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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM

Title: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM
Alarming, especially with the US navy the smallest it's been in nearly a hundred years.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3db28126-475e-11df-b253-00144feab49a.html
QuoteJapan urges China warships probe

By Mure Dickie in Tokyo and Kathrin Hille

Published: April 14 2010 03:00 | Last updated: April 14 2010 03:00

Japan's defence minister yesterday called for efforts to establish the intentions of an extraordinarily large group of about 10 Chinese warships and submarines that passed through international waters near Okinawa last weekend.

The comments by Toshimi Kitazawa highlight concerns in the Japanese security establishment about China's rapidly growing naval power and its implications for long-standing disputes over maritime territory and resources between east Asia's premier powers.

A Japanese official said the passage of the Chinese naval vessels followed an "extremely dangerous" incident in the East China Sea last week in which a ship-based Chinese helicopter came within 90 metres of a Japanese destroyer. Tokyo had protested about the manoeuvre "through diplomatic channels", the official said.

Mr Kitazawa acknowledged that the Chinese vessels, which included submarines, destroyers and frigates, had remained within international waters but said the "unprecedented" nature of the action needed more investigation.

A defence official said the number of Chinese vessels passing together through the gap between Japan's southern Okinawa and Miyako islands had grown steadily in recent years, from four during one passage in 2008, to five on another occasion in 2009 and six during yet another last month.

"I want to look carefully into whether [the most recent passage] was directed against our nation and then consider how to respond," Mr Kitazawa said.

Many in Japan's defence establishment have long been concerned about increasingly successful efforts of China's People's Liberation Army Navy to transform itself from a weak coastal defence force into a genuine navy.

Japan and China dispute sovereignty over islands in the East China Sea and have overlapping economic claims to its potentially vast gas resources.

In a landmark agreement aimed at easing tensions, Tokyo and Beijing in 2008 agreed to jointly develop gas fields in disputed areas but Japanese officials say their Chinese counterparts have yet to engage seriously in how to implement the agreement.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 04:58:54 AM
Okay, I missed something here because what the article says and your statements don't mesh well.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 14, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 04:58:54 AM
Okay, I missed something here because what the article says and your statements don't mesh well.

Alarming.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 05:05:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 14, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 04:58:54 AM
Okay, I missed something here because what the article says and your statements don't mesh well.

Alarming.

If the Chinese conquered Japan and put them all into labor camps I think it would be an acceptable price to pay to rid the world of anime.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Monoriu on April 14, 2010, 05:10:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM


Japan's defence minister yesterday called for efforts to establish the intentions of an extraordinarily large group of about 10 Chinese warships and submarines that passed through international waters near Okinawa last weekend.

Your own article refutes your thread title :contract:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 14, 2010, 05:10:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM


Japan's defence minister yesterday called for efforts to establish the intentions of an extraordinarily large group of about 10 Chinese warships and submarines that passed through international waters near Okinawa last weekend.

Your own article refutes your thread title :contract:
They were quite close, and next time they'll get a bit closer, and so on.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 14, 2010, 05:21:36 AM
Alarming.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 14, 2010, 05:22:09 AM
Worrying.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Monoriu on April 14, 2010, 05:48:27 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 05:12:08 AM

They were quite close, and next time they'll get a bit closer, and so on.

Yeah, if I punch the air next to you can I be arrested for hitting you, because "I was quite close and next time I'll get a bit closer, and so on."  :lol:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Grey Fox on April 14, 2010, 06:00:42 AM
Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 06:36:51 AM
"China's rapidly growing naval power?"  WTF?  China's surface fleet has been near 70 ships for a decade, and was twice that size twenty years ago.  Submarine force levels have been about the same: about 100 submarines 20 years ago, cut to about 55 modern models ten years ago, and maintained at that level since.  the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB.

Methinks someone is crying wolf, here.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Josquius on April 14, 2010, 06:42:49 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM
Alarming, especially with the US navy the smallest it's been in nearly a hundred years.
:lol:
Sorry, thats just so typical right wing and hawkish.

