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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Viking on April 08, 2009, 10:34:30 AM

Title: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Viking on April 08, 2009, 10:34:30 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7988169.stm

Apparently paying for sex is now older than humanity itself... Slargos can now consider himself as part of a long tradition of paying nigerians for sex.

QuoteChimpanzees exchange meat for sex
By Victoria Gill
Science reporter, BBC News

Chimpanzees enter into "deals" whereby they exchange meat for sex, according to researchers.

Male chimps that are willing to share the proceeds of their hunting expeditions mate twice as often as their more selfish counterparts.

This is a long-term exchange, so males continue to share their catch with females when they are not fertile, copulating with them when they are.

The team describe their findings in the journal PLoS One.

Cristina Gomes and her colleagues, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, studied chimps in the Tai Forest reserve in Ivory Coast.

She and her team observed the animals as they hunted, and monitored the number of times they copulated.

"By sharing, the males increase the number of times they mate, and the females increase their intake of calories," said Dr Gomes.

"What's amazing is that if a male shares with a particular female, he doubles the number of times he copulates with her, which is likely to increase the probability of fertilising that female."

High value

Meat is important for the animals' diet because it is so high in protein. Since female chimps do not usually hunt, "they have a hard time getting it on their own," explained Dr Gomes.



The "meat for sex hypothesis" had already been proposed to explain why male chimps might share with females.

But previous attempts to record the phenomenon failed, because researchers looked for direct exchanges, where a male shared meat with a fertile female and copulated with her right away.

Dr Gomes' team took a new approach. In a previous study, she had found that grooming exchange - where the animals take it in turns to groom each other - happens over long periods, she related. "So we thought, why not meat and sex?

"We looked at chimps when they were not in oestrus, this means they don't have sexual swellings and aren't copulating."

"The males still share with them - they might share meat with a female one day, and only copulate with her a day or two later."

Dr Gomes thinks that her findings could even provide clues about human evolution.

She suggests this study could lay the foundations for human studies exploring the link between "good hunting skills and reproductive success".

"This has got me really interested in humans," she said. "I'm thinking of moving on to working with hunter-gatherers."

Michael Gurven from the University of California in Santa Barbara studies human behaviour in communities of hunter-gatherers in South America.

He told BBC News that the direct link between success in hunting and reproduction highlighted by this study could "help in our thinking about humans".

Professor Gurven, who was not involved in this study, added that the nature of this exchange of meat for sex is "kind of like pair bonding in humans, because it's long-term.

"This highlights something we haven't seen in chimps before."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/7988169.stm

Published: 2009/04/07 23:20:39 GMT
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
The chimps in Stockholm zoo don't do that of course.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:35:43 AM
Considering most mammal males beat the shit out of each other to win mates, using a more peaceful route just makes sense for all involved.  The females get stuff and the males get to not constantly be in combat.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Malthus on April 08, 2009, 10:36:11 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
The chimps in Stockholm zoo don't do that of course.

Ask the Brain. He'd know.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
The chimps in Stockholm zoo don't do that of course.

Socialist chimp sex?  To each according to his needs?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: DGuller on April 08, 2009, 10:37:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:35:43 AM
The females get stuff and the males get to not constantly be in combat.
I would think that the former owner of the meat would beg to differ.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:43:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
The chimps in Stockholm zoo don't do that of course.

Socialist chimp sex?  To each according to his needs?

It's illegal to pay for sex in Sweden.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Viking on April 08, 2009, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:43:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
The chimps in Stockholm zoo don't do that of course.

Socialist chimp sex?  To each according to his needs?

It's illegal to pay for sex in Sweden.

I didn't know they banned alimony?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2009, 10:49:00 AM
Surely that's paying for not having sex though  :unsure:
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: charliebear on April 08, 2009, 10:52:54 AM
Penguins also have a "pay for sex" system, but it involves the male giving rocks to the female to help her build her nest.

Who knew?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: charliebear on April 08, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 10:35:43 AM
Considering most mammal males beat the shit out of each other to win mates, using a more peaceful route just makes sense for all involved.  The females get stuff and the males get to not constantly be in combat.

I think it's a fine system.  No need to change anything.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Josquius on April 08, 2009, 11:00:15 AM
Not so sure I'd say its entirely prostitution, I see more of an analogy with marriage (albeit polygamous)
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: DGuller on April 08, 2009, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: charliebear on April 08, 2009, 10:52:54 AM
Penguins also have a "pay for sex" system, but it involves the male giving rocks to the female to help her build her nest.

Who knew?
You need to give rocks to get your rocks off?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 11:08:54 AM
Quote from: charliebear on April 08, 2009, 10:52:54 AM
Penguins also have a "pay for sex" system, but it involves the male giving rocks to the female to help her build her nest.

Who knew?

What a coincidence I gave a female a rock also.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex. 
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.

Paleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Valmy on April 08, 2009, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PMPaleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:

It is amazing what one can do with only a few partial skeletons.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Malthus on April 08, 2009, 01:02:52 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.

Paleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:

Hey, just because PALEONTOLOGISTS tend to do it when *they* are looking for a mate, doesn't mean that the dinosaurs they study did it.

;)
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 08, 2009, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.
Says who?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 02:50:06 PM
Indeed, this seems like something Tim would be an expert on. :cool:
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Ed Anger on April 08, 2009, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 02:50:06 PM
Indeed, this seems like something Tim would be an expert on. :cool:

How many Dinosaurs could a whore service a night?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Malthus on April 08, 2009, 03:42:11 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2009, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 02:50:06 PM
Indeed, this seems like something Tim would be an expert on. :cool:

How many Dinosaurs could a whore service a night?

Dinosaur Whores.

Band name!
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.

Paleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:
I don't know why it is surprising at all; some of these were huge, mostly solitary creatures whose individual territory would be absolutely huge, facilitating an incredible sense of smell and general hostility to encroachment on turf.  Is it that surprising that one dinosaur would bribe another to venture into new ground, or possibly even to find one?
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: HVC on April 08, 2009, 04:42:03 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.

Paleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:
I don't know why it is surprising at all; some of these were huge, mostly solitary creatures whose individual territory would be absolutely huge, facilitating an incredible sense of smell and general hostility to encroachment on turf.  Is it that surprising that one dinosaur would bribe another to venture into new ground, or possibly even to find one?
We have plenty of animals now that have vast territories and hate other of their species. They manage to mate just fine without food bribes. Incredible sense of smell works against your theory, as then the males would easily smell a receptive female bordering his territory and venture in. In fact, often in territorial loner animlas the males venture in, not the other way around.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: katmai on April 08, 2009, 05:21:53 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Male Raptors would kill a large dinosaur, leave its carcass out and wait for a female to approach, with the carcass as a bribe.  Its probably about as old as sex.

Paleontologists have managed to find evidence suggesting that? :blink:
I don't know why it is surprising at all; some of these were huge, mostly solitary creatures whose individual territory would be absolutely huge, facilitating an incredible sense of smell and general hostility to encroachment on turf.  Is it that surprising that one dinosaur would bribe another to venture into new ground, or possibly even to find one?

What in god's name are you smoking, nothing you are typing here makes much sense.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Neil on April 08, 2009, 05:32:37 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
I don't know why it is surprising at all; some of these were huge, mostly solitary creatures whose individual territory would be absolutely huge, facilitating an incredible sense of smell and general hostility to encroachment on turf.  Is it that surprising that one dinosaur would bribe another to venture into new ground, or possibly even to find one?
No matter how hostile, animals manage to mate without food bribes.  Also, I think the relative stupidity of Velociraptor might preclude such advanced behavior.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: MadImmortalMan on April 08, 2009, 08:45:56 PM
I'm just glad this thread wasn't about senior citizen prostitutes.  :x
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Phillip V on April 09, 2009, 12:30:47 AM
I give women my meat.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Habbaku on April 09, 2009, 12:47:11 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on April 09, 2009, 12:30:47 AM
I give women my meat.

Unless they look at you.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Caliga on April 09, 2009, 06:59:08 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2009, 04:14:40 PMI don't know why it is surprising at all; some of these were huge, mostly solitary creatures whose individual territory would be absolutely huge, facilitating an incredible sense of smell and general hostility to encroachment on turf.  Is it that surprising that one dinosaur would bribe another to venture into new ground, or possibly even to find one?

No, it's not surprising.  What's surprising is that there is, as you claim, evidence that this was the case. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Ed Anger on April 09, 2009, 07:02:30 AM
Those dinosaurs also turned into Armenians.
Title: Re: The worlds oldest profession just got a bit older
Post by: Caliga on April 09, 2009, 08:15:03 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 09, 2009, 07:02:30 AM
Those dinosaurs also turned into Armenians.

Chixculub committed genocide.  ADMIT IT OBAMA  :mad: