Languish.org

So, what grade does Obama get for his recent trip?

Pros:
Everyone loved him.
He didn't throw up on anyone.
Euro media adores him
Everyone really, really, REALLY likes the new, accommodating, go along and get along American president.

Cons
Russia played him
Western European leaders roundly ignored his requests that they spend more stimulus money
No new troops for Afghanistan to speak of
He genuflected to the Saudis (this could go in the Pro category, depending on your perspective)

I am going to give him a B-. Could have been worse - he could have been ineffective AND unpopular.

Didn't vote.  This poll doesn't have an "A+" option.

Quote from: Berkut on April 09, 2009, 10:15:22 AM
Western European leaders roundly ignored his requests that they spend more stimulus money

Didn't they agree to inject another 1,100 billion dollars?

Otherwise, I give him a B. He's still got some flaws (like not being European :p) but he did good.

Kevin

Well, not everyone loved him.  A Guardian writer had this take on Our Dear Community Organizer when he was stuck trying to speak without a teleprompter:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/g20-barack-obama-nick-robinson-question

Quote

The question that flummoxed the great orator

    * John Crace
      o The Guardian, Friday 3 April 2009


Barack Obama, the World's Greatest Orator (™all news organisations), didn't exactly cover himself in glory when the BBC's political editor Nick Robinson asked him a question about who was to blame for the financial crisis. Normally word perfect, Obama ummed, ahed and waffled for the best part of two and a half minutes. Here, John Crace decodes what he was really thinking ...

Nick Robinson: "A question for you both, if I may. The prime minister has repeatedly blamed the United States of America for causing this crisis. France and Germany both blame Britain and America for causing this crisis. Who is right? And isn't the debate about that at the heart of the debate about what to do now?"

Brown immediately swivels to leave Obama in pole position. There is a four-second delay before Obama starts speaking [THANKS FOR NOTHING, GORDY BABY. REMIND ME TO HANG YOU OUT TO DRY ONE DAY.] Barack Obama: "I, I, would say that, er ... pause [I HAVEN'T A CLUE] ... if you look at ... pause [WHO IS THIS NICK ROBINSON JERK?] ... the, the sources of this crisis ... pause [JUST KEEP GOING, BUDDY] ... the United States certainly has some accounting to do with respect to . . . pause [I'M IN WAY TOO DEEP HERE] ... a regulatory system that was inadequate to the massive changes that have taken place in the global financial system ... pause, close eyes [THIS IS GOING TO GO DOWN LIKE A CROCK OF SHIT BACK HOME. HELP]. I think what is also true is that ... pause [I WANT NICK ROBINSON TO DISAPPEAR] ... here in Great Britain ... pause [SHIT, GORDY'S THE HOST, DON'T LAND HIM IN IT] ... here in continental Europe ... pause [DAMN IT, BLAME EVERYONE.] ... around the world. We were seeing the same mismatch between the regulatory regimes that were in place and er ... pause [I'VE LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT AGAIN] ... the highly integrated, er, global capital markets that have emerged ... pause [I'M REALLY WINGING IT NOW]. So at this point, I'm less interested in ... pause [YOU] ... identifying blame than fixing the problem. I think we've taken some very aggressive steps in the United States to do so, not just responding to the immediate crisis, ensuring banks are adequately capitalised, er, dealing with the enormous, er ... pause [WHY DIDN'T I QUIT WHILE I WAS AHEAD?] ... drop-off in demand and contraction that has taken place. More importantly, for the long term, making sure that we've got a set of, er, er, regulations that are up to the task, er, and that includes, er, a number that will be discussed at this summit. I think there's a lot of convergence between all the parties involved about the need, for example, to focus not on the legal form that a particular financial product takes or the institution it emerges from, but rather what's the risk involved, what's the function of this product and how do we regulate that adequately, much more effective coordination, er, between countries so we can, er, anticipate the risks that are involved there. Dealing with the, er, problem of derivatives markets, making sure we have set up systems, er, that can reduce some of the risks there. So, I actually think ... pause [FANTASTIC. I'VE LOST EVERYONE, INCLUDING MYSELF] ... there's enormous consensus that has emerged in terms of what we need to do now and, er ... pause [I'M OUTTA HERE. TIME FOR THE USUAL CLOSING BOLLOCKS] ... I'm a great believer in looking forwards than looking backwards.

edit: original link is a lot easier to read.

