Scam is really simple. Scammer buys a waiter/waitress uniform, and goes to a really big and busy restaurant that is extremely short-staffed during peak hours. As the restaurant is very busy, a lot of customers do not wait to see the bill before they take out their credit cards. Customers literally grab any waiter they can see and stuff their credit cards into their hands. Scammer takes credit card, leaves the restaurant, takes off the uniform and immediately goes shopping with it. It takes a while for the customer and the restaurant to figure out what's going on.
How long can it take someone to realize their credit card isn't coming back? A few minutes?
Anyone that falls for that does that deserves to buy a felon an HDTV. :lmfao:
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 23, 2010, 08:48:35 PM
How long can it take someone to realize their credit card isn't coming back? A few minutes?
Remember, we're talking about an extremely busy restaurant, one in which there could be one waiter for 10-20 tables. It can take 5-10 minutes for you to get hold of any waiter. Then you need to ask him to find out why the credit card isn't coming back. The waiter first needs to serve food at 3 tables, take orders at 2 more, give more chopsticks to another, before he has time to talk to his cashier to find out what's going on. When the cashier tells him she has never seen the card, the waiter has to talk to his manager. The manager is himself very busy serving food. And when he has time to listen to the waiters' story, he has to verify it by talking to the customer and cashier and other staff. Add all this time up, it may be up to half an hour before the customer realizes that his credit card has been stolen. It takes like 10 minutes for a thief to buy jewelry and max out the card.
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 08:54:06 PM
Anyone that falls for that does that deserves to buy a felon an HDTV. :lmfao:
Why? I can easily see myself falling for that. You see a uniformed waiter, you give him your credit card to settle the bill. It is a perfectly natural thing to do.
Anyone who eats at a restaurant where one server is working 10-20 tables is at fault as well, IMO.
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:25:56 PM
Anyone who eats at a restaurant where one server is working 10-20 tables is at fault as well, IMO.
That's the norm here. In the majority of Chinese restaurants, waiters do not serve designated tables. All waiters roam the whole place and serve whoever raises their hand. I often meet 5-6 different waiters in a single meal. Staff turnover is also extremely high, so I see new faces all the time even if I go to the same place.
I didn't see your response before I made my last one Mono. :)
I am curious to see responses from other people who live in large cities. I worked in the restaurant business for most of my teens and 20's; I also try to avoid any restaurant/bar that could ever be as busy as you are talking about.
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I didn't see your response before I made my last one Mono. :)
I am curious to see responses from other people who live in large cities. I worked in the restaurant business for most of my teens and 20's; I also try to avoid any restaurant/bar that could ever be as busy as you are talking about.
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
Ditto this. It's extremely unusual to have a table "belong" to more than one waiter where I live. Not only do they not share tables, but they protect the ones they have. Especially if they suspect or know the customer will tip well. Some of the places I go somewhat regularly, the waitresses know me, actually. Ok, I have to admit more bartenders know me than waitresses, but hey. :lol:
How is this a scam? It sounds more like outright theft.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 23, 2010, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I didn't see your response before I made my last one Mono. :)
I am curious to see responses from other people who live in large cities. I worked in the restaurant business for most of my teens and 20's; I also try to avoid any restaurant/bar that could ever be as busy as you are talking about.
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
Ditto this. It's extremely unusual to have a table "belong" to more than one waiter where I live. Not only do they not share tables, but they protect the ones they have. Especially if they suspect or know the customer will tip well. Some of the places I go somewhat regularly, the waitresses know me, actually. Ok, I have to admit more bartenders know me than waitresses, but hey. :lol:
Hell yeah, things can get ugly in the kitchen if someone tries to "move on" on one of my tables, especially if I knew they were a good tipper.
I assume that HK/China is not a "tipping" country.
Not that that would matter to Mono. ;)
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I didn't see your response before I made my last one Mono. :)
I am curious to see responses from other people who live in large cities. I worked in the restaurant business for most of my teens and 20's; I also try to avoid any restaurant/bar that could ever be as busy as you are talking about.