Smaller than 'overkillx100' just means 'overkillx50'
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 14, 2010, 06:43:48 AM
Japan is traditional Chinese territory, anyway.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Tamas on April 14, 2010, 07:02:45 AM
I know what happened: I bought some Chinese stock. Since that, there was an earthquake in China, and now this.  If CdM agrees to cover my loss, I will buy some more to trigger WW3.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Josephus on April 14, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
A Japo/China war would be cool. Getting tired of Hajjis and Cowboys and Arabs.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 14, 2010, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 14, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
A Japo/China war would be cool. Getting tired of Hajjis and Cowboys and Arabs.

These days it'd be a tard fight. Japan has a decent navy, but it's army is worse than most European armies.
And China has no way of crossing to Japan.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: HVC on April 14, 2010, 07:39:15 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 14, 2010, 05:10:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 04:51:44 AM


Japan's defence minister yesterday called for efforts to establish the intentions of an extraordinarily large group of about 10 Chinese warships and submarines that passed through international waters near Okinawa last weekend.

Your own article refutes your thread title :contract:
They were quite close, and next time they'll get a bit closer, and so on.
OMG the chinese have discovered calculus!
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 06:36:51 AM
"China's rapidly growing naval power?"  WTF?  China's surface fleet has been near 70 ships for a decade, and was twice that size twenty years ago.  Submarine force levels have been about the same: about 100 submarines 20 years ago, cut to about 55 modern models ten years ago, and maintained at that level since.  the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB.

Methinks someone is crying wolf, here.

You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:52:31 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 14, 2010, 07:39:15 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
They were quite close, and next time they'll get a bit closer, and so on.
OMG the chinese have discovered calculus!
:lmfao:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 14, 2010, 07:55:32 AM
Disconcerting.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 08:13:34 AM
Someday we'll look back on this and laugh.  Until then we'll just have to content ourselves at laughing now.  At Tim.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Camerus on April 14, 2010, 08:29:41 AM
Disquieting. 
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Josephus on April 14, 2010, 08:40:26 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 14, 2010, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 14, 2010, 07:09:09 AM
A Japo/China war would be cool. Getting tired of Hajjis and Cowboys and Arabs.

These days it'd be a tard fight. Japan has a decent navy, but it's army is worse than most European armies.
And China has no way of crossing to Japan.

It would be like a Paradox war game then.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: DGuller on April 14, 2010, 08:53:05 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 14, 2010, 07:39:15 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
They were quite close, and next time they'll get a bit closer, and so on.
OMG the chinese have discovered calculus!
:lol:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: DontSayBanana on April 14, 2010, 09:36:07 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 14, 2010, 07:39:15 AM
OMG the chinese have discovered calculus!

Law of diminishing returns: apply x amount of faith to Timmay's ability to post something relevant and coherent, receive y confirmation of said ability, where y<x.  Lather, rinse, repeat. :contract:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.

Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 10:15:37 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.
Agree.  It was the "upon" that threw me.  I now see that it was meant to be "giving up on" and that "in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim" was the phrase describing what they were doing instead.

Just couldn't parse it the first time.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Jacob on April 14, 2010, 10:20:22 AM
Perturbing.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Siege on April 14, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.

Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.

The Chiense fleet will cloesr the japanese watrs?

That sounds worrying.

Do they have hyperdrive tech or do they use stargates?

Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Malthus on April 14, 2010, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 05:05:26 AM
If the Chinese conquered Japan and put them all into labor camps I think it would be an acceptable price to pay to rid the world of anime.

Sadly, the result would probably be more anime, not less. The Hello Kitty(tm) labour camp/slave workshop awaits!
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 14, 2010, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 05:05:26 AM
If the Chinese conquered Japan and put them all into labor camps I think it would be an acceptable price to pay to rid the world of anime.

Sadly, the result would probably be more anime, not less. The Hello Kitty(tm) labour camp/slave workshop awaits!
Hello Kitty Peoples' Liberation Army Navy Political Re-education Factory #12
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 11:49:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 10:15:37 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.
Agree.  It was the "upon" that threw me.  I now see that it was meant to be "giving up on" and that "in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim" was the phrase describing what they were doing instead.