In what way did Russia "play" him?  Has he handed them something of value?

Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2009, 10:33:32 AM
In what way did Russia "play" him?  Has he handed them something of value?

Our dignity and the sovereignty of Poland and the Czech Republic.  :menace:

Automatic "F" because he failed to fill in his Scantron form correctly.

Berkut must be masochistic: he votes for the man then spend time every day to find faults with the man.  :lol:




G.

Quote from: derspiess on April 09, 2009, 10:29:08 AM[I'M OUTTA HERE. TIME FOR THE USUAL CLOSING BOLLOCKS] ... I'm a great believer in looking forwards than looking backwards.

"We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkodos.sourceforge.net%2Fimages%2Fkodos.png&hash=8873c502d1ec471f0de9bdd4aa5f26f010a8c3c5)

Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2009, 10:33:32 AM
In what way did Russia "play" him?  Has he handed them something of value?

Nope.  Nope.

It was a meet and greet session, he did that very well.  A-.

I don't really get the question about the financial crisis being America's fault.

Quote from: Grallon on April 09, 2009, 10:46:40 AM
Berkut must be masochistic: he votes for the man then spend time every day to find faults with the man.  :lol:

G.

Hey, I never claimed that I thought he was going to be awesome.

And besides, what fun is there in the uncritical hero worship of political leaders? We should be critical and questioning.

And anyway, I gave him a B - what more do you want?

The foreigners seem to be happy.  I give him an A-.  Heck it even made the world markets break out of their slump for a few seconds.

Anyway the President should only go abroad to shake hands and kiss babies.  It is like Saladin said, Kings only meet once they are ready to sign the treaty.  The heavy lifting is supposed to be done by Hillary and Co.

What...wait... Obama went overseas.... again!? When is he ever here, doing his job? Only two months and the guy is gallivanting around the world!c Sheesh... He obviously needs a ranch in Texas or something.

;)

Quote from: Valmy on April 09, 2009, 11:03:41 AM
The foreigners seem to be happy.  I give him an A-.  Heck it even made the world markets break out of their slump for a few seconds.

Anyway the President should only go abroad to shake hands and kiss babies.  It is like Saladin said, Kings only meet once they are ready to sign the treaty.  The heavy lifting is supposed to be done by Hillary and Co.

While I agree with the bold bit, I do think that our President should be more than just a figurehead.

Quote from: Berkut on April 09, 2009, 10:55:35 AM

And besides, what fun is there in the uncritical hero worship of political leaders? We should be critical and questioning.

I don't hero worship him.  It just seem every day there's a new thread about something else he should be criticized about.  That's a little too nose-on-the-ground (or the screen) evaluation for my taste.  The effects of many of the things he's doing (or attempting) won't become apparent for some time; despite everybody expecting instantaneous results and gratification.  One doesn't clean up years of mess overnight...



G.

Yeah, because people were exercising such restraint in their criticism of Bush...

Quote from: garbon on April 09, 2009, 11:33:37 AM
Yeah, because people were exercising such restraint in their criticism of Bush...

Well that was different.  Bush equaled Hitler.

Quote from: garbon on April 09, 2009, 11:33:37 AM
Yeah, because people were exercising such restraint in their criticism of Bush...

Considering Bush's legacy - which was apparent in 2004 when a majority of you people voted him in a second time - it was *quite* warranted.

Obama's 100 days aren't even finished yet...




G.

Quote from: Grallon on April 09, 2009, 11:42:58 AM
Considering Bush's legacy - which was apparent in 2004 when a majority of you people voted him in a second time - it was *quite* warranted.

Obama's 100 days aren't even finished yet...

G.

:lol:

Always stay so objective, boo. :hug:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 09, 2009, 10:49:44 AM
I don't really get the question about the financial crisis being America's fault.

Gordon Brown regularly blames the crisis on America when he's at home.  The British press wanted to embarass him a little :lol:

I think a B.  In terms of style he did very well on the whole trip, not a foot wrong or a cock-up or a gaffe which over about a week and six different countries is very good.

For the G20 alone I think he did well.  He helped broker the deal, but didn't get everything he wanted - though he never was going to.

Who is this Obama person?

Better than adequate but hardly outstanding, a B seems fair.

Not awful, not great, gave him a C.

Too much kowtowing to the KGB.  C.

The Euros love him.  That's a bad sign.  On the other hand, I can't see that he screwed up anything substantial.  C.

Quote from: Grallon on April 09, 2009, 11:31:44 AM

Quote from: Berkut on April 09, 2009, 10:55:35 AM

And besides, what fun is there in the uncritical hero worship of political leaders? We should be critical and questioning.

I don't hero worship him.  It just seem every day there's a new thread about something else he should be criticized about.  That's a little too nose-on-the-ground (or the screen) evaluation for my taste.  The effects of many of the things he's doing (or attempting) won't become apparent for some time; despite everybody expecting instantaneous results and gratification.  One doesn't clean up years of mess overnight...



G.

I agree. 

I'd say he did well from a PR aspect.  :frog:

A

I think he was your best international representative in the last half century. ride the pony.

Quote from: dps on April 09, 2009, 10:20:50 PM
The Euros love him.  That's a bad sign.  On the other hand, I can't see that he screwed up anything substantial.  C.

What is with conservatives and that anyway?  It it some remnant of isolationism?

Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2009, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: dps on April 09, 2009, 10:20:50 PM
The Euros love him.  That's a bad sign.  On the other hand, I can't see that he screwed up anything substantial.  C.

What is with conservatives and that anyway?  It it some remnant of isolationism?

They(conservatives) look at Europe and see EPIC FAIL.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: citizen k on April 09, 2009, 11:44:48 PM

Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2009, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: dps on April 09, 2009, 10:20:50 PM
The Euros love him.  That's a bad sign.  On the other hand, I can't see that he screwed up anything substantial.  C.

What is with conservatives and that anyway?  It it some remnant of isolationism?

They(conservatives) look at Europe and see EPIC FAIL.  :rolleyes:

Easy to saying hanging out of your trailer half drunk.

C. Nothing great, nothing bad, but a pass.

Quote from: dps on April 09, 2009, 10:20:50 PM
The Euros love him.  That's a bad sign.  On the other hand, I can't see that he screwed up anything substantial.  C.

After the nonsense he spouted about turkey being a bridge between the civilised world and the islamic world (Turkey is part of the islamic world, not a bridge) and Turkey becoming a part of the EU he'll be a lot less popular.

He went around sucking up the euro-love by bashing america and playing to their prejudice.  This helps Obama, but I ail to see how this helps America.  In the end he surrendered on all fronts in order to be liked and came home emptyhanded, only succeeding in convincing the world that he's a weak pushover.

Quote from: saskganesh on April 09, 2009, 10:30:15 PM
A

I think he was your best international representative in the last half century. ride the pony.

Nixon was far better.  Come to think of it, Reagan probably was too.  Look at how well-liked Reagan was around the world.

Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2009, 11:36:16 PM
What is with conservatives and that anyway?  It it some remnant of isolationism?

Well, Euros seem to hate anything right of the U.S. political left so you can see why we're not exactly sending love back that way.

Plus, Europe is our competitor in many ways, and would generally like to see the U.S. diminished on the world stage.

Quote from: derspiess on April 10, 2009, 09:53:03 AMPlus, Europe is our competitor in many ways, and would generally like to see the U.S. diminished on the world stage.

Damn if the Euros are our rivals who exactly are our friends?  With that perspective it seems one must regard every single foreign nation as an enemy or rival.

Conservatives don't like Euroes (in the political sense) simply because Euroland is very socially and economically liberal.

It isn't that complicated. They don't like them for the same reason the hard left socialist types like DG and Raz don't like conservatives.

Quote from: vinraith on April 09, 2009, 12:44:37 PM
Better than adequate but hardly outstanding, a B seems fair.

Agree, though I wish there was a B+/A- option.

I just return the hate.

Quote from: Valmy on April 10, 2009, 09:55:45 AM
Damn if the Euros are our rivals who exactly are our friends?  With that perspective it seems one must regard every single foreign nation as an enemy or rival.

Now you're gettin' it, boy-o :)

Quote from: Berkut on April 10, 2009, 10:01:01 AM
Conservatives don't like Euroes (in the political sense) simply because Euroland is very socially and economically liberal.

I don't think that's quite it.  There may be a certain low level of disdain on those grounds, but that's not *the* reason.