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
90% of the time, I'll see the bill before I give my credit card. On average, in every 10 bills, I spot mistakes in 1-2 of them. Whenever a restaurant makes a billing mistake, I can be 100% certain that the amount will be inflated.
But sometimes I need to change tactic. Sometimes, the restaurant is so busy that the waiting staff are literally running around. AND I absolutely need to leave within 5 minutes to get back to the office in time. AND I only ordered 1 item, so the chance of them screwing up my bill is tiny. So I give them the credit card before I see the bill to save time, otherwise they need to get back to me twice.
Unless you're talking about high end ones, service is not emphasized in Chinese restaurants. They focus on low price, good food, and high table turnovers. The low price part is partly achieved by cutting the number of waiting staff to the minimum.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 23, 2010, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I didn't see your response before I made my last one Mono. :)
I am curious to see responses from other people who live in large cities. I worked in the restaurant business for most of my teens and 20's; I also try to avoid any restaurant/bar that could ever be as busy as you are talking about.
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
Ditto this. It's extremely unusual to have a table "belong" to more than one waiter where I live. Not only do they not share tables, but they protect the ones they have. Especially if they suspect or know the customer will tip well. Some of the places I go somewhat regularly, the waitresses know me, actually. Ok, I have to admit more bartenders know me than waitresses, but hey. :lol:
There is no tipping culture in HK/China. In HK, every restaurant states in the menu that they'll add 10% to the bill for service. All waiting staff work for hourly wages or monthly salaries.
Sounds like an urban legend, not something I would worry about even if one dude pulled it off
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 24, 2010, 01:20:27 AM
Sounds like an urban legend, not something I would worry about even if one dude pulled it off
HK police just confirmed the cases.
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 01:44:41 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 24, 2010, 01:20:27 AM
Sounds like an urban legend, not something I would worry about even if one dude pulled it off
HK police just confirmed the cases.
How many cases?
Quote from: sbr on March 24, 2010, 01:52:08 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 01:44:41 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 24, 2010, 01:20:27 AM
Sounds like an urban legend, not something I would worry about even if one dude pulled it off
HK police just confirmed the cases.
How many cases?
At least 2, more are under investigation.
Both cases happened in the same restaurant chain. It is well known for not having enough staff. I am a regular customer of the chain and I often see not a single staff in a grand hall of 50 tables :lol:
Not so much a scam as fancy dress stealing.
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
Quote from: Monoriu on March 23, 2010, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on March 23, 2010, 08:48:35 PM
How long can it take someone to realize their credit card isn't coming back? A few minutes?
Remember, we're talking about an extremely busy restaurant, one in which there could be one waiter for 10-20 tables. It can take 5-10 minutes for you to get hold of any waiter. Then you need to ask him to find out why the credit card isn't coming back. The waiter first needs to serve food at 3 tables, take orders at 2 more, give more chopsticks to another, before he has time to talk to his cashier to find out what's going on. When the cashier tells him she has never seen the card, the waiter has to talk to his manager. The manager is himself very busy serving food. And when he has time to listen to the waiters' story, he has to verify it by talking to the customer and cashier and other staff. Add all this time up, it may be up to half an hour before the customer realizes that his credit card has been stolen. It takes like 10 minutes for a thief to buy jewelry and max out the card.
Err... anyone who lets a waiter get his credit card and go with it alone to the backroom or whatever deserves to have the hell scammed out of them.
Besides, I'm surprised Hong Kong is so backwards - pretty much every credit card accepting restaurant in Poland these days has mobile terminals, so the waiter comes with it to your table and you pay with the card there. And if it doesn't, you always accompany them to wherever the terminal is.
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
yup, same in Poland.
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
We still sign our names on carbon copies.
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
We still sign our names on carbon copies.
But what about mobile terminals?
I mean I know all you chinks look alike to me, but ffs when you guys can't even tell the difference...
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2010, 05:42:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
We still sign our names on carbon copies.
But what about mobile terminals?
Never heard of them. Never seen one.
