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So my employer offers to sell shares to the employees. The advantage of that is that you can do it with your gross salary, so you save taxes. Other than that, it is not really cheaper than just buying them normally. I wonder if it makes sense. The tax savings is nice of course. But investing in your own employer is about the worst thing you can do regarding having a diverse, risk-spreading portfolio, right?

I'm the primary shareholder of Jaron. :unsure:

Yes, it's not a good idea to buy your employer's shares without a subsidy of some sort.  That reminds me that I need to look into selling off some of my company's stocks that recently got vested.

My company is not publicly traded. My wife participated in the ESPP at Microsoft for about seven years but no longer does. The last company I worked for that had such a plan was Compaq in the mid-90s. I sold all of my holdings before the HP merger and haven't bought shares of any employer since.

I own 500 shares.

I don't, for obvious reasons  :P

But given the high taxes in Germany, I think that alone will make it a good idea. 

Not a share per say, but I do own a small piece of a former employer.  Half of a finger bone in fact.

I used to at a former employer. Some I had before I joined them, some was given as employee benefits. Made a nice sum when the company was finally sold (long after I left them) since the shares had been given at a discount, but sold (or rather forced into liquidation) at market price plus a mark up.

V

Quote from: Monoriu on April 20, 2010, 01:44:07 AM
I don't, for obvious reasons  :P

But given the high taxes in Germany, I think that alone will make it a good idea. 

I am not sure whether it lowers my gross salary just for taxes or also for social security payroll deductions.
If it is the latter, that would be really sweet as I would be able to buy a couple of shares at about half their price - otherwise I still get them at about 2/3 the price.
But if I calculate it correctly, it only makes sense for a small amount of shares as that gives me the highest amount of savings.  :hmm:

Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 02:07:48 AM
Not a share per say, but I do own a small piece of a former employer.  Half of a finger bone in fact.

In this case the commies are right- "ownership" is theft.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 20, 2010, 02:47:19 AM

Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2010, 02:07:48 AM
Not a share per say, but I do own a small piece of a former employer.  Half of a finger bone in fact.

In this case the commies are right- "ownership" is theft.

Well technically I don't own it.  Legally you can't own any person or piece of a person.  I just have it in my possession. 

I would get some nice subsidy on them if I was living in the right country.  :mad:

Quote from: Tamas on April 20, 2010, 03:28:34 AM
I would get some nice subsidy on them if I was living in the right country.  :mad:

I live in the right country. :yeah: The employees in the foreign subsidiary where I am currently working don't get this offer either, only employees with a German contract.

I think I'll buy them. Getting them at 1/2 or 2/3 the price seems to be a no-brainer. I wonder if there is something I don't see.  :ph34r:

The downside is that I have to keep them until end of 2011 or otherwise the tax incentive is void and I have to pay that.

Quote from: Zanza on April 20, 2010, 03:49:22 AM

Quote from: Tamas on April 20, 2010, 03:28:34 AM
I would get some nice subsidy on them if I was living in the right country.  :mad:

I live in the right country. :yeah: The employees in the foreign subsidiary where I am currently working don't get this offer either, only employees with a German contract.

I think I'll buy them. Getting them at 1/2 or 2/3 the price seems to be a no-brainer. I wonder if there is something I don't see.  :ph34r:

If you are sure that your company will continue to grow then yes its a good thing. I mean, say you can get the stock with 4-5% discount, even if the stock price stagnates you would be at, or ahead, of a savings account. :contract:

This reminds me that I need to enroll in my company's stock purchase program.  Thanks for the thread.  :cool:

No, the incentive isn't big enough compare to the total stagnation of the share price.

Yes.  They give us shares every year as a bonus.  I sell most of them off pretty quickly though.

Quote from: Grey Fox on April 20, 2010, 06:01:54 AM
No, the incentive isn't big enough compare to the total stagnation of the share price.

Yeah, the main reason I want to do it is that I can buy from the company and not pay brokerage fees on buying/selling, and I suspect our stock is due for a major jump in price soon. :shifty:

Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 06:46:58 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on April 20, 2010, 06:01:54 AM
No, the incentive isn't big enough compare to the total stagnation of the share price.

Yeah, the main reason I want to do it is that I can buy from the company and not pay brokerage fees on buying/selling, and I suspect our stock is due for a major jump in price soon. :shifty:

Hello, insider.

Not the brightest move declaring that in an open forum, but I'll forgive you this time.

I don't have any special knowledge of our corporate plans that one couldn't figure out from reading news releases about us.  I just happen to be in a position to put it all together.

Anyway, a) the company has trading blackout periods, and b) if I was steadily buying stock via purchase plan I don't see how anyone can hold that against me.

