75f01a)
Odd that you post that. :huh:
Germany has been busting its ass off to help us. German delegations have been here almost nonstop, and we've been going to Germany on a very regular basis. It is accepted by all the German parties (bar the Die Linke and some Greens) that Germany has to take all necessary steps to prevent the break-up of the eurozone, and that no effort should be spared to do so. This especially includes major efforts to make the southern european nations have better governance, something seen by most parties as only being achievable through German overshight [since the European Commission is run by a Portuguese].
Also, one of the most enthusiastic parties about this notion is the FDP, which I believe is the party you vote for [though both the CDU and the SPD also agree]
Quote from: Ideologue
So, what you're saying is, in Portugal, I'd be considered industrious. Interesting.
Quite possibly; that is not hard at all. What is your work ethic? (Honest question. I genuinely don't know)
Less than it ought to be, but enough to get things done.
Do Portuguese really dislike the French? For what? The Napoleonic Wars?
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 08, 2011, 12:08:42 PMIt is accepted by all the German parties (bar the Die Linke and some Greens) that Germany has to take all necessary steps to prevent the break-up of the eurozone, and that no effort should be spared to do so.
Oh, for sure. We are willing to put in whatever amount of blood, toil, sweat and tears of the Portuguese, Greek and Irish it takes to prevent the break-up.
QuoteThis especially includes major efforts to make the southern european nations have better governance, something seen by most parties as only being achievable through German overshight [since the European Commission is run by a Portuguese].
We must make sure that your public continues paying for our private bank bailouts of course. There is nothing the Portuguese have to gain from austerity after all. And the alternative would be to let our own tax payers pay for bank bailouts. If the debt is restructured eventually, which is quite likely, it will be our public that will get shafted anyway. But until that happens, we will milk you for all you've got. And while we are at it, we shall violate your sovereignity and dictate a few new policies.
QuoteAlso, one of the most enthusiastic parties about this notion is the FDP, which I believe is the party you vote for [though both the CDU and the SPD also agree]
The FDP is a joke nowadays and I regret having voted for them in the last federal election. Too bad they are still closest to my political beliefs and there is no more credible party like this.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2011, 10:10:07 AM
Actually, IMF loans are a delegated expansion of the international money supply, not funds from member state treasuries. :nerd:
You'd think he would have picked that up during his casual dinner with the ambassador's private banker.
Read a couple articles today in the FT in which they described Corkistan's Social Democrats as a center-right party, so maybe Martim is not quite as nutty as believed. :hmm:
Quote from: Ideologue on April 08, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
So, what you're saying is, in Portugal, I'd be considered industrious. Interesting.
I'd like to offer my services as a cruel despot.
I've already laid claim to Portugal with Slargos as my Governor-General with my 5 dollar purchase of their eggplant nation.
If Slargos doesn't keep the cork flowing, I'd take your resume.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2011, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on April 08, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
So, what you're saying is, in Portugal, I'd be considered industrious. Interesting.
I'd like to offer my services as a cruel despot.
I've already laid claim to Portugal with Slargos as my Governor-General with my 5 dollar purchase of their eggplant nation.
If Slargos doesn't keep the cork flowing, I'd take your resume.
Presuming the proper funding for the Department of Cultural Correction, I am confident I can keep the unruly natives under control.
A bit of corruption is to be expected, but I could probably keep from making it too obvious. You would see most of the Cork returned to your coffers. :bowler:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2011, 05:28:49 PM
Read a couple articles today in the FT in which they described Corkistan's Social Democrats as a center-right party, so maybe Martim is not quite as nutty as believed. :hmm:
The Portuguese Social Democratic Party *is* a center-right party, the name is, apparently, a historical oddity.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2011, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on April 08, 2011, 11:57:48 AM
So, what you're saying is, in Portugal, I'd be considered industrious. Interesting.
I'd like to offer my services as a cruel despot.
I've already laid claim to Portugal with Slargos as my Governor-General with my 5 dollar purchase of their eggplant nation.
If Slargos doesn't keep the cork flowing, I'd take your resume.
I am comfortable with what the kids are calling "hell columns."
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 08, 2011, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 07, 2011, 09:07:17 PM
They're an eggplant people who don't even speak correct Spanish. Fuck 'em.
That's ok, we'll just take your tax dollars [part of the US contribution to the IMF loan] and give them away in subsidies so that more eggplants can have nice vacations. :)
In fact, I would like to thank almost all of Languish for having become net donators to Portugal. This is a great system we got going here.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80
Most debt in Belgium is in hands of Belgians. And if Belgium goes down it will not be because of debt. As for governments: we have 6, 5 are still working.
For "working" one means "with the legitimacy to cut the budget", which your current government does not have. Also, your lovely banks ran up debts equal to 340% of your national GDP, are heavily exposed to PIGS debt and your State offers generous bank guarantees.
Unless you cut your debt dramatically to about 4.7% of GDP in the rather short term (very doubtful), the ratings agencies already warned that they'll start cutting your rating. Since Belgium needs to refinance a good chunk of its debt this year and the next, rising rates will wreck the budget in all possible manners.
Current estimates put a Belgian bailout at 175 billion euro - more than Ireland and Portugal combined.
Nice going for such level-headed folks (aka irresponsible bankers and ethnic-clashing loonies)
Time to split Belgium between France and the Netherlands.
That would mean war.
Eurotribalists are literally about the most petty people alive.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 08, 2011, 08:10:25 PM
Time to split Belgium between France and the Netherlands.
The British need Belgium for the next time they get in a tiff with Germany or France.
Quote from: Legbiter on April 08, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 08, 2011, 08:10:25 PM
Time to split Belgium between France and the Netherlands.
The British need Belgium for the next time they get in a tiff with Germany or France.
The Germans need Belgium for the next time they need collaborators to point out which attics the Jews are hiding in.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn0.knowyourmeme.com%2Fi%2F000%2F107%2F350%2Foriginal%2F1300569354001.png%3F1300572710&hash=c8e099bb4b6b8a3cb9398ef314d8a976b1c38ec1)
Quote from: Zanza2 on April 09, 2011, 03:43:55 AM
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:lmfao:
Quote from: Martim Silva on April 08, 2011, 10:06:49 AM
For "working" one means "with the legitimacy to cut the budget", which your current government does not have. Also, your lovely banks ran up debts equal to 340% of your national GDP, are heavily exposed to PIGS debt and your State offers generous bank guarantees.
Unless you cut your debt dramatically to about 4.7% of GDP in the rather short term (very doubtful), the ratings agencies already warned that they'll start cutting your rating. Since Belgium needs to refinance a good chunk of its debt this year and the next, rising rates will wreck the budget in all possible manners.
Current estimates put a Belgian bailout at 175 billion euro - more than Ireland and Portugal combined.
Nice going for such level-headed folks (aka irresponsible bankers and ethnic-clashing loonies)
so what.
given that Milquet already said tht she doesn't care if the last big bank of Belgium (KBC) goes down because it's only flemish money I don't see where to problem is.