They don't have chip and PIN in half the world yet Mart. Despite having used credit cards in Hong Kong, mainland China and a lot of New Europe, the only place abroad I've had my credit card abused is the good old US of A :bleeding:
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:44:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2010, 05:42:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
We still sign our names on carbon copies.
But what about mobile terminals?
Never heard of them. Never seen one.
Carbon copies? :lmfao:
I think we stopped using those in the 80ies.
Quote from: Brazen on March 24, 2010, 05:57:09 AM
They don't have chip and PIN in half the world yet Mart. Despite having used credit cards in Hong Kong, mainland China and a lot of New Europe, the only place abroad I've had my credit card abused is the good old US of A :bleeding:
Well, in Poland credit cards still are "classic" ones. Only the debit cards and "payment cards" (i.e. the ones that do not create a credit to be repaid, but rather go directly to your savings account and take money from there) have chips and/or use PIN. Fortunately, most places let you pay with the latter too (it used to be only credit cards some time ago). Still, mobile terminals are pretty widespread.
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:44:01 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2010, 05:42:52 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2010, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Valdemar on March 24, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Wouldn't happen here anymore, credit cards are payments are done by the table with a remote device, plus PIN protected cards are the norm, not signatured ones.
V
We still sign our names on carbon copies.
But what about mobile terminals?
Never heard of them. Never seen one.
Mobile terminals look like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wirelessvisamachine.com%2FWireless_visa_machine.com.jpg&hash=3ad6af90850bd1a63325722dd63d2ea125fd110a)
The one in the picture is a fancy one as it allows to put your signature in the window too. The ones our restaurants use simply print out slips of paper on which you sign (in case of a classic credit card) or you simply enter the PIN number by using the keyboard.
Pin won't widely use in the USA for a good long time since the networks make more money when customer sign then when they use a PIN.
Quote from: Brazen on March 24, 2010, 05:57:09 AM
They don't have chip and PIN in half the world yet Mart. Despite having used credit cards in Hong Kong, mainland China and a lot of New Europe, the only place abroad I've had my credit card abused is the good old US of A :bleeding:
You can still have a mobile device that prints a receipt that needs signing at the table, even without using PIN, and PIN can be used on magnetic strip cards too :)
V
Do they tip in HK?
Quote from: starbright on March 24, 2010, 08:15:13 AM
Do they tip in HK?
In a UK way, not a US way, i.e. round up the bill or taxi fare etc. or a 10%-ish service charge is automatically added to a bill.
Quote from: Martinus
Besides, I'm surprised Hong Kong is so backwards - pretty much every credit card accepting restaurant in Poland these days has mobile terminals, so the waiter comes with it to your table and you pay with the card there. And if it doesn't, you always accompany them to wherever the terminal is.
Same thing in Portugal.
Also, even when we had carbon, we'd always follow the waiter - no way would anyone here ever let his/her credit card leave his/her sight.
It's very simple, really. No bill before me in the table, no credit card given to the waiter.
Don't understand what all this fuss is about.
I use only banknotes, and spare coins for the tip :oldstyle:
L.
Quote from: starbright on March 24, 2010, 08:15:13 AM
Do they tip in HK?
Not really. Every restaurant adds 10% to the bill (it's stated in all menus). Round up to the nearest dollar. If you are really really happy, add US$1-3.
Quote from: Martim Silva on March 24, 2010, 08:43:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus
Besides, I'm surprised Hong Kong is so backwards - pretty much every credit card accepting restaurant in Poland these days has mobile terminals, so the waiter comes with it to your table and you pay with the card there. And if it doesn't, you always accompany them to wherever the terminal is.
Same thing in Portugal.
Also, even when we had carbon, we'd always follow the waiter - no way would anyone here ever let his/her credit card leave his/her sight.
It'll be very odd for anyone to follow the waiter. I've never seen anyone does it here.
Quote from: sbr on March 23, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
I would NEVER EVER give my card to anyone who didn't actually give me my food unless they gave me an actual bill, which I would read before I gave them my card. If I somehow ended up at a place where one server was waiting on 10-20 tables at lunchtime and I had to leave 10 minutes ago I suppose it could be possible, but still unlikely.