No, our multi-billion dollar corporation is non-public/private owned and they don't share. We get cash bonus instead.

The boss of my boss is the major shareholder. I am not a shareholder.

Quote from: Zanza on April 20, 2010, 03:49:22 AM
I think I'll buy them. Getting them at 1/2 or 2/3 the price seems to be a no-brainer. I wonder if there is something I don't see.  :ph34r:

The downside is that I have to keep them until end of 2011 or otherwise the tax incentive is void and I have to pay that.

You're right.  It is a no-brainer.  You're doubling (or increasing by 50%) your money as soon as you purchase the stock.  The end of 2011 is not that far in the future.

The only trick is to remember to sell a number (though not all) of your stock once the lock-out ends, or else you do in fact run the serious risk of not diversifying.

And you could say I won a share of my employer, but then again so does every Canadian citizen. :Canuck:

On a related note: Accenture is at a 52 week high.  My sell trigger kicks in once it hits $44.  At that point: $$$ for Cal  :cool:

Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 06:46:58 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on April 20, 2010, 06:01:54 AM
No, the incentive isn't big enough compare to the total stagnation of the share price.

Yeah, the main reason I want to do it is that I can buy from the company and not pay brokerage fees on buying/selling, and I suspect our stock is due for a major jump in price soon. :shifty:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter


:P

Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 01:29:34 PM
On a related note: Accenture is at a 52 week high.  My sell trigger kicks in once it hits $44.  At that point: $$$ for Cal  :cool:

Eww...Accenture was always doing on campus recruiting.

Auditors amuse me.  They're often kids right out of college who seem to know next to nothing.  They usually show up with a senior dude who tries to help them do the initial legwork, but then the senior guy goes away and makes the noobs do all the real work.  I never felt like I needed to trick an external auditor, but it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do.

I do not.  The place I work has a pretty crummy plan.  You deduct after-tax money from every pay check, then you use that at the end of the year to buy stock at the current price minus a 20% discount.  So you're floating the company in effect a six month loan.  Plus any fraction of share's worth of money left over is rolled over to the next year.  Plus it's in the form of an ADR, so you're paying a 1% management fee off the top as long as you own it.

No.  We're owned by a number of multi-nationals who don't share (except with each other) :mellow:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 20, 2010, 05:37:57 PM
I do not.  The place I work has a pretty crummy plan.  You deduct after-tax money from every pay check, then you use that at the end of the year to buy stock at the current price minus a 20% discount.  So you're floating the company in effect a six month loan.  Plus any fraction of share's worth of money left over is rolled over to the next year.  Plus it's in the form of an ADR, so you're paying a 1% management fee off the top as long as you own it.

For some reason I didn't think you were employed. :huh:

Quote from: Caliga on April 20, 2010, 06:14:29 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 20, 2010, 05:37:57 PM
I do not.  The place I work has a pretty crummy plan.  You deduct after-tax money from every pay check, then you use that at the end of the year to buy stock at the current price minus a 20% discount.  So you're floating the company in effect a six month loan.  Plus any fraction of share's worth of money left over is rolled over to the next year.  Plus it's in the form of an ADR, so you're paying a 1% management fee off the top as long as you own it.

For some reason I didn't think you were employed. :huh:

The Yister has been very quiet about his life since he left IMF so many years ago.  I don't recall him saying he was employed before now.

And I thought I typed this before (:unsure:) but Yi that still seems like a decent deal.  It's a guaranteed 20% return on your investment.  As long as you sell as soon as you are able, why not take advantage of that plan?

Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2010, 06:17:48 PM
And I thought I typed this before (:unsure:) but Yi that still seems like a decent deal.  It's a guaranteed 20% return on your investment.  As long as you sell as soon as you are able, why not take advantage of that plan?

In addition to the reasons I already mentioned, I think my expectations of company stock plans have been biased by my buddy at ABC, who gets a 100% match on purchases of GE.

Maybe I'll go back and read the details again, see how soon one can cash out.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 20, 2010, 06:30:13 PM

Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2010, 06:17:48 PM
And I thought I typed this before (:unsure:) but Yi that still seems like a decent deal.  It's a guaranteed 20% return on your investment.  As long as you sell as soon as you are able, why not take advantage of that plan?

In addition to the reasons I already mentioned, I think my expectations of company stock plans have been biased by my buddy at ABC, who gets a 100% match on purchases of GE.

Maybe I'll go back and read the details again, see how soon one can cash out.

Yeah, there are certainly better plans out there.  Zanza's plan sounded better for example.  But there's virtually no investment that gives you a guaranteed 20% return.

For a similar reason I sock every dime I can into my pension plan - with the government more than matching my contributions, it's a no-brainer.