Just couldn't parse it the first time.  :Embarrass:

Siege's comments aside, I do wonder how China has been thinking about the past few years. You have American troops in Afghanistan, bases in Central Asia, troops in South Korea, Taiwan and Japan are US allies, rapproachment with India...

From Beijing's perspective it must look an awful lot like American encirclement.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Lucidor on April 14, 2010, 12:08:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 05:05:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 14, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 04:58:54 AM
Okay, I missed something here because what the article says and your statements don't mesh well.

Alarming.

If the Chinese conquered Japan and put them all into labor camps I think it would be an acceptable price to pay to rid the world of anime.
THAT would qualify as alarming!
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: DisturbedPervert on April 14, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 14, 2010, 06:00:42 AM
Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.

Japan recently launched this aircraft carrier helicopter destroyer

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F36%2FHelicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg%2F300px-Helicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg&hash=20fa109019c46f06cf7683904b7f97914cde1ebe)
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Maximus on April 14, 2010, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 14, 2010, 07:39:15 AM
OMG the chinese have discovered calculus!
:lol:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Siege on April 14, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.

Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.

The Chiense fleet will cloesr the japanese watrs?

That sounds worrying.

Do they have hyperdrive tech or do they use stargates?

You shouldn't be drinking this early in the day.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 01:56:49 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 11:49:51 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 10:15:37 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.
Agree.  It was the "upon" that threw me.  I now see that it was meant to be "giving up on" and that "in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim" was the phrase describing what they were doing instead.

Just couldn't parse it the first time.  :Embarrass:

Siege's comments aside, I do wonder how China has been thinking about the past few years. You have American troops in Afghanistan, bases in Central Asia, troops in South Korea, Taiwan and Japan are US allies, rapproachment with India...

From Beijing's perspective it must look an awful lot like American encirclement.

It's why they signed a military treaty with Russia a few years back and slowly have pressured Central Asian countries to no longer host US troops.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Siege on April 14, 2010, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Siege on April 14, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.

Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.

The Chiense fleet will cloesr the japanese watrs?

That sounds worrying.

Do they have hyperdrive tech or do they use stargates?

You shouldn't be drinking this early in the day.

I wish.

Diet coke is all this soldier has.

Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Agelastus on April 14, 2010, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Siege on April 14, 2010, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Siege on April 14, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 07:43:02 AM
You have to understand, with Obama in office the Chinese are giving upon the economic hegemony that's clearly falling into their lap in favor of knee jerk military operations designed to worry Tim.
:huh:  You lost me.

Eh, I don't see "Chinese warships maneuver in international waters in a quasi-threatening manner" to be a huge headline. I also don't see this as part of a master plan for Chiense warships to move closer and cloesr to Japanese watrs.

The Chiense fleet will cloesr the japanese watrs?

That sounds worrying.

Do they have hyperdrive tech or do they use stargates?

You shouldn't be drinking this early in the day.

I wish.

Diet coke is all this soldier has.

You can get drunk on diet coke!!! :o

That explains why you just confused "holocaust" and "holograph" on another thread.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: PDH on April 14, 2010, 03:44:31 PM
I am applied.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 14, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
Languish in the morning with all the Timmay threads is like reading the Drudge report, only without a flashing siren graphic.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Jaron on April 14, 2010, 04:15:29 PM
Alarming.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on April 14, 2010, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
Languish in the morning with all the Timmay threads is like reading the Drudge report, only without a flashing siren graphic.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F3707%2Femotsirennxpw.gif&hash=0d955b11ef072259b1a1ca308e8d8beb5e95de59)CHINESE INVADE JAPAN!(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F3707%2Femotsirennxpw.gif&hash=0d955b11ef072259b1a1ca308e8d8beb5e95de59)
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 14, 2010, 05:25:05 PM
Great. Now he'll use those in addition to his chronic overuse of the exclamation point.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Warspite on April 14, 2010, 05:29:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2010, 05:25:05 PM
Great. Now he'll use those in addition to his chronic overuse of the exclamation point.

Appalling.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Habbaku on April 14, 2010, 05:50:19 PM
Ashaming!
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Neil on April 14, 2010, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 14, 2010, 11:49:51 AM
Siege's comments aside, I do wonder how China has been thinking about the past few years. You have American troops in Afghanistan, bases in Central Asia, troops in South Korea, Taiwan and Japan are US allies, rapproachment with India...

From Beijing's perspective it must look an awful lot like American encirclement.
China must surely be happy to know that they could 'liberate' SE Asia the way they did Tibet.  Nobody there is allied to the US.

That said, I'm not sure how important encirclement is in a modern security setting.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Neil on April 14, 2010, 06:35:03 PM
Japan must embark on a program of dreadnought construction.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 14, 2010, 06:36:06 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 14, 2010, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 14, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
Languish in the morning with all the Timmay threads is like reading the Drudge report, only without a flashing siren graphic.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F3707%2Femotsirennxpw.gif&hash=0d955b11ef072259b1a1ca308e8d8beb5e95de59)CHINESE INVADE JAPAN!(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F3707%2Femotsirennxpw.gif&hash=0d955b11ef072259b1a1ca308e8d8beb5e95de59)
Saved.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 14, 2010, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 14, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 14, 2010, 06:00:42 AM
Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.

Japan recently launched this aircraft carrier helicopter destroyer

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F36%2FHelicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg%2F300px-Helicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg&hash=20fa109019c46f06cf7683904b7f97914cde1ebe)

Everyone and their dog has those things now, or similar.
South Korea's Dokdo, technically an amphibious assault ship, but it can carry helos and possibly F-35s:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv66%2FEricDerKonig%2FSHIP_LPH_ROKS_Dokdo_Frontal_lg.jpg&hash=19cf9e2102ff1c8130e6b712d27e94ef89a5f460)
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Neil on April 14, 2010, 07:18:01 PM
It doesn't make sense for Japan to build carriers.  Dreadnoughts are much more sensible.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2010, 07:18:01 PM
It doesn't make sense for Japan to build carriers.  Dreadnoughts are much more sensible.

Indeed.  There's always the off chance they'll get sucked 100 years into the past and become English.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Neil on April 14, 2010, 07:51:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2010, 07:18:01 PM
It doesn't make sense for Japan to build carriers.  Dreadnoughts are much more sensible.
Indeed.  There's always the off chance they'll get sucked 100 years into the past and become English.
No there isn't.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
Then I guess dreadnoughts aren't very sensible after all.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Neil on April 14, 2010, 08:02:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
Then I guess dreadnoughts aren't very sensible after all.
Leave naval strategy to me.  You can't handle the truth.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 09:10:30 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F488%2Falarming01.jpg&hash=3a36eff5fc0207d14422bdbcb50d4c1c90482bea) (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/alarming01.jpg/)


Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 09:11:20 PM
I just wanted to get in on the whole alarming thing. :(
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 15, 2010, 02:26:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2010, 09:11:20 PM
I just wanted to get in on the whole alarming thing. :(

You too?

There is a disturbing trend here  :hmm:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 15, 2010, 02:35:03 AM
Quite worrisome indeed.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM
You know what? I am sick of this book-cooking slimey mofos we call the Chinese. How fucking happy I was to get some good money out of the stock market rally of recent days, then I bet on one of THEM, and they stall their earnings report for like the second time.

Evacuate Mono then let the nukes fly. :ultra:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Martinus on April 15, 2010, 09:26:45 AM
OMG. Earthquakes in China. Volcanos in Iceland. China and Venezuela prepare for war.

The Polish government dies and all the hell suddenly breaks loose!
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 09:31:37 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM
You know what? I am sick of this book-cooking slimey mofos we call the Chinese. How fucking happy I was to get some good money out of the stock market rally of recent days, then I bet on one of THEM, and they stall their earnings report for like the second time.

Evacuate Mono then let the nukes fly. :ultra:

I guess we learned not to invest in Chink stocks, haven't we?
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 09:31:37 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM
You know what? I am sick of this book-cooking slimey mofos we call the Chinese. How fucking happy I was to get some good money out of the stock market rally of recent days, then I bet on one of THEM, and they stall their earnings report for like the second time.

Evacuate Mono then let the nukes fly. :ultra:

I guess we learned not to invest in Chink stocks, haven't we?

We did :cry:
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
You'd done better with Palm, since it was a pretty good bet somebody is going to pick them off eventually in a takeover.*

*I does not hold itself out as providing any legal, financial or other advice. I also do not make any recommendation or endorsement as to any investment, advisor or other service or product or to any material submitted by third parties or linked to this website. In addition,I do not offer any advice regarding the nature, potential value or suitability of any particular investment, security or investment strategy.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 03:25:08 PM
Considering that on the Chinese stock I crashed and burned like a Marty love affair in its 7th hour, its safe to say I would have been better off with a soon-to-be-tanking mobile company, yes.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Jacob on April 15, 2010, 03:25:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 10:04:38 AMWe did :cry:

A good lesson.  I'm pretty pro China, especially compared to you lot, but I'd never invest in Chinese stocks.

The only way I'd consider investing in China is if I know someone there I trust who's about to start a business that's convincing.  I wouldn't invest in stocks at all.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Barrister on April 15, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
You'd done better with Palm, since it was a pretty good bet somebody is going to pick them off eventually in a takeover.*

*I does not hold itself out as providing any legal, financial or other advice. I also do not make any recommendation or endorsement as to any investment, advisor or other service or product or to any material submitted by third parties or linked to this website. In addition,I do not offer any advice regarding the nature, potential value or suitability of any particular investment, security or investment strategy.

Terrible advice Ed.  While someone will probably buy out Palm eventually, it'll only be for the value of their patent portfolio.  The stock still has a long ways it could fall.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: ulmont on April 15, 2010, 03:30:11 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 15, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Terrible advice Ed.  While someone will probably buy out Palm eventually, it'll only be for the value of their patent portfolio.  The stock still has a long ways it could fall.

If Palm's patent portfolio had significant value, you'd think they would have been asserting it like hell already...
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 05:07:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 15, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
You'd done better with Palm, since it was a pretty good bet somebody is going to pick them off eventually in a takeover.*

*I does not hold itself out as providing any legal, financial or other advice. I also do not make any recommendation or endorsement as to any investment, advisor or other service or product or to any material submitted by third parties or linked to this website. In addition,I do not offer any advice regarding the nature, potential value or suitability of any particular investment, security or investment strategy.

Terrible advice Ed.  While someone will probably buy out Palm eventually, it'll only be for the value of their patent portfolio.  The stock still has a long ways it could fall.

I'm up over a dollar so far. YOUR ANALYSIS SUCKS.

And I wasn't giving advice. Read the goddamn disclaimer.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Barrister on April 15, 2010, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 05:07:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 15, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
You'd done better with Palm, since it was a pretty good bet somebody is going to pick them off eventually in a takeover.*

*I does not hold itself out as providing any legal, financial or other advice. I also do not make any recommendation or endorsement as to any investment, advisor or other service or product or to any material submitted by third parties or linked to this website. In addition,I do not offer any advice regarding the nature, potential value or suitability of any particular investment, security or investment strategy.

Terrible advice Ed.  While someone will probably buy out Palm eventually, it'll only be for the value of their patent portfolio.  The stock still has a long ways it could fall.

I'm up over a dollar so far. YOUR ANALYSIS SUCKS.

And some people made money on Bre-X and Enron too.

Doesn't make it a good investment.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Tamas on April 16, 2010, 03:51:34 AM
Do not worry, I am not touching Palm, and I advise everyone against it, unless they have money to play with :P
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2010, 05:47:42 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM
Evacuate Mono then let the nukes fly. :ultra:

Isn't that being a little bit excessive?  Evacuating Mono, that is.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Ed Anger on April 16, 2010, 09:02:58 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 15, 2010, 03:25:08 PM
Considering that on the Chinese stock I crashed and burned like a Marty love affair in its 7th hour, its safe to say I would have been better off with a soon-to-be-tanking mobile company, yes.

:lol:

I'm not keeping most of Palm anyways, once I see what it does today.  :)
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 16, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 14, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 14, 2010, 06:00:42 AM
Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.

Japan recently launched this aircraft carrier helicopter destroyer

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F36%2FHelicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg%2F300px-Helicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg&hash=20fa109019c46f06cf7683904b7f97914cde1ebe)
They've got another one in construction and a third that's like 1/3rd bigger on the drawing board.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 16, 2010, 09:43:07 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 16, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 14, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 14, 2010, 06:00:42 AM
Alright. I guess Japan needs to build more boats then.

Japan recently launched this aircraft carrier helicopter destroyer

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F36%2FHelicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg%2F300px-Helicopter_carrier_Hy%25C5%25ABga_%252816DDH%2529.jpg&hash=20fa109019c46f06cf7683904b7f97914cde1ebe)
They've got another one in construction and a third that's like 1/3rd bigger on the drawing board.

They've also got a good song-and-dance routine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjAXJaFydwM&feature=related). And lots of seamen.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 16, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2010, 06:36:51 AM
"China's rapidly growing naval power?"  WTF?  China's surface fleet has been near 70 ships for a decade, and was twice that size twenty years ago.  Submarine force levels have been about the same: about 100 submarines 20 years ago, cut to about 55 modern models ten years ago, and maintained at that level since.  the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB.

Methinks someone is crying wolf, here.

Hull counts are staying the same, but capabilities are increasing.  The Chinese have a strong AAW capability now, are close to commissioning their first aircraft carrier, and have demonstrated an ability to project power well outside east Asia.  That's a rapid growth from where they were 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 16, 2010, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 16, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
Hull counts are staying the same, but capabilities are increasing.  The Chinese have a strong AAW capability now, are close to commissioning their first aircraft carrier, and have demonstrated an ability to project power well outside east Asia.  That's a rapid growth from where they were 20 years ago.
The Chinese are modernizing, like everybody else.  What is surprising is that they really are not increasing relative capabilities.  They are a status quo power.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 17, 2010, 06:40:22 AM
It's their development in diesel boat modernization as well as SSMs and ASMs that concerns me about China.  They still can't do shit over the horizon from the beach.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 17, 2010, 08:20:16 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2010, 08:21:51 PM
The Chinese are modernizing, like everybody else.  What is surprising is that they really are not increasing relative capabilities.  They are a status quo power.

I get the impression, mainly from Proceedings articles on China, that some people are surprised China was able to pull off a modernization like this at all and that the relative gap hasn't grown larger.

The Chinese appear to be running into a learning curve in building and maintaining a modern navy.  Their modern destroyers and frigates have each gone through several iterations, and they have not yet built more than four ships of the same iteration.  I suspect the Chinese still have some architecture and systems integration issues with their modern designs.

By the way, where did your number for Chinese nuke boats come from?  My understanding is they only have 5 SSNs, with no current plans to build more of the Shang class boats or build a follow-on class in the near future.  I can only get your numbers if I add the boomers.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Palisadoes on April 17, 2010, 09:39:34 AM
Well that's it really... they might be able to put out some new ships, but it takes time to get good designs, not to mention getting the doctrines and training all set out right. It'll be a few years before China has an effective fleet.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Razgovory on April 17, 2010, 10:58:39 PM
Maybe they don't want a fleet.  Perhaps they see it as unnecessarily belligerent.  Besides if they had a big fleet sooner or later someone will ask them to do something with it.  Like chase down pirates or something.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: grumbler on April 18, 2010, 07:24:27 AM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 17, 2010, 08:20:16 AM
By the way, where did your number for Chinese nuke boats come from?  My understanding is they only have 5 SSNs, with no current plans to build more of the Shang class boats or build a follow-on class in the near future.  I can only get your numbers if I add the boomers.
Yes, the Chinese are building nuclear boomers.
Title: Re: Chinese Warships Encroach on Japanese Territorial Waters
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 18, 2010, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 18, 2010, 07:24:27 AM
Yes, the Chinese are building nuclear boomers.

I know, but where I got confused in your statement is you said, "the force is expected to grow to 10 or 12 nukes over time, but those nukes will likely replace diesel boats in the OOB."  The Jin class boats are not replacing diesel boats.