I think we are at a cultural/lifestyle divide here. :)
Dont know about that. I have given my credit card to another restaurant employee when I see my server is busy and I am in a hurry to get going.
Particularly when I am paying for a business lunch. The last thing I want to do is keep my guest waiting because I want to wait for the bill before giving my credit card.
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2010, 05:37:12 AM
Besides, I'm surprised Hong Kong is so backwards - pretty much every credit card accepting restaurant in Poland these days has mobile terminals, so the waiter comes with it to your table and you pay with the card there. And if it doesn't, you always accompany them to wherever the terminal is.
You think having to follow waiters isnt backwards?
Police is now saying that there are several cases of temp. restaurant workers stealing cash. Sometimes the restaurant bill can be really high, and the customers will pay in cash. The temporary worker gets the cash, which can be many times his monthly salary, and instead of going to the cashier, just runs away.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 24, 2010, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2010, 05:37:12 AM
Besides, I'm surprised Hong Kong is so backwards - pretty much every credit card accepting restaurant in Poland these days has mobile terminals, so the waiter comes with it to your table and you pay with the card there. And if it doesn't, you always accompany them to wherever the terminal is.
You think having to follow waiters isnt backwards?
:D
Mono's English grammar has suddenly got so bad I'm worried he's been replaced :(
Quote from: Brazen on March 24, 2010, 11:20:23 AM
Mono's English grammar has suddenly got so bad I'm worried he's been replaced :(
It's the pollution. :yes:
That's one reason to go old school and pay cash. It's better to be out a few dollars cash, than your CC limit.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 24, 2010, 12:14:19 PM
That's one reason to go old school and pay cash. It's better to be out a few dollars cash, than your CC limit.
If you lose your cash its gone. If someone fraudulently uses your credit card its not your problem.
There's the bureaucracy of phoning the credit card company and obtaining a replacement card, losing a smallish amount of cash is probably preferable.
This is the latest?
They did this on the first series of the Real Hustle I'm sure.
Its just a variation of the REALLY old one of dressing as a valet and having someone hand their car to you.
I always pay cash anyway. I just don't 'get' paying by card so much I guess. I can't explain it at all.
For the record, I just got back the 1000 euro they stole from my card online in January.
Martinus, would Poland be willing to share its technology with the US ?
Restaurants in the US focus on service, as they should. I need to see a bill on my table before any card changes hands. If I don't, their tip is gone.
I'm brutal.
I don't really see the need for mobile units.
I read the bill before handing over the car. Drove S nuts on Sunday, because I thought something was incorrect and insisted on pulling out the calculator and double-checking. :P
Quote from: garbon on March 24, 2010, 02:32:05 PM
I don't really see the need for mobile units.
Cloning.
Quote from: Brazen on March 24, 2010, 11:20:23 AM
Mono's English grammar has suddenly got so bad I'm worried he's been replaced :(
I suck :blush:
Quote from: garbon on March 24, 2010, 02:32:05 PM
I don't really see the need for mobile units.
That became widely used A for the convenience of the customer, B so you do not have to let your card out of sight and C most important, because there was a rash of cards being swiped/copied in the back room when you paid, only to be cloned unto a new card weeks later and then abused.
V
I only eat at Taco Bell.
Quote from: Valdemar on March 25, 2010, 02:57:22 AM
That became widely used A for the convenience of the customer, B so you do not have to let your card out of sight and C most important, because there was a rash of cards being swiped/copied in the back room when you paid, only to be cloned unto a new card weeks later and then abused.
V
Perhaps America needs to bring civilization to Europe.
Quote from: garbon on March 25, 2010, 10:27:34 AM
Perhaps America needs to bring civilization to Europe.
Cloning/skimming happens a lot here, too. Though usually it seems to happen at gas stations.
What gets me is the relatively large numbers of people who are still susceptible to phishing-- especially phishing via SMS ('smishing').
Gee, I got this random text message telling me to call a # I'm not familiar with & give them my card & PIN numbers. I'm sure I can trust them since they are identifying themselves as "your bank". :